Relic Blades in 6th edition.

[Gawain Veteris]

Power weapons have been changed in 6th edition. They can't just cut through armour like butter any more depending on which kind it is. Power mauls are the new anti tank melee weapon and power axes are the last power blade able to cut through 2+ (at the cost of initiative). I do have a question though;

 

A relic blade's attacks are resolved at S6 but are still power weapons. C:SM doesn't specify what form the power weapon has to take so it could be a maul or an axe which by merit of taking that form have additional strength values.

 

I can't find anything which suggests it's not accumulative. If it is accumulative then Relic Power Mauls can be S8 which matches a power fist in average marine hands but it's not 'unwieldy' so you're striking at initiative order. Further, as you're striking at initiative order and it's got the 'concussive' attribute any wounds you cause which are saved by armour or whatever strike at initiative 1 for the rest of the turn. Relic mauls then are striking at minimum S6, maybe S8 in initiative order. Only draw backs are price and lack of ap potential.

 

I reckon it's a good trade off though. Against MEQ were talking wounding on 2+ at initiative order and even if they save they're not striking til the end. If you place your relic maul well you can slow down characters, maximise your bodyguard's effectiveness by forcing special cc weapons to attack last. I'd pay 10 points to have a 'power fist' strength weapon at initiative 5 in the hands of a captain or master.

 

*Edit* Finally, forgot to mention that with a 'Relic Power Maul' you'd be instant killing T4 and below characters/standard models with S8 unsaved wounds. I reckon despite the low AP 'RPMs' (Relic Power Mauls) would get lots of character kills as players will be more open to taking armour saves. How many times has 2+ failed a terminator? I look forward to giving this a try.

 

What do you guys think of the power weapon changes? and the possibility of relic power mauls?

[dswanick]

Relic "Blades" are Unusual Power Weapons. S6, AP3 regardless of the appearance.

[thade]

Last edition a "Relic Blade" was also not defined upon what brand of weapon it was...and people used axes, staves, glaives, swords, etc. all to represent them. The same should hold true now. <3

[Jimmy Carmine]

The digital codex has it as S: +2 AP: 3

[Gawain Veteris]

dswanick: Is the 'Unusual Power weapon' characteristic in the codex or the 6th ed rule book?

 

Thade: One can only hope that's true thade!

 

Jimmycarmine: This still leaves the question as to whether or not they're accumulative in strength as the relic blade's description is that it's a power weapon but of indeterminate form.

[dswanick]

The digital codex has it as S: +2 AP: 3

OK, and? That it has its own stat block which adds 2 to the wielders S and sets the weapons AP to 3 makes it an Unusual Power Weapon.

[Arthanor]

It is a power weapon with its own rules (+2S and two-handed), therefore it is an unusual power weapon, as described by the power weapon rules in the 6th Ed Rulebook. As such, it keeps its own rules and strikes at ap3, regardless of what it looks like.

[Gawain Veteris]

Ah. Cheers for the clarification Arthanor.

 

Nevertheless power mauls are a cheaper version of the relic blade which is concussive, just lower AP. What do you guys think about it as a power fist replacement for anti-tank?

 

Vanguard for example can all have power weapons. You could have a healthy mix. Power axes for termies, swords for marines, mauls for multiple wound models and tanks?

 

I think the versatile power weapon rules are great.

[Toasterfree]

IMHO i would rather have the relic blade as it is ap3. if you were facing all 4+ save armies then the maul would be worth it. but since the majority of all 40k played is 3+ saves you are better off going with the ap3

[DarkGuard]

Original rules question seems to be answered, and was answered long ago in a different thread. As this seems to be going the way of tactics, I'm booting this thread to Tactica Astartes where it'll get a better response.

[Captain Idaho]

AP3 is worth a lot, since it means heavy infantry can be disposed of by your characters before they strike.

[dswanick]

AP3 is worth a lot, since it means heavy infantry can be disposed of by your characters before they strike.

Umm, doesn't "heavy infantry" usually refer to TDA (2+)?

[Iron Father Ferrum]

AP3 is worth a lot, since it means heavy infantry can be disposed of by your characters before they strike.

