Angron's personality

[frostclaw222]

Been reading this for quite a while and holding off, but now, I think I'm ready to contribute.

 

First, I think the Emperor originally viewed the primarchs in a similar (albeit more valuable) way as he viewed any of his other creations. They were designed to be power pieces on the galactic regicide board. But we have to bear in mind that for the Emperor, this was a win-or-lose battle for the species. Case in point: the supposed purging of the Thunder Warriors put forth in Outcast Dead; when the pieces outlive their usefulness, they're removed from the board. Sure, when he finds them, he makes a show of calling them his sons, tries to make nice with them, and does his best to bring them into the fold, but let's also remember that even before Horus heads to Davin, possibly even before Lorgar gets his cease-and-desist at Monarchia, he's already knocked two statues off the plinths at the palace.

 

Some of the primarchs likely turned out less than as hoped. Curze and Angron do have places in a galactic war, though, and it's not just the Emperor who sees this. Horus does as well. And I think before his fall, Horus was the Emperor's best general in terms of finding the correct application for the less-ideal sons, by understanding their psychology and best utilizing their strengths, which is likely a very good reason he was chosen as Warmaster, where others, such as Dorn or Guilliman, who didn't appreciate other approaches to warfare as much as their own, might have been less apt to recognize the usefulness of their more bloodthirsty and terror oriented brethren.

 

Second, I think someone earlier spoke of De'Shea as a world already potentially slipping into Khornate societal behaviors, which I find a likely possibility. Given that the majority of the primarchs were allowed to use their foster-homeworld as a base of operations, the fact that the Emperor forcibly removed Angron from De'Shea is very, very telling. After De'Shea is a very compelling short, as it's not so much the nails that are torturing Angron, but the loss of his comrades and the dealing with his father's betrayal. Khârn's efforts to calm and gain Angron's trust form not only a bridge to Angron, but a bridge for the legion into Angron as well. They recover their primarch from darkness when many thought he was never going to come around. The joy of that dispelling the potential to be a legion bereft of their father after finding him would be tremendously compelling to the psychology of the newly-named World Eaters.

 

Third, think of Angron as a general who, despite being deprived of any significant material support and shackled with mind-torturing cybernetic implants that were likely not compatible with his primarch neurology, raising an army of gladiators and fighting a path out of the pits and into freedom, only to be ripped away from dying free after a lifetime of imprisonment and bondage. Robbed of his last stand, thrust into a world he doesn't know amongst strangers, Angron's original psychic damage from the Nails is compounded by having his dream of winning his freedom or honorable death stolen from him, and forced to join a brotherhood where he may be the only one to have not won and kept his homeworld. Massive inferiority complex could arise from that alone. Then, the De'Shea short's bonding with the captains as he explains the red path forms a new bond with his legion sons, who, seeing how other legions adopted their primarch's traditions as their own, do the same.

 

Also, let's not forget that while the Nails may have stunted his emotional range, Angron did have a primarch's mind. His intellect, though tortured by the Nails' influence, was super-human. So, somewhere, deep in the reaches of his psyche, Angron is likely even more troubled by realizing how his potential was hamstrung by the Nails in comparison to his brothers, and, like any sentient creature long-abused and addicted, he likely tried to find some redemption or succor in his addiction, and, through his new ties to his legion, shared that part of himself as well with his children, just as Fulgrim shared his pursuit of perfection or Russ his rugged individualism.

 

All of this taken together leads me to think two things:

 

1) The Emperor likely hoped that bringing Angron and maybe even Curze into the family would, over time, help heal their wounds, possibly via the influence of his vision and Horus's supervision/guidance/brotherhood. That there was a possibility for redemption for them, whereas the two unknown primarchs were found to be beyond redemption, either when found or soon thereafter. I think they were both seen as useful in their "found" conditions, but the hope was that they would eventually exorcize their inner demons over the course of the Crusade.

 

2) I think Angron is possibly one of the most tragic primarchs, right up there with Curze and Magnus. In fact, I'd say Magnus and Angron are the two most tragic sons of the Emperor.

 

As a Wolves player, I've always until recently found the World Eaters to be overly simplistic and kind of two-dimensional. A D-B and a few others have gone quite a ways toward adding layers of depth to them as a legion, and to Angron as a character, which makes latter-day depictions of Angron as daemon primarch (such as in Emperor's Gift) all the more wrenching. Indeed, Khârn himself in the early days might represent what Angron could have been, but for the events of De'Shea.

 

There are few legions that were in greater need of such depth being added to them, but on the whole, I've found that (barring a few books like Abyss) the BL boys have done a stellar job of taking what's always been a few pages of narrow fluff and adding dimension and depth to the Heresy. This isn't me fanboying here, but looking at it as a writer and appreciating the efforts, challenges, and limitations presented by reforging a story already told and loved in a new and different light.

