Angron's personality

[jeremy1391]

:) lies I say!

[Arachnid99]

Dorn is alive and will return to lead his true sons in the completion of the Eternal Crusade No Pity! No Remorse! No Fear! Imperator Vult!!!

[NemFX]

Two theories:

 

Either the Emperor needed another scapegoat/terror weapon a la Konrad Kurze

 

or

 

The Emperor assumed that giving Angron a legion of people dependent on him would force him to mellow out.

 

 

.. probably both.

[Arachnid99]

He's connected, he's the Emperors son, how many parents do you know who have complete horrors as kids but think the sun shines out of their bratty arses? Big E probably thinks Angrons just got a bit of a temper but he wouldn't really hurt a fly.

 

I'm sorry to quote myself but I think Big E not realising what a nutter his son is has some serious potential. I mean Big E is in cannon a horrible judge of character to so one more catastrophic mistake would hardly be pushing the bounds.

[Sublime Heresy]

I have to admit, for a super powerful demi-god the Emperor is just terrible at reading people. He would be atrocious at poker.

[Hyaenidae]

Buy a Dobermann puppy, a purebred; Noble, proud, handsome.

Keep it in a cage, Beat it daily, and feed it small scraps.

When it gets big enough, throw it into a dog fighting match.

If it survives, feed it food laced with steroids, and water laced with adreniline.

Keep throwing it into matches, until it kills at least a few hundred other dogs.

 

 

 

Now give it a hug.

 

 

You are the Emperor, the dog is Angron.

[jeremy1391]

Buy a Dobermann puppy, a purebred; Noble, proud, handsome.

Keep it in a cage, Beat it daily, and feed it small scraps.

When it gets big enough, throw it into a dog fighting match.

If it survives, feed it food laced with steroids, and water laced with adreniline.

Keep throwing it into matches, until it kills at least a few hundred other dogs.

 

 

 

Now give it a hug.

 

 

You are the Emperor, the dog is Angron.

 

That is a pretty accurate description.

[overloard]

Not really. Emperor hasn't done anything like that. He saved Angron's life, gave him legion to command and purpose to fulfill. And I'm sure he had other reasons to steal Angron from his little rebellion other than being jerk.

[Ubermensch Commander]

Not really. Emperor hasn't done anything like that. He saved Angron's life, gave him legion to command and purpose to fulfill. And I'm sure he had other reasons to steal Angron from his little rebellion other than being jerk.

 

This. Angron LOYALLY served the Emperor for decades to centuries, killing and obeying in this name. He used the Emperor's Legions to do it, at the behest of the Emperor, and in the name of the Imperium.

Emperor saved Angron from being murdered alongside his band of mentally damaged killers and raised him up to leading a legion of super warriors for a glorious cause, a chance to unify mankind and to topple ALL the tyrants of the galaxy, not just the ones who used Angron in the arena.

Yeah, Angron had rage issues, but it seemed like he channeled it toward better ends.

If aforementioned "dog" loyally obeys you for decades do you expect it to turn on you, in a rebellion lead by your FAVORED son? Unlikely.

[The_son_of_Dorn]

Every Primarch was to accomplish the Emperors ambitions for human re unification, can't be helped if some were more blood crazed than a starving Bear Grylls in an orphanage.

[Billuriye]

Emperor did a typical botch of job with Angron just as he did with Lorgar. You don't give an Astartes legion to a neural implanted super psycho. You kill it on sight.

[overloard]

It maybe slightly off-topic, but i have a speculation regarding why Emperor treated Angron the way he did. Few weeks ago i read someone on other forum noting that Angron's homeworld gives an impression of Khornate world, with all their gladiatorial combat traditions and whatnot. Also, in Buther's Nails it was hinted that Angron got his implants not due to bad luck, but as part of Khrone's scheme to "bind his soul to eightfold path". So I was thinking, maybe when Emperor discovered Angron's world, he realized that it was corrupted, and got really angry. However, he still wanted his primarch back, so he just snatched him away, hoping that whatever was done to him could still be undone.

[LaLongCarabine]

Not like the big E needs or deserves a defense here but I seem to recall a quote from him in outcast dead and keep in mind I'm paraphrasing.

 

"You can be either all powerful or all knowing but not both at the same time."

 

Guy is not infallible and we all know he was a poor judge of character when it came to his sons.

 

Personally I just hate Angron, I don't blame his implants or his upbringing, I blame him for being given a legion of incredible warriors and turning them into berserkers. Total F***ing Prick

[Apothecary Vaddon]

Not like the big E needs or deserves a defense here but I seem to recall a quote from him in outcast dead and keep in mind I'm paraphrasing.

 

"You can be either all powerful or all knowing but not both at the same time."

 

Guy is not infallible and we all know he was a poor judge of character when it came to his sons.

