Black legion space marines

[SeverSlates]

my first attempt on chaos space marine painting and converting. Hope I could get some feedback on these.

[Captain Hwarang]

They look good man, you should be proud. You've painted in the lines and all the colors are in the right places. I also like the base you chose for the champion to help make him stand out.

 

It does look like they were drybrushed with leadbelcher/ironbreaker. In fact, it looks like that main technique you used for all of the highlights was drybrushing. It's given them a worn, battle damaged feel, which I think probably looks awesome on the tabletop, but is in these upclose pictures the effect is kind of ruined. Space marines are not especially suited for drybrushing because they don't have so many raised areas, and it's easy to leave behind brushstrokes. If you want to continue using drybrushing (which I wouldn't blame you for because it's so fast), make sure your brush is VERY dry.

 

On the other, I would add some washes if I were you, especially on the metal. Brown, black, something dark will work.

 

Another fast way to paint black would be to use the new equivalent of charadon granite (not sure of the new name) as a base coat and then just wash it with nuln oil. That will keep things smoother without slowing down the whole process.

 

Anyway, congrats on the models. Keep'em coming!

 

-CH

[lav25gunner]

They look good man, you should be proud. You've painted in the lines and all the colors are in the right places. I also like the base you chose for the champion to help make him stand out...

Captain Hwarang, how is anyone supposed to get better with these kind of C&C? There's nothing I agree with in your C&C. Bolter & Chainsword is one of my top 3 Warhammer sites, but I hate how all the members sugar coat their comments. I've never seen so much bull being passed around like I do on this site. No one is gonna get better with these types of critiques. That's one of the reasons I don't post many of my models here, I would never get any good critiques. I think people post to get honest comments AND suggestions on improving.

sgt tarkus: Did you use primer or paint directly on the plastic? The reason I ask is that I think I can see some of the plastic on a few areas. There is no real need to paint a black primed model black. It's already black.

Also, before I start critiquing your models, I have to comment on the picture quality. Do not take pictures with a flash, unless you have a diffuser. The flash adds tremendous glare on your model which accentuates flaws and light colors. Take pics in a well-lighted area. Outdoors on a bright day is best if you don't have good lighting.

I know this sounds counter intuitive, but take pictures of your models with a darker back ground and not on a white surface like you did. What happens is that your camera sees all the white and thinks it is light, so it closes the aperture/iris to compensate. This makes your dark color model look even darker. Look at the difference here.

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff246/eviltony/40K%20Misc/BlackandWhite.jpg

The camera thought the white background was light so the aperture closed, making the picture darker, the black background caused the camera to think it was dark, so it opened the aperture to let more light in. You can see the change is drastic. They almost look like two different paint schemes. I would suggest you take a few more pics in better light without a flash.

The Good:

It looks like you took the time to prep your models and trimmed them. Great job on that! NOTHING kills a paint job more than mold lines. Also, It looks like you watered down your paints. Good for you. Most new painters do not water down their paints. The Bases also look good. (Though they could use a little drybrushing).

The Bad:

You watered your paint down too much. This is very clear in these two pictures....

Look at the horns.

You can still see the black on the high areas. This means that the paint was so watered down that it went into the lowest (recess) areas and left the high areas unpainted. Watering paints down to much gives it a 'wash' effect. It prevents the paint from covering the area well, and it also makes it hard to control the paint when you brush it onto the model (paint runs).

Drybrushing. I know you're going for a battle worn look, by drybrushing metal over the black, but you've gone too far. What you've done is called overbrushing. You've loaded so much metal on your brush, that it looks like the black is the drybrushed color.

You can see it clearly on the legs here.

Basing. You have a pretty serious basing issue, you can pretty much see the black paint underneath EVERY color you've painted. This could be do to the flash on the camera showing flaws that you would normally not be able to see otherwise.

Here you can see most of the black beneath the purple hair. You can also see the black beneath the gold, silver and pretty much all the other colors.

