Draigowing for a newb

[Madmaardigan]

Hello,

 

I've just recently gotten into 40k and have chosen the grey knights for my army, I would like a very cut and past version of the greknights draigowing list as a starting point so I may play it and change it to my play style after the fact. as I understand it the basic list composition is:

 

HQ

 

1x Kaldor Draigo

1x Librarian

 

Troop choice

 

10x Paladins (squad 1)

5x Paladin (squad 2)

 

and then either some a venerable dreadnought, or a dreadknight for support.

 

What I'm asking though is what would be the most ball parked weapons composition for my guys i.e.

 

10x Palidins (squad 1) should have;

2 hammers

2 psycannons

4 halberds

1 brotherhood banner

3 falchions

etc...

 

Thanks for any help on the matter

[thade]

I'm sure Paladin Nurglez and some of the others will have more refined comments for you, but in general you'll very likely want to max out on Psycannons (i.e. take four of them in a ten man) and you probably want to consider taking a Warding Stave on a Paladin so he can soak melee challenges in cases where you want Draigo and/or the Librarian to work the unit instead. You are few and mechanized lists are many. :) Make sure you have enough ranged punch to account for their constant attempts to avoid melee.

[sirk]

In 6th, I think Coteaz is always a better choice than a Librarian in a Draigowing. The Libby is still a great choice in a different army (he can protect a lot of units with Shrouding and Sanctuary), but Coteaz is both cheaper and more efficient in this list.

 

There a topic just now that compares him to a OM inquisitor, the other viable choice (even him, better than a Libby in my opinoin ^^).

 

Oh, and yes, always max the psycannons, and also mc them, if you find the points ;)

[nurglez]

I'm quite a fan of a "normal" inquisitor with terminator armour, psycannon and prescience (primaris psychic power, reroll to hit for a squad for the game turn). Coteaz is a bit of an overused special character (yeah so is Draigo but lets only add one of them). Also I like the theme of all models in terminator armour if possible.

 

I rarely use a libby because he was too effective vs my friends (sanctuary made them cry back in 5th).

 

For me, my core is Draigo, 15 pallies (with 5 points for falchions as I have one modeled) and 6 psycannons. That is the minimum I want or advise for a draigowing. at 1500 points that leaves 275 points, enough to make an army your own :D

 

I love DK's, some people swear by psyrifle's, or add in a storm raven or some strikes/interceptors. Add what you like the look off, as that is what you will be playing with :D

[ChaosPhoenix]

I agree with nurglez. He's usually right about everything ;-). Another thing is Sanctuary isn't as evil as it used to be, because you now get an armorsave against dangerous terrain tests. But it still slows you down which leads to being minced meat - I mean purified (or purell) by our psycannons.

[thade]

I rarely use a libby because he was too effective vs my friends (sanctuary made them cry back in 5th).

It's nice to see a review like this after seeing the Librarian taking so much flak of late. <3

[nurglez]

I rarely use a libby because he was too effective vs my friends (sanctuary made them cry back in 5th).

It's nice to see a review like this after seeing the Librarian taking so much flak of late. <3

 

well, that was only half the reason. Mine clocked in at around 200+ points, meaning I'd have to lose my DK or a squad of paladins for him, compromising my play style too much. I used him mainly at 2000 points.

 

Speaking of play style, I've had a few games with my old chaos army recently, and I've lost a few (not used to losing after playing Draigowing!), which is why Draigo and friends are my tournament army. I'm sure my friends are very sick of seeing terminator armor across the table from them!

 

The other bit of advice I have is to play to the mission, several games I've lost 7-10 paladins in the first turn and still managed to draw or even win, by playing to the mission (I also find that losing more then half the model's in your army in the first turn can really help focus your mind :D ).

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

In 6th, I think Coteaz is always a better choice than a Librarian in a Draigowing. The Libby is still a great choice in a different army (he can protect a lot of units with Shrouding and Sanctuary), but Coteaz is both cheaper and more efficient in this list.

 

I fully agree and have switched over from using a Librarian to taking Coteaz in 40k6. He is such a bargain for the points and I like to use special characters. :P

 

I just run 10 Paladins now in my 2000 point Draigowing army. I have four psycannons and combat squad them so one unit has all four psycannons - they go with Draigo and Coteaz (rerolling hits and directed shots combined is pretty darn potent). I run most of my Paladins with daemonhammers - they are a free upgrade and AP2... Versus other deathstar units with the 2+ armor save force weapons don't cut it anymore. Maybe a warding stave but I don't think they are mandatory anymore now since 2+ armor is so much better.

 

My army is fast since I'm using an LRC and Stormraven plus an NDK with a teleporter. It's a lot different than how I played them in 40k5 and overall I think the army is even more competitive now (depending on your own build). It's a very small army but very tough and hits like a tonne of bricks in the proverbial junk.

 

G :lol:

[RedemptionNL]

A question to the Draigowing vets that I've been wondering:

 

How to do deal with tough 2+ save units with good invulnerable save? My regular opponents often field Orks with Ghazghull Thraka in a KFF protected Battlewagon or Marines with at least one squad of TH/SS terminators in a Landraider, and other player is looking into starting a Deathwing army.

 

Now I've never played full Draigowing myself, usually picking mixed force army lists, but it seems like a fun list to occasionally play. All I need is another box of Terminators and a second Dreadknight.

 

So assuming a 2k 'Nurglez' type list with Draigo, OM Inquisitor, 1x 10 and 1x 5 Paladin squad and 2 PT HI Dreadknights, how would you deal with such lists? If you have a battle report somewhere, even better. :lol:

[sirk]

Well, the question is not how you deal with them, but how them will deal with you. Numbers at hand, once the two sides clash in a hand to hand combat, you will just outfight them. The 12 man deathstar deals around 50 attacks (when charged) that hit on a rerollable 3+ and wounds on a (ofter rerollable) 2+ and this is too much for any close combat unit, be it a terminator one or a gazzy and boys.

This was true in 5th and is even more true in 6th. In case of a single heavy weight (Gaz, Lysander, ..) now we can assign instant death strikes to Draigo and hit him with all the rest. More than this there is overwatch: while we are almost immune to it because of the 2 wounds and the characters' re-allocation, a terminator charge can have more than a loss to our, expecially if we manage to have it at full BS with counter-attack (here the better chances of rolling 2 psy powers).

At the top of it, paladins are characters, meaning we can target nasty models inside a bigger unit, and do it at I6 :lol:

My analysis take into consideration Coteaz, of course, because I think it is too good and too cheap not to play him, but even without him it doesn't change that much.

If you try to math-hammer it, you will understand what I mean.

 

The best way to deal with a paladin army is still to do it on a strategical approach. That is: is easier to win a game against paladins than to kill them :D

And this is even more true now: we are stronger, but we can hold only 1 objective.

[ChaosPhoenix]

A question to the Draigowing vets that I've been wondering:

 

How to do deal with tough 2+ save units with good invulnerable save? My regular opponents often field Orks with Ghazghull Thraka in a KFF protected Battlewagon or Marines with at least one squad of TH/SS terminators in a Landraider, and other player is looking into starting a Deathwing army.

 

Now I've never played full Draigowing myself, usually picking mixed force army lists, but it seems like a fun list to occasionally play. All I need is another box of Terminators and a second Dreadknight.

 

So assuming a 2k 'Nurglez' type list with Draigo, OM Inquisitor, 1x 10 and 1x 5 Paladin squad and 2 PT HI Dreadknights, how would you deal with such lists? If you have a battle report somewhere, even better. B)

 

I'm a Dark Angels player and how I lost my Terminators hasn't changed from 4th to 6th in general. Yes Plasma Shots and Battlecanons hurt. But most of the time I loose Terminators by rolling 1s. Force me to roll ones with a lot of shots and it's ok. Fortunatly Grey Knights are good at shooting a lot.

[nurglez]

A question to the Draigowing vets that I've been wondering:

 

How to do deal with tough 2+ save units with good invulnerable save? My regular opponents often field Orks with Ghazghull Thraka in a KFF protected Battlewagon or Marines with at least one squad of TH/SS terminators in a Landraider, and other player is looking into starting a Deathwing army.

 

Now I've never played full Draigowing myself, usually picking mixed force army lists, but it seems like a fun list to occasionally play. All I need is another box of Terminators and a second Dreadknight.

 

So assuming a 2k 'Nurglez' type list with Draigo, OM Inquisitor, 1x 10 and 1x 5 Paladin squad and 2 PT HI Dreadknights, how would you deal with such lists? If you have a battle report somewhere, even better. :)

 

The list you posted is my 1850 list, so there is still 150 points spare at 2k :lol:

 

I've only had 1 game vs massed 2+/3++, that was in 5th and I got totally destroyed (my deathstar with draigo got charged by a 5man squad with belial, and I think I killed 1 model while I lost 5-6 paladins, and then I fled), so I am apprehensive of facing a th/ss deathwing army again. Depending on the mission, I would try and gun them up at range and sacrifice squads to slow them down/hold them up. I normally use my DK's as my disposable troops, they rarely survive the game as they quite happily jump within assault range of landraiders/vindicators/demolishers/battle wagons or wipe out squads of lootas/scouts/pathfinders :)

 

Last time I fought Ghazghull I accepted his challenge with a normal paladin and focused on the squad he was in, eventually making him run away and then shooting him at range (pretty sure he isn't fearless :) ).

 

With the change to power weapons, I have very few ap2 weaponry in my force (apart from the 28 psycannon shots that might rend, the 2 dk's or my 4 daemon hammers). You do not want to get into assault with thunder hammer storm shield terminators, though that was the same in 5th. If I was facing deathwing again and rolled the power that forces your enemy to reroll saves I would probably keep that :D

[RedemptionNL]

Thraka's Waaagh! makes all non-fleeing friendly units Fearless, and gives Thraka a 2+ invulnerable save for the duration of the Waaagh!

[nurglez]

Aye, though he ran away after it wore off. I also find that popping his battlewagon and then charging him with a DK makes him pop his Waaagh before he's ready for it.

 

I was lucky that I had killed the nob in the squad with precision fire early that game, otherwise he could have challenged with the nob and let ghaz kill multiple paladins :cuss

[ChaosPhoenix]

Thraka's Waaagh! makes all non-fleeing friendly units Fearless, and gives Thraka a 2+ invulnerable save for the duration of the Waaagh!

 

If you're using Stormbolters & Autocannons 2++ isn't scarier than 2+, except for the rending shots.

[sirk]

I was lucky that I had killed the nob in the squad with precision fire early that game, otherwise he could have challenged with the nob and let ghaz kill multiple paladins ;)

 

It's not that easy for him. True, if both nob and Ghaz are alive, he can challenge with the nob (or with ghaz), but then the best strategy is just refuse. He will name one of your hammers, then you move Draigo the closest to Ghaz and, after just one pally dead, start soaking his attacks with him. If he names Draigo, even better, you do the same moves but instead of Draigo you have a hammer attacking, that will be deadlier once the 2++ is gone. The fight will last a couple of turns, but you won't lose more than a couple of Draigo wounds in it (2 combat phases as Ghaz will probably die before the 3rd, 7+5 attacks, 8 hit, 6,6 wounds, about 2 unsaved, even less with fnp).

 

All of this is possible because nothing prohibits the character that refused the challenge to be assigned wounds to, nor does he move in a different way or position in the fight. The best way to do it is to keep Draigo in 2nd line, so he can't engage him with a boy and you can move him just behind the pally that Ghaz has engaged. That one will be the first dead, but after him the closest will be Draigo, and, during consolidation he would move in base to base.

So, against orks and when the enemy charge is approaching, the best formation is:

 

P P P

P D P

....

 

 

Or somehint like that.

 

The nob is not a problem as you will probably instakill him with an halberd at I6 anyway.

 

And this is done without the staff (reason why I'm not playing it). If you also have the staff it is two times easier ;)

[nurglez]

if he challenged and I refused he could have picked Draigo to not attack couldnt he?

[sirk]

if he challenged and I refused he could have picked Draigo to not attack couldnt he?

Sure. I said he would have chosen one of your hammers not to attack, while he could have chosen Draigo indeed. Anyway, this doesn't change the result at all. Against Ghaz and Boyz, Draigo is just a paladin with 2 more attacks, you don't need him to deliver wounds. He is overkill against boyz and useless against the 2++. After the waag has gone, hammers will do the job better than him, or just pure number of attacks will do. You DO need him to soak Ghaz klaw hits and "this" your opponent can't stop in any way with challenges.

[thade]

To be fair, the assertion that an opponent would select a Paladin with a Hammer over Draigo as the nominated "go back there and QQ" model did seem a bit of a stretch to me. <3 When everything in the unit is one-shotting your Nobz on 2+, the guy that's a mountain of attacks really does seem like the bigger threat than a guy with three hammer swings at I1.

 

Why would Draigo ever deny a challenge? He's a challenge-eating machine, no?

[RedemptionNL]

Close combat characters a 2+ save and Eternal Warrior such as Thraka or Calgar have a pretty good chance now that his sword is only AP3.

[thade]

True enough. Seems a good justification for the 2++ Justicar/Paladin.

[sirk]

He could choose Draigo because of the 2 extra attacks or he could select a hammer because, waag gone, they are the most dangerous models to Ghaz. I have seen both choices taken.

By the way, when you have around 40 attacks that hit on a rerollable 3+, wound on a 2+ and concede no save, to lose 3 or 5 doesn't change so much at all.

 

But again, who he is gonna choose won't change a bit the course of that fight, as long as you can soak instadeath wounds with Draigo.

[nurglez]

We are getting slightly off topic here.

 

Summery: Draigowing is rather powerful vs most all comer lists, only certain unit's can really threaten paladins (instant death causing ap2 or lower hits). Apothecary's and brotherhood banners can be useful (though I don't use them), and the current look out sir rules really benefit a unit led by Draigo (especially if he's at the front).

 

I really need to get a tactica written up...

[bebe]

Interesting that no one has mentioned Karamazov. He is in all my Draigowing lists.

[nurglez]

The only Inquisitor I use is the one in terminator armour, as my "theme" is, well, terminators (disclaimer, DK's are terminators to me, even though they can sweeping advance, I guess its their long mecha legs that help them).

 

Technically, all Draigowing needs is draigo and some paladins. You can bring along strikes, GKT's, purifiers, interceptors or the other guys in the heavy slot that no one likes due to psyrifles being ZOMGPEWPEWPEW.

 

Karamazov is a bit of a weird one, but I do like the idea of an inquisitor marching to battle on a giant chair with legs, its just so grimdark :cuss