 

Personally I just hate Angron, I don't blame his implants or his upbringing, I blame him for being given a legion of incredible warriors and turning them into berserkers. Total F***ing Prick

I would like to see some fluff on pre-Angron WE, just for a comparison. Maybe by way of flashbacks, or something.

[Chaplain ChonkE]

ADB is bound to feed us some tasty morsels. Thanks for the awesome Curze stuff :(

 

I think looking at the Emperor as a loving and caring father might be a bit much. Not to say He does not care for his creations but in the end they are just that. Creations. What were they created for? War and destruction. Leading groups of supermen in epic bloodletting *looks at Angron's bio...* Yup. He checks out for leading a group of super-armored, hypermotivated/indoctrinated, hyperconditioned, genetically and surgically altered specifically for war into the most violent battlegrounds and conditions against foes that can kill with a look or blast you into so much atomic residue. Primarchs dont need to breathe (much), have nigh-impervious plot armor and can only die if you dont have a SC in the current C:SM. Sorry Hands ;)

 

Anyways, Angron is a test tube baby created by the baddest heretical techscions of Mars and the Emperor's genius. It took him hundreds of years to get this thing going and keep it safe. Generations of people worked on these guys and they were snatched out from under Big E's nose. That was a great scene in HR! Emperor pauses to make the decision which would likely crush and kill a mortal in its weight and failure and in that brief moment he doesnt fight it in hope that He may find them again. He has a purpose for His creations after all. So Angry Ron isnt exactly of the right cloth to be the next Praetor of Terra or Master of the 500 Worlds but when it comes to crushing skulls he might be the best of them all. The Emperor is going to throw his precious creation away after having his most important experiment be found on the etheric winds of the cosmos on some violent backwater He is going to subjugate and tax and levy? Especially for a group of barbaric slaves? Probably not. The Emperor isnt that nice even if His goals are the loftiest and most noble imaginable if you are a Human. Sorry Space Elves ;)

 

The Emperor probably didnt question that His creation was now a raging supernova of hatred and muscle who basically is now a engine of destruction. He is just happy He now has an engine of destruction that He can use as He wishes. His Big E'ness is a xenophobic racist, secular temple destroying atheist Crusader, forced/controlled/engineered evolutionist (hatred of 'non-standard' human forms) who is also the last hope of Humanity. He was also a terrible father/scientist. If Professor Utonium from the Powerpuff Girls was the Emperor there might be hope in the Grimdarkness of the future. Instead he acts more like I am Sam ("You never go full retard!"). Ultra-Chaos buffed Mojo Jojo with the power of stainguard versus Super-Robot Pysker Professor Utonium and his retinue of Supersoldier Children. I am going to sleep now :\

[Arachnid99]

I think looking at the Emperor as a loving and caring father might be a bit much. Not to say He does not care for his creations but in the end they are just that. Creations. What were they created for? War and destruction. Leading groups of supermen in epic bloodletting *looks at Angron's bio...* Yup. He checks out for leading a group of super-armored, hypermotivated/indoctrinated, hyperconditioned, genetically and surgically altered specifically for war into the most violent battlegrounds and conditions against foes that can kill with a look or blast you into so much atomic residue.

 

Except as we've discussed Angron really isn't that great a commander. His balls out, charge 'em with a chainsword style of command while effective is clearly depicted in fluff as leading to massive World Eater casualties. As someone else said he would be a much better Assault Squad leader than General.

 

Anyways, Angron is a test tube baby created by the baddest heretical techscions of Mars and the Emperor's genius. It took him hundreds of years to get this thing going and keep it safe. Generations of people worked on these guys and they were snatched out from under Big E's nose. That was a great scene in HR! Emperor pauses to make the decision which would likely crush and kill a mortal in its weight and failure and in that brief moment he doesnt fight it in hope that He may find them again. He has a purpose for His creations after all. So Angry Ron isnt exactly of the right cloth to be the next Praetor of Terra or Master of the 500 Worlds but when it comes to crushing skulls he might be the best of them all. The Emperor is going to throw his precious creation away after having his most important experiment be found on the etheric winds of the cosmos on some violent backwater He is going to subjugate and tax and levy? Especially for a group of barbaric slaves? Probably not. The Emperor isnt that nice even if His goals are the loftiest and most noble imaginable if you are a Human. Sorry Space Elves :)

 

Except Big E did get rid of two Primarchs. Considering he let Curze and Angron live they must have been pretty screwed up but his patience clearly wasn't endless.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

Considering he let Curze and Angron live they must have been pretty screwed up but his patience clearly wasn't endless.

 

But there you're drawing conclusions from zero data.

 

A. No one knows why the Second and Eleventh Legions were purged, so you can't imply that they were worse in some way than any other Primarch.

 

B. The Emperor knew his sons nature, so that he let Curze or Angron live merely means he saw them as effective tools.

Curze, for a time at least, managed to "cure" crime on his homeworld and Angron, without the gladiatorial implants, might have surpassed all others as a general. You never know.

 

Personally, I always like to think of Angron - in his earlier days - as suffering something similar in the way to how diseases like Alzheimer's can effect the memory; most of the time he might be lost in terrible rages but occasionally he is lucid and you see the "man" he might have been.

[Lord_Caerolion]

It's certainly how Angron has been portrayed in Aurelian, that you can still catch glimpses of the being he was supposed to be. It adds depth to his character to have that, that he was the broken Primarch. Sure, he's still a damned good warrior, but he could have been a planner to rival Guilliman, or a poet-general to rival Fulgrim, or anything else, and everyone who sees him has that nagging feeling in the back of their head, that he never could truly reach the potential of what he was supposed to be.

 

In fact, from what I remember, the Dornian Heresy has Angron remove the implants once he's discovered by the Emperor, casting aside the shackles of his once-oppressors, and becomes almost like Guilliman in capabilities.

[Chaplain ChonkE]

Except as we've discussed Angron really isn't that great a commander. His balls out, charge 'em with a chainsword style of command while effective is clearly depicted in fluff as leading to massive World Eater casualties. As someone else said he would be a much better Assault Squad leader than General.

Shame on you Arachnid! You are going to get your BT card pulled with such simpering talk of tactics and logistics! This is the Grim Darkness of the Future where there is only war. A fantasy realm where human cultures take trillions of casulaties and no one even blinks because it serves a greater victory and purpose. Trying to attribute current day tactics of minimization (which were laughable a few decades ago) to a period where collateral damage is not just accepted but sanctioned.....

 

Angron is the perfect leader for his Legion who were described as close-combat monsters even before being reunited with their Primarch. In fact Angron would be the ideal High Marshal of the Black Templars. The tactics and results of BT and WE victories often closely mirror the descriptions of anger, rage, mass bodies, heavy casulaties and costly victory (not that BT's ever win any battle mind you) when compared to each other.

 

I always imagined the missing two Primarch's to be a mime and a lawyer. Upon discovery the Emperor immediately purged all Imperial records of the shameful pair.

[Arachnid99]

Except as we've discussed Angron really isn't that great a commander. His balls out, charge 'em with a chainsword style of command while effective is clearly depicted in fluff as leading to massive World Eater casualties. As someone else said he would be a much better Assault Squad leader than General.

Shame on you Arachnid! You are going to get your BT card pulled with such simpering talk of tactics and logistics! This is the Grim Darkness of the Future where there is only war. A fantasy realm where human cultures take trillions of casulaties and no one even blinks because it serves a greater victory and purpose. Trying to attribute current day tactics of minimization (which were laughable a few decades ago) to a period where collateral damage is not just accepted but sanctioned.....

 

Angron is the perfect leader for his Legion who were described as close-combat monsters even before being reunited with their Primarch. In fact Angron would be the ideal High Marshal of the Black Templars. The tactics and results of BT and WE victories often closely mirror the descriptions of anger, rage, mass bodies, heavy casulaties and costly victory (not that BT's ever win any battle mind you) when compared to each other.

 

I don't know about your Templars but mine are based on the actual Knightly Orders of the European middle ages. Who despite the best efforts of Sergei Eisenstein weren't idiots. They were warrior monks motivated and driven by their faith but also battle hardened and experienced knights who were frequently tasked with acting as tutors and guides to secular Crusaders arriving from Europe. My Templars like nothing more than smiting heretics with roaring chainswords and the fires of hatred, hymns and litanies spilling from their lips; but they don't charge straight towards the enemy without any regard for tactics or common sense and get gunned down. They know they are judged in life for the evil they destroy and while they look forward to the day they die in the Emperors service, their wounds to the front and piles of dead heretics surrounding them, but they have no desire to get shot to pieces 50 meters from the enemies front line with their blades still clean.

 

Angrons mob aren't zealous Templar knights, they are raging psychopaths, they don't care whose blood is split, so long as it flows.

 

I always imagined the missing two Primarch's to be a mime and a lawyer. Upon discovery the Emperor immediately purged all Imperial records of the shameful pair.

 

That is officially my new favourite explanation.

[LaLongCarabine]

Not like the big E needs or deserves a defense here but I seem to recall a quote from him in outcast dead and keep in mind I'm paraphrasing.

 

"You can be either all powerful or all knowing but not both at the same time."

 

Guy is not infallible and we all know he was a poor judge of character when it came to his sons.

 

Personally I just hate Angron, I don't blame his implants or his upbringing, I blame him for being given a legion of incredible warriors and turning them into berserkers. Total F***ing Prick

I would like to see some fluff on pre-Angron WE, just for a comparison. Maybe by way of flashbacks, or something.

Story "After Desh'ea" shows Khârn, the bloodiest man of the 41st millenium as a level headed company captain prior to meeting Angron. Even after that Khârn was the voice of reason in the horus heresy novels when he appears. How's that for the massive negative changes Angron wrought upon his legion.

[Dammeron]

Alot of this discussion depends on whether or not you agree with the portrayal of Angron and the World Eaters in the HH fiction. Bear in mind, these are merely several author's interpretations of those concepts and characters. We already have quite significant divisions between how several legions are portrayed and operate with BL fiction. Take the Word Bearers, for example; as portrayed by James Swallow in Battle for the Abyss, they are moustache-twirling super villains, arrogant fools who can't even find a rampaging Berserker on their own ship. In ADB's The First Heretic, they are considered metaphysicians; intellectuals and philosophers seeking poetry and meaning in a universe that seems, superficially, pretty devoid of it. The Space Wolves too come in for some pretty diverse portrayals; up until Prospero Burns, every portrayal of the Space Wolves and Leman Russ is far from flattering; they come off as brutish, bellicose thugs who can't look past their own drunken prejudices and who fight like animals. In Prospero Burns, they are much more the archetypal "noble savages;" tribal warriors who evidence their own idiosyncratic warrior culture, that is at least as developed and considered as that of any other legion. What ferocity they bring to bear is measured and calculated; more akin to that deployed by the Blood Angels than the World Eaters.

 

Classic background states that Angron fell to Chaos through much more considered motivations than "KILL, KILL! MAIM, MAIM!" The Second Ed codex states that Angron had messianic delusions; that "...only he could save mankind from destruction." This is a far cry from what we are provided in HH fiction thus far.

 

That, of course, may change, as more focus is brought to bear on the World Eaters; it is entirely possible that there are hidden complexities or simply facets of character that have yet to be explored regarding Angron and his legion. As already stated, I have no doubt that Angron is quite intelligent in his own way; he has simply come to the conclusion that his chosen style of warfare is the most efficient. In many respects, his form of warfare is no less perverse and/or frivolous than that practised by more ornamental legions. Look at my own chosen favourites, Fulgrim and the Emperor's Children; they demonstrate a frippery and theatricality both in their aesthetics and style of warfare that I have no doubt is potentially as deleterious to the practicalities of warfare than Angron's "Charge is the only order worth remembering" approach.

[Arachnid99]

Well as Angron and the World Eaters are getting the A D-B treatment in Betrayer the odds are looking pretty good that the World Eaters will get a Prospero Burns-esque filling out.

[Rysaer]

I've always loved Angron, he's easily my favourite Primarch, because at face value he seems like a pretty predictable guy.

 

He's angry. He's always angry.

He likes to kill things. He's always killing things.

Doesn't feel like he needs to answer to anyone. He doesn't answer to anyone.

 

In reality he is a bit of an enigma, we know very little about him Pre-heresy or his upbringing, we don't know why the Emperor allowed him to control a legion or how someone so unhinged was able to keep a legion together for as long as he did (wasn't long I know but still.)

 

He has/had all the same abilties as any other Primarch, he could have become a great strategist or thinker, an artist or loremaster just like any of the others. The fact that he is so broken in primarch terms is what makes him so interesting, the thought of who he could have been or what he could have achieved makes for just as interesting a point as his downfall. I found this reflected really well in his appearances thus far, those small glimpses at the man he could have been in amongst that massive hulk of anger and blood. I've said it before and I'll say it again, he's very much 'The Hulk' in terms of character although slightly more insane.

 

What I've never agreed with in terms of the Emperor is this image of him as a father to the primarch's, his 'sons' were not created out of love or emotion, it was out of necessity, he couldn't have tackled the universe alone.

 

I understand for story terms it makes it more interesting but when it comes to the Emperor being their father I find it a bit ridiculous. He didn't go back out to find them out of the kindness of his heart or concern for his boys, it was simply because he needed them or couldn't risk them falling into the wrong hands.

 

I think of it almost like mass effect, Shepard (being the emperor) goes out to recruit team members (Primarch's) to help him defeat mankinds enemies and greatest enemy. He doesn't go out to look for these highly specialised team members becuase he wants some friends (or sons for this example). He does it simply because it needs to be done for the sake of all life (especially humans).

 

The Emperor isn't trying to win 'The Best Dad in the Universe Award' he's doing what needs to be done and his ridiculous reasons I feel are tied down to necessity and not so much reason. I've never even felt like he wanted to be known as their father with maybe the exception of Horus due to their close/early relationship and the fact that they were very alike.

 

Probably a load of rubbish but just my 0.02 USD.

 

Rysaer

[A D-B]

One of the things I find a pretty compelling notion is the primarchs changing their opinion of the Emperor over the course of the Heresy, as they grow as characters and come to understand the intricacies of the universe better.