The Fix:

Water. Start with 3:1 paint to water. and then add little by little till you get the right consistency. This will give you better coverage and the paint wont run.

Drybrushing. You want like 96% of the paint OFF the brush before you begin. Before you start drybrushing your model, test it out on your thumbnail. You should be able to see individual ridges along your finger nail. If you can't see it, you have to much paint on your brush.

Basing. You'll want to put an intermediate paint color between the black and the desired color. So for the purple hair, you can use a base paint like Naggaroth Night or Daemonette Hide. For Golds you can paint the area brown or a bronze type color. Silver/metal you can paint directly over black, but just make sure you do a couple of coats, not just one thick or watered down coat.

Add some Evil Sunz Scarlet or Blood Red to the eyes so they're not so dark.

The two best pieces of advice I can give a painter is to water the paint and take your time! This hobby isn't cheap. When you think about it, a single model can cost anywhere from $3.75 up to $20!! So you better take your time and do them right. I would say that for a starting painter, about 3-6 hours per model is about right. This depends on the painter's abilities, paint scheme, as well as his standard. With time and practice, you should be able to cut your painting time down to 30-60 minutes per model to a high standard quality.

I hope this helps and motivates you to try new things and improve on your painting skills.

[Dosjetka]

Bolter & Chainsword is one of my top 3 Warhammer sites, but I hate how all the members sugar coat their comments. I've never seen so much bull being passed around like I do on this site. No one is gonna get better with these types of critiques. That's one of the reasons I don't post many of my models here, I would never get any good critiques. I think people post to get honest comments AND suggestions on improving.

Errr... What the heck?

 

Do you think that bashing a brand new member with brutally honest critique is going to make him want to come back? Maybe Capt. H didn't handle it in the best way, but there's absolutely no point in exploding like that. Especially since he actually did give some good tips afterwards. If you don't like this place, then leave. Simple as that. And if you really want "proper" critique (which is completely subjective, by the way) and you're not some lazy person, then you go to the people who you know will give you good critique yourself and you don't wait for them to come to you. Alright? SO stop complaining aimlessly as it's not going to help you.

 

Now, sgt tarkus, I don't how long you've been painting or anything, but if this is your beginning in painting, then it's not too bad. However, as lav25gunner has pointed out, there are quite a few things you could improve on.

 

First, you need to make sure you don't overload your brush with paint, which seems to be the main issue here. In a lot of places, the paint is quite thick. Try putting less paint on your brush when you dip it in the pot, but also try quickly dipping your brush into a pot of water before applying paint to the model. You could also get yourself an old CD, a ceramic tile or just a flat piece of plastic and use it as a palette. It's a good way of making sure your paint isn't too thick as you first put it on the palette, then mix a bit of water into it with your brush. That way you can see it's thickness and add more paint/water to the mix if you think it's too thin/thick. And it's always better to put multiple thin layers on than one thick one.

 

Secondly, you seem to be using the drybrush method, which is absolutely fine. But on Space Marines and their Chaos counterparts, as Capt. H has pointed out, it isn't that great. You'd be better off trying to line highlight the various bits on the model. Google that term and you'll find some good tutorials which explain it better than I do (with pictures too!).

 

Thirdly, on the lighter parts (such as the blue cables, the bone parts, the metallic parts, etc...), I would suggest you apply a wash (GW sell these, they're called Shades) and then re-paint the base colour over the prominent parts. That way, you have some nice shading which makes things look better, in my opinion.

 

Lastly, I hope that the sort-of detailed reply was clear enough and if you have more questions, just ask!

 

Cheers,

 

Ludovic

 

EDIT: Read lav25gunner's stuff as he goes into more detail than I do in certain parts.

[Validar]

I hate how all the members sugar coat their comments. I've never seen so much bull being passed around like I do on this site. No one is gonna get better with these types of critiques. That's one of the reasons I don't post many of my models here, I would never get any good critiques. I think people post to get honest comments AND suggestions on improving.

 

I wholeheartly agree with this. I have nothing against the original poster, nor anyone lacking good painting skills. But playing them for fools is not getting anyone anywhere.

 

Lav25 may be brutal in his critique, but read it and read it as honest advice. Use it as you please. The more you follow, the better your models are likely to look, but the more time you have to spend on them. Your choice. Atleast he has given you a real C&C on your models that may really improve your level of painting. Keep us updated if you make more and let us see how it goes ;)

 

/Vali

[SeverSlates]

Thank you guys for your opinions. I just started painting models so everyones advice is really helpful. Also I was trying a wash I made from alcohol and black paint(still working on it) so that is why some spots look like the base coat shows through.

P.S. how would you thicken paint? the brown I got for some reason is way to runny on its own.

[Bat33.1]

Thank you guys for your opinions. I just started painting models so everyones advice is really helpful. Also I was trying a wash I made from alcohol and black paint(still working on it) so that is why some spots look like the base coat shows through.

P.S. how would you thicken paint? the brown I got for some reason is way to runny on its own.

 

My first piece of advice for a figure painter, never, ever, ever paint straight from the bottle. Put the paint onto some form of palette, a white ceramic tile works well and is very cheap to buy or even an old saucer. If the paint is too thick you can add water at this point, if it is too thin from the bottle leave it on the palette for a short while - oh and make sure you give the bottle a really good shake to stir all the pigment up. You could use a tooth pick or similar to stir the paint in case it has settled into layers in the bottle with the heavier pigment at the bottom.

 

As has been already said you've made a good start with building and prepping the minis for paint, now comes the longer process of improving your painting technique which will take time and practice but please keep posting and I'm sure people will keep pushing you in the right direction.

[lav25gunner]

Thank you guys for your opinions. I just started painting models so everyones advice is really helpful. Also I was trying a wash I made from alcohol and black paint(still working on it) so that is why some spots look like the base coat shows through.

P.S. how would you thicken paint? the brown I got for some reason is way to runny on its own.

 

Typically it's the opposite. Paints that sit on a shelf too long sometimes tend to dry out and become thicker. Have you shaken the bottle/pot well before you use it?

Letting the water evaporate isn't really an option because the acrylic would harden and dry. As a last ditch effort I would try leaving the pot open to let water evaporate, but continuously mix the pot so that hopefully the paint won't dry.

 

The safer route would be to use one of these acrylic products.

 

http://www.pleinairco.com/images/PAINTS/AA/8oz-Acrylic-Impasto-Medium350.jpg

 

http://www.jerrysartarama.com/images/products/acrylics/golden/golden_acrylic_mediums/0039588000000-st-01-gac-200.jpg

 

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31fq43xixaL.jpg

 

And a few other products, but ultimately they are more expensive than just buying a replacement pot of paint.

[Brother Ambroz]

As far as the painting goes, its not terrible given that these are your first I did about the same job on my first models. One thing I think you did very well on was the bases (that they're standing on). Keep it up, improvement can take a long time but its worth it in the end.

[Captain Hwarang]

They look good man, you should be proud. You've painted in the lines and all the colors are in the right places. I also like the base you chose for the champion to help make him stand out...

 

Captain Hwarang, how is anyone supposed to get better with these kind of C&C? There's nothing I agree with in your C&C. Bolter & Chainsword is one of my top 3 Warhammer sites, but I hate how all the members sugar coat their comments. I've never seen so much bull being passed around like I do on this site. No one is gonna get better with these types of critiques. That's one of the reasons I don't post many of my models here, I would never get any good critiques. I think people post to get honest comments AND suggestions on improving.

 

 

Sorry but I don't see anything wrong with sugar coating my comments. This was a new poster (1st post in fact), to which no one else had even replied. Sgt tarkus did, in fact, paint in the lines, as evidenced especially by the gold. Time was spent on these models, and in my gaming area, this is especially rare. He should be proud to have painted models, and I'll stand by that indefinitely. Many new painters give up right away when their models do not look like the studio models, and tarkus has a nearly full squad painted, and that is an accomplishment of which he should be proud. Seeking advice is something of which he should also be proud. I will also indefinitely stand by those statements. I want everyone to love this hobby, and making someone feel bad about their painting is not a means to that end. DOn't get me wrong, you haven't done so at all and tarkus has no reason to feel so, because your comments were especially detailed and helpful.

 

Also, it seems to me we agree on the drybrushing thing. I offered advice and alternatives which I think were helpful, sugar coated or not, although not as in depth as which you were graciously inclined to do. A ratio of 1 positive to 1 negative is not a bad principle to live by when offering advice, in my opinion. You yourself took time to point out the strengths of these models as well as the weaknesses.

 

@Sgt Tarkus: I don't think the case with brown was it being too watery out of the pot, but that you painted directly on top of black. If we are indeed talking about the brown on the horns, it looks like you've used graveyard earth or kommando khaki, or new equivalents. These colors will not cover black in one coat, and if you over apply them, you will end up with the effect you have here. Many (5-8) coats will be needed, or you can base the black with khemri/calthan brown or new equivalent, and use less coats.

 

Whether you thought my original comments were helpful or not, or sugar coated or not, they were meant to encourage and advise. Keep the models coming man! We'll give the best advice we can, all in our own ways.

 

-CH

[SeverSlates]

I know my painting skills need some work but what does everyone think about the banners on the models? also i am working on a chaplain right now and ill post it up soon.

[Captain Hwarang]

I know my painting skills need some work but what does everyone think about the banners on the models? also i am working on a chaplain right now and ill post it up soon.

 

It's good for you to know that your painting skills need some work, because EVERYBODY'S painting skills ALWAYS need work. A golden demon winner does not stop trying to improve after winning that first golden demon, because no matter what there is always room for improvement. ALWAYS. So cheers to you for trying to do that.

 

The banners are nice. As I pointed out before, the gold is a strength here. It provides some contrast to the black, and it is (mostly) in the lines. The cloth on the banners can be tricky because cream cloth is a warm color, as is gold, and the lack of contrast can be kind of boring. If you don't mind my saying, the cloth is weak here.

 

I think it would help all of us give you advice if we know what level of painting you're aiming for. Table top? Above table top? Display? It makes a big difference regarding your palette and techniques.

 

The following is a recipe for table top/slightly above table top models. I apologize for not knowing the new equivalents to the old colors, but a very small of amount of research will help you out here.

 

Black: Basecoat charadon granite. Badab black wash. Codex gray 1st highlight, fortress gray 2nd highlight.

Gold: Basecoat calthan brown. Basecoat shining gold. Devlan mud wash. 1st highligh shining gold, 2nd highlight burnished gold, 3rd highlight mithril silver.

Silver: Basecoat chaos black. Boltgun metal basecoat. Badab black wash 1st highlight boltgun metal, 2nd highlight chainmail, 3rd highlight mithril silver.

Warm cloth (brown/tan/cream): Dheneb stone base coat. Devlan mud wash. 1st highlight dheneb stone, 2nd highlight bleached bone, 3rd highlight skull white.

Cool cloth (gray etc.): Astronomicon gray base coat. Badab black wash. 1st Astronomicon gray, 2nd highlight space wolve gray, 3rd highlight skull white.

 

In my opinion, the above recipes up to (and including) the first highlights, are about a 3 hour job per squad. To me, this looks like the speed at which you are painting.

You can stop at the wash and be at table top level easy. It would be far above most the models I 've played against, to be honest.

 

Also, although I have moved to almost exclusively using vallejo paints instead of GW, I always use a water to paint ratio of 1:1. At least, never less water than that. If the paint is too thin, I put on more coats. The most important tool in my arsenal at the moment is an eyedropper. 1 drop of water to 1 drop of paint. I find that dipping the non-bristled end of your brush into the top of the paint pot is a good way to get "1 drop" of paint reliably.

 

Anyway to answer the question regarding the banners more specifically, you need more contrast between the gold and cloth. Hope that helps. Can't wait to see the chaplain!

 

-CH