Plague marines of other chapters?

[Lord Morgrim]

Just wondering fluffwise can my own chapter which is undivided have plague marines? I am thinking yes as the plague marine isnt a Death Guard only thing they are simply chaos marines who have dedicated themselves to Nurgle. What about other cult troops? Thousands Sons I can only see as TSons but berzerkers and noise marines I can see similar to Plaguies....whats the general consensus?

[Orlunu]

Well, first off you can take units from any legion with the exception of named characters and still be fluffy. These four legions are really rather fragmented now and your lord should be able to attract a few to his service. On whether you have to be in these Legions at some point to become a cult trooper: I believe that I read somewhere, somewhen, that Papa Nurgle only gives those who join the Death Guard his plague of awsomeness. Only World Eater apothecaries know how to do the Khornezerker lobotomy (although, as Abbadon has to be brokenly good at everything, the Black Legion have a defector apothecary who can do it. Thousand Sons, yeah, can't imagine that many people volunteer to be turned into Rubric Marines. For noise marines, can't remember anything like this, but would imagine non-EC look at the EC guys and think "Freaks, I'm staying away from them."

 

HOWEVER, once they have become cult troops they can join other warbands.

[incinerator950]

4th basically stated you needed the World Eater's Brain Surgeons to make Berserkers. To be a real Plague Marine, you needed a Sorcerer of Nurgle to bestow Nurgles gift onto a Marine. For Rubric Marines, they're just about Mindless Automatons with the soul trapped inside, so all you need is a Thousand Son Sorcerer or any Sorcerer of Tzeentch familiar with the Rubric of Ahriman. Its interesting, Noise Marines didn't need anything superficial to be what they are. They're kinda just there.

 

Edit: Basically a Noise Marine was a Marine dedicated to the service of Excess with a big gun that shoots sound waves.

 

Naturally Abbadon has all of these at his disposal.

[Brother Ambroz]

According to 3.5, these gents here would be right. However, that is not how it is anymore. There are no legions persay and those that remain from each legion are often times hired out or pledge themselves to other warbands for various reasons. There are many ways to make new cult marines, perhaps not exactly every plague marine is just as resilent as a death guard marine but sometimes maybe they are. Take the Purge for example, they are rumored to never even remove their armor. Thick black goo oozes from their joints and eye sockets. Who is to say that these mysterious followers of Nurgle aren't even more resilent than the Death Guard? And how did they come about? Basically what I'm trying to say is you can make up whatever backstory you want. It may be slightly harder to come up with fluff for some of the cults (Thousand Sons in particular) but thats also where counts as comes in to play. Maybe a certain powerful daemon cursed a squad of yours by sorcerously binding their power armor to them? There are many ways to explain cult marines in a warband, you've just got to be able to explain it! :confused:

[Warsmith Aznable]

Just wondering fluffwise can my own chapter which is undivided have plague marines? I am thinking yes as the plague marine isnt a Death Guard only thing they are simply chaos marines who have dedicated themselves to Nurgle. What about other cult troops? Thousands Sons I can only see as TSons but berzerkers and noise marines I can see similar to Plaguies....whats the general consensus?

 

Do what thou wilt without annoying thy regular game opponents shall be the whole of thy fluff restrictions. So saith the Great Beast, yea, and thou mayst quote me.

[Sception]

Plague marines are not just traitor marines dedicated to nurgle, but suffer from / are blessed by a particularly potent affliction which transforms those who are strong enough not to be killed by it, but not so proud that they are unwilling to turn to Nurgle and give in for relief.

 

Theoretically, marines outside of the death guard can become plague marines, but the death guard are the bulk of their number, and primary source of the infection, so most plague marines are of the death guard.

 

The Death Guard themselves however are somewhat dispersed. Though their Legion was never shattered the way the Emperor's Children or World Eaters were, their primarch is content to lord over his daemon world and seems to take no interest in the galaxy outside the Eye. Many Death Guard have left their primarch to continue the long war. The most notable of these is Typhus, who commands a large force of such restless Death Guard, but others have formed splinter warbands of their own, or signed onto the service of other chaos lords. A number have sworn to Abaddon's Black Legion, while some serve as mercenaries and soldiers of fortune, oozing from the Eye of Terror like drops of pus from an infected wound to deliver Nurgle's gifts to a thousand waiting worlds.

[darknightdrako]

You could also do regular marines with bionic bits on them, to represent plague marines. I currently have max mini bionic bits and will build some Iron Warriors when the new csm dex comes out. You dont have to be a nurgle follower to get +1 Toughness and FNP. Also I currently building noise marines using possesed kits and tyranid deathspitters as blast masters.

 

So bascially do what you want its your fluff. :D

[Jay Taint]

Papa Nurgle only gives those who join the Death Guard his plague of awsomeness.

But many and various are the blessings of the Grandfather. In fact, he's constantly trying new stuff. You can come up with anything that fits you, not necessarily only the Destroyer Plague (that's probably specific to the Death Guard), and have it represented as Plague Marines game-wise. Also, there are many different war bands that could well go as Plague Marines on the table -- Purge, Tainted, Apostles of Contagion, etc. -- and that are not Death Guard.

 

Cheers, JT

[Lord_Caerolion]

I've never liked the excuse "nope, Nurgle only ever gives one disease to his Astartes followers, and if you aren't one of the Death Guard