Umm, doesn't "heavy infantry" usually refer to TDA (2+)?

 

Eh. It can, sometimes; depends on the person, I guess. For me, in 40K, heavy infantry has always been 3+ or 4+ armor, with light being 5+, 6+, or no armor, and TDA is in a class all its own since 2+ saves are, in terms of unit type, quite rare. But I can see your point.

[Captain Idaho]

Yeah as Space Marines players it's easy to forget just how durable our units are. Our infantry are heavy infantry, with Terminators being super-heavy.

 

Unless power armour is thought of as light armour? :eek

 

4+ saves are hard to quantify really. They are kind of heavy infantry but die so easily in the game. I suppose because only really heavy weapons ignore their save in games then that makes them heavy.

 

Anyway, if we consider our characters (generally the ones with access to Relic Blades) need to fight challenges and kill hard targets, then AP2 and AP3 becomes essential. The last thing I'd want is some Tau Battlesuit, Immortal or Wraith Guard unit to hold up my assault force because I brought weapons which couldn't defeat their armour, and we also see so many 3+ saves in the game it's nice to penetrate the majority of opponents' armour.

[The Emperor's Champion]

"Real Men Hull Tank" = 6+, -

Light Infantry = 5+

Medium Infantry = 4+

Heavy Infantry = 3+

Super-Heavy Infantry = 2+

 

But that's not really a complete way to look at it. You have to take into account the Toughness of the model and anything else that stands between Hits becoming Unsaved Wounds.

 

Thunderwolf Cavalry with T5 and a 3+ Save would be Super-Heavy Infantry.

A Necron Warrior with a 4+ Save and his Reanimation Protocols would be Heavy Infantry, but he'd initially go down to the same things a Space Marine Scout would.

 

 

 

It makes way more sense to categorize things according to how easily weapons will knock Wounds off of them, IMO:

GEQ - "Guard Equivalent" (things with T3 and a 5+ or 6+ Save, Imperial Guard, Catachans, Termagants, Hormagaunts, Eldar Guardians)

SEQ - "Scout Equivalent" (things with 4+ Saves, like Scouts, Storm Troopers, Firewarriors, Tau Drones, Necron Warriors, Servitors, Aspect Warriors)

MEQ - "Marine Equivalent" (things with T4 and 3+ Saves, like all of the various flavors of Space Marines, Necron Immortals, Shining Spears)

OEQ - "Ork Equivalent" (things with medium Toughness and low Saves, like Orks, Fenrisian Wolves, various Tyranids)

TEQ - "Terminator Equivalent" (things with medium Toughness and some of the best Saves in the game, like Terminators, Mega Armored Nobz, Lychguard, Phoenix Lords, Canoptek Wraiths)

 

And then there's a bunch of stuff in the "Other" category with Toughness and Save combos dramatically different from any of the above.

[Captain Idaho]

Well using TEC's list above, Relic Blades are great for smash MEQ's, particularly with a model able to use precision strikes and hit at higher initative than most models.

 

Though if you are using a Sergeant or equivilent to take on challenges there is an argument for using a super hidden power fist or axe in the form of an independent character, which does diminsh the value of Relic Blades a little.

 

Initiative striking is still important to me though understandedly it isn't the be all and end all of assaulting. The increased reslience of some units in assaults thanks to the challenge and power weapon rules means striking last isn't as crucial as striking hard.

 

Though I still don't want to assault models requiring AP2 weapons, preferring to shoot them first. As such, the Relic Blade fulfills a role Marines have no other access to; killing models at initiative with a high strength weapon that ignores most armour saves.

[ShadowHaunt]

Thunderwolf Cavalry with T5 and a 3+ Save would be Super-Heavy Infantry.

 

Sorry, I just have to point out, TWC would be Heavy Cavalry, not any form of Infantry. :D

[The Emperor's Champion]

Thunderwolf Cavalry with T5 and a 3+ Save would be Super-Heavy Infantry.

 

Sorry, I just have to point out, TWC would be Heavy Cavalry, not any form of Infantry. :D

*shrug* Mode of movement has no real impact on how hard they are to kill, so they still belong in the same category. :lol: