Brother Keyaetus Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 Hey there folks, stuck deciding which company to make my Dark Angels, I'd like to go sixth (epic number) but sadlyy thats a reserve force. Third is handy since the marking is easy to do, but I like the way the others such as fourth/fifth looks more like heraldry. Fourth company is tempting because its an even number, but it looks painful to paint and outta my league. So its a choice between third and fifth. Then something got me wondering, is one of the company masters for the Dark Angels master of the fleet, or is that role left for the supreme grand master? If it happens to be a company master, and someone knows, then happy days ill most likely make my company be the one who's master is the fleet guy. I just love space battles and stuff, looks epic. Bit of a rant, but cheers anyway! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/258908-dark-angels-fleet-master/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPK Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 I'm not sure we have any concrete fluff on that. We must assume we have a master of the fleet, but the Company Masters are not noted as filling those rolls that I'm aware of. Perhaps we could say they are members of the Inner Circle? Really I'm interested to see if there is an answer to this as well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/258908-dark-angels-fleet-master/#findComment-3147887 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cypher 102 Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 The apocalypse rulebook puts the Ultramarines 4th company captain as the master of the fleet. Knowing the Ultramarines that's probably written in the Codex Astartes. In the Black Library Ultramarines books Uriel Ventris as 4th company captain is recognized as master of the fleet but defers command of the fleet to the more experienced Lord Admiral Lazlo Tiberius. Fitting seeing as Ventris should be on the ground with his troops. So that's how the smurfs do it. As for the Dark Angels it's up the imagination of the players. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/258908-dark-angels-fleet-master/#findComment-3147941 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ajax Tlamunus Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 Some sources also indicated that the Dark Angels are considered a fleet-based chapter, which makes sense as we haven't had a homeworld in ten millennia and instead recruit from multiple worlds are remain even more highly mobile than most chapters. It is quite possible that every battle company Master is a "master of the fleet" for their own company. Most chapters control two or three Battle Barges -- which are designed to let up to three companies to deploy simultaneously -- the Dark Angels have five Battle Barges named in official sources (and the Rock itself is mobile). Most chapter's rely on a single Strike Cruiser -- which can carry up to one full company of Space Marines and their equipment -- and a number of escort craft to make up a fleet. We're probably one of the most powerful chapter fleets in the known universe. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/258908-dark-angels-fleet-master/#findComment-3147993 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Keyaetus Posted August 13, 2012 Author Share Posted August 13, 2012 Thanks guys, Ill just make it be my company master is an esteemed ship master (if thats the term, maybe its captain). Now is the hard part of trying to decide if I want 3rd or 5th company. Fun times! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/258908-dark-angels-fleet-master/#findComment-3147995 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grotsmasha Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 I say go for the Sixth if you like it, the reserve companies can be mobilized if necessary. Cheers, Jono Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/258908-dark-angels-fleet-master/#findComment-3147997 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Immolator Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 We're probably one of the most powerful chapter fleets in the known universe. We and the templars, i have a hunch that we have more strike cruisers than most and aircraft of DA design is on battlefleet gothic. Page 14 of the codex makes note of high ranking officers such as the Grand Masters (no i didnt make a plural mistake) of the fleet. They exist but at what capacity and weather they are inner circle, deathwing or both we can only guess. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/258908-dark-angels-fleet-master/#findComment-3147999 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Kovash Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 There's no reason why you can't create two masters for your army and change back and forth. Since you can field more than one HQ, you can designate one as master of the fleet and build up a background story for each of them. Given the new warlord rules in sixth Ed, having your HQ be master of the fleet sounds like a very cool idea. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/258908-dark-angels-fleet-master/#findComment-3148375 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Semper Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 First off why do you dismiss the 6th? Do you want all your marines to come from a single Company? If you do fine, you got to choose 3-5. However the 6th has fairly easy markings and you can always use additional squads from other reserve companies under the command of the 6th Master. I really look forward to add some 9th Comp Devastators in my Consecrators Force (6th Comp. btw) and some assault squads from 8th that also have a fairly straight forward markings... Also have you considered making a Successor? In tha case you can use the DA markings as they are, or change colors or make your own markings altogether... As regards the Master of the Fleet it is unclear as to who bears that title. Undoubtedly there will be a Master and probably a Battle Company Master that doubles as a Fleet Mater much like the Codex Chapters (BAs too) but as to who he is, it is unclear. It could be that the Master of the Fleet or any other similar Chapter-wide titles are not fixed to a Master of a specific Company but rotate, taking into account each officer's inclination. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/258908-dark-angels-fleet-master/#findComment-3148419 Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPK Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 I like that idea that being so fleet based, the Company Masters are all masters of their own fleets. As noted their is other "grand masters", so perhaps there actually could be a Grand Master of the Fleet who answers only to the Supreme Grand Master himself and allocates all the fleet assets to their Company Masters as he sees fit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/258908-dark-angels-fleet-master/#findComment-3148769 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Immolator Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 The codex refers them as support staff though along side the masters of: Recruits, Watch and the Victuallers. So i would doubt that a duality in roles exists. I would stress a quess that since we are a fleet based chapter the master(s) of the fleet, is (are) an individual(s) reserved for that specific role. The Victuallers note is an interesting one. I found in wiki that victualler is a term referring to more or less a grocer. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/258908-dark-angels-fleet-master/#findComment-3148944 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isiah Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 The Victuallers note is an interesting one. I found in wiki that victualler is a term referring to more or less a grocer. Well certainly in the pre-Victorian British Army they were responsible for procuring food for men and fodder for horse. And just to note they could be civilian contractors rather then serving officers. Anyway I'd like to think that the Master of the Fleet was a separate Inner Circle Grand Master, as the task is very speciailised and would necessitate time away from the front lines supervising readiness and maintenance etc of the fleet – rather than a Company Master who is better leading his company in battle – but that's just me :eek. I never really bought into that duality leadership thing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/258908-dark-angels-fleet-master/#findComment-3149016 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Immolator Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 That would be my interpretation too bar the inner-circle thing. The pasage in the dex seems to suggest (not confirm) that the support staff are not inner circle. Who knows? Perhaps the next codex will tell us for sure. Well certainly in the pre-Victorian British Army they were responsible for procuring food for men and fodder for horse. And just to note they could be civilian contractors rather then serving officers. Perhaps this opens a window for the thought out themes of chapter serfs preforming 'duties' outside of the chapter undercover? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/258908-dark-angels-fleet-master/#findComment-3149025 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isiah Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 That would be my interpretation too bar the inner-circle thing. Well we know they are all ranked as Grand Masters [of the Fleet, of the Watch, of Recruits, and of the Arsenal], and all Grand Masters are in the Inner Circle. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/258908-dark-angels-fleet-master/#findComment-3149049 Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPK Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 That would be my interpretation too bar the inner-circle thing. Well we know they are all ranked as Grand Masters [of the Fleet, of the Watch, of Recruits, and of the Arsenal], and all Grand Masters are in the Inner Circle. Oh right, that is based on the fact that the following are equals in organization between C:SM and C:DA? C:SM=C:DA Captain = Master Master = Grand Master Chapter Master = Supreme Grand Master EDIT: Or maybe not? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/258908-dark-angels-fleet-master/#findComment-3149618 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Blaire Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 Oh right, that is based on the fact that the following are equals in organization between C:SM and C:DA? C:SM=C:DA Captain = Master Master = Grand Master Chapter Master = Supreme Grand Master EDIT: Or maybe not? Don't think so. It's based on the fact that they are specifically noted as "Grand Masters of the Fleet, the Arsenal, Recruits and the Watch." C:DA 4th Ed, pg 14. Then on the next page (the Chapter Organization chart), under the Inner Circle heading it notes "Grand Masters". That says to me that these positions, as Grand Masters, are part of the Inner Circle. Perhaps this opens a window for the thought out themes of chapter serfs preforming 'duties' outside of the chapter undercover? I personally definitely think this would be going on, but without the serfs being given a clue as to why exactly they are performing said duties. However, the Grand Masters serving in support roles are specifically noted as Space Marines. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/258908-dark-angels-fleet-master/#findComment-3150345 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isiah Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 Don't think so. It's based on the fact that they are specifically noted as "Grand Masters of the Fleet, the Arsenal, Recruits and the Watch." C:DA 4th Ed, pg 14. Then on the next page (the Chapter Organization chart), under the Inner Circle heading it notes "Grand Masters". That says to me that these positions, as Grand Masters, are part of the Inner Circle. This. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/258908-dark-angels-fleet-master/#findComment-3150373 Share on other sites More sharing options...
skink Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 Third is handy since the marking is easy to do, but I like the way the others such as fourth/fifth looks more like heraldry. Fourth company is tempting because its an even number, but it looks painful to paint and outta my league. So its a choice between third and fifth. I have just gone through this decision process as well, and settled on 5th. 3rd was dismissed as, like you, I wanted something a bit more... established. And 4th was booted as there was no way I could do the wee chequer boards. Maybe a micro-pen would do the trick. The 5th badge was pretty easy; a filled circle of Dheneb Stone, then a cross using black. Fill in the segments with black and green apprpriately. I think in retrospect it would look better having a black border, but I can't work out whether it would be better to paint a black border, draw a black border with a micro-pen, or paint a filled black circle first, and then lay a smaller Dheneb circle on top to create the effect of a black border. Time for some expertimenting. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/258908-dark-angels-fleet-master/#findComment-3150407 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoebus Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 Regarding Victuallers and their unspecified role... I'd like to point out it may be something much more complex (and interesting/heroic) than simply dealing with provisions. Case in point, 40k Librarians have virtually nothing to do with what real-world librarians get into. :blink: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/258908-dark-angels-fleet-master/#findComment-3150446 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Blaire Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 BTW, where is the Victuallers comment, because I read through page 14 a couple times this morning and didn't see it. I'll agree with Phoebus though, I would look at it as something named that encompassing more than just provisions/groceries. Did it take the place of the Grand Master of the Arsenal? That's what it appears to me to be a case of, from Brother Immolator's wording. I've always pictured the Grand Master of the Arsenal as the head of the galaxy's most complex S-4 (military Logistics/Supply) and possibly S-6 (military Communications/IT-specifically as it relates to equipment and not necessarily comms/IT security) shops in the galaxy, responsible for getting all the material needed for any force application where and when it's needed. Similarly, Grand Master of the Watch indicates to me he probably incorporates the functions of S-2 (Intel/Security/Information Ops) and security functions of S-6 (such as maintaining the security/encryption protocols of all communications devices used by the Chapter and Chapter operatives/moles), plus possibly being the S-3/S-5 (Operations and Civil Military Ops/Planning) for all garrison units on Chapter emplacements. Fleet and Recruits are possibly the most cut and dried, I'd think. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/258908-dark-angels-fleet-master/#findComment-3150474 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cactus Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 BTW, where is the Victuallers comment, because I read through page 14 a couple times this morning and didn't see it. The first sentence of the third paragraph. I think that whole paragraph indicates that those roles the Codex Astartes assigns to company captains (such as Master of the Fleet, Master of Recruits etc) are not given to our company Masters. Instead they're taken by a Grand Master of the Inner Circle who sits outside the company structure. It keeps each company from seeing too much of the big picture. Which is a good idea if you don't want an uninitiated company master asking questions like "Why do we maintain this listening post?" or "What happened to that prisoner you had me transport across the galaxy?". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/258908-dark-angels-fleet-master/#findComment-3150638 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Blaire Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Oh damn, LOL, I just kept completely breezing over that part and going directly to the Grand Masters descriptions. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/258908-dark-angels-fleet-master/#findComment-3150825 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator Stobz Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Victuallers, mmmm chicken. An army marches on it's stomach (makes for slow going and dirty shirts though :D). It makes this guy super important for a Chapter without dedicated Agriworlds etc. Interesting that afaik we are the only Chapter with one mentioned. s EDIT: OT; go on mix it up, choose a detachment from the different reserve companies Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/258908-dark-angels-fleet-master/#findComment-3150832 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDoc Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Interesting that afaik we are the only Chapter with one mentioned. *cough* Codex: Space Marines: p. 16, last paragraph, penultimate line; p. 17, under the 7th Company, "Captain Ixion, Chief Victualler". *cough* Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/258908-dark-angels-fleet-master/#findComment-3150872 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator Stobz Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Need some cough medicine?;) No need to feel bad about correcting me if I am wrong, I make tonnes of mistakes throughout my life it's a great way to learn. Esp with dexes I don't frequently use. Thanks for the info. :cuss stobz Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/258908-dark-angels-fleet-master/#findComment-3150954 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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