[randian]

Also, let's not forget that while the Nails may have stunted his emotional range, Angron did have a primarch's mind. His intellect, though tortured by the Nails' influence, was super-human. So, somewhere, deep in the reaches of his psyche, Angron is likely even more troubled by realizing how his potential was hamstrung by the Nails in comparison to his brothers, and, like any sentient creature long-abused and addicted, he likely tried to find some redemption or succor in his addiction

How does somebody of superhuman intellect, realizing how he was being hamstrung by the Nails, conclude that embracing the Nails and remaining hamstrung, rather than removing them and liberating his potential, is the superior course of action?

[frostclaw222]

How do many geniuses in the present day still develop or maintain any addictions or other personality defects?

 

Intellect and stability aren't joined at the hip. Just because Angron had primarch-level smarts starting out, that doesn't do anything to mitigate the psychological stunting of the Nails, nor does it mean he'd be able to "think" his way out of the blunted emotional range they left him with, particularly when so many other nasty events checkered his mental landscape, like his father teleporting him away and leaving his gladiator comrades to die, or any feelings of inadequacy he might feel in comparing himself with more obviously successful brothers and their judgments of him.

 

The Nails supposedly gave Angron (and later, the rest of his sons) a serious high in combat, and the longer and more bloodthirsty the combat, the greater the high. But, like any stimulant, it likely took more to get the same reward each time. Given his life before the Emperor found him, I think Angron might have been doomed to slip into Khorne's grasp anyhow, whether Horus fell or not. Also, I've heard/read somewhere that the Nails couldn't have been removed safely, that any attempt to do so was likely either going to kill or lobotomize Angron. In a situation like that, you can fight it for as long as you want, but sooner or later, a moment of weakness might cause you to surrender. And each surrender would bring you a little closer to embracing the vice more deeply.

 

So, while it might not seem like the superior course of action, it might have been an inevitable one. Let's also remember that while they were superhuman in a lot of respects, even the more well-adjusted primarchs weren't devoid of personal defects. I mean, Fulgrim was a bit of an arrogant peacock, the Lion was prone to paranoia, and even noble Sanguinius had his inner demons. Sure, they might've had IQs that beggared belief, but their psyches weren't exactly perfection, were they?

[randian]

Given his life before the Emperor found him, I think Angron might have been doomed to slip into Khorne's grasp anyhow, whether Horus fell or not.

Given what appears to be the nature of that planet, it was probably a Khorne stronghold to begin with. It's ambiguous though, as is the nature of the beings who invented the Nails (human or alien?). I agree that the Nails would probably have made him fall regardless. I don't believe that, absent the Nails, his fall was inevitable.

Also, I've heard/read somewhere that the Nails couldn't have been removed safely, that any attempt to do so was likely either going to kill or lobotomize Angron.

Who says they need to be removed? If the part that's wormed itself into his brain can't be removed, at least disable them and remove the "dreadlocks." They do have off periods, and in Aurelian Angron seemed quite lucid during them. Unless they're Chaos artifacts, and that's something you'd think the Emperor would have noticed immediately upon meeting Angron, I doubt their creators could have made something the Emperor couldn't understand.

[Wade Garrett]

How does rage improve your durability? Your skin isn't any tougher, your skull no thicker.

 

The same way that dosing your plain old homo sapiens on PCP or any other potent drug does: The bones may break and the flesh may bleed, but as long as enough bits remain connected to one another that you can swing your weapon, you're still in the fight. Heck, plain old humans on pure adrenelain can do some pretty amazing things, if the nails did nothing but trigger whatever part of the brain is in charge of flooding you with that stuff more or less at will, they'd be a pretty potent edge for a warrior.

 

Look at the norse baresarks from history, or stories from parts of the world where the average warlord sees nothing wrong with dosing his conscripts with whatever dangerously illegal stimulant is cheapest for him to get his hands on... if your troops have the ability to ignore wounds that could cripple or outright kill ordinary soldiers, they have the advantage over their enemies.

 

As for the Emperor not being able to understand the Butcher's Nails...let's not give Big E too much credit here. He was a brilliant scientist, but hardly omniscient. The Eldar and Tau have shown an ability to produce tech better than that Emps equipped his warriors with. And if we give Fabius Bile any credit, the laer bio enhancement system was more sophisticated than the process Emp's used to make Astartes. Corax's science team was able to use the remnants of the Primarch Project to create Space Marines superior to those born of the method's Emps perfected.....and so on, and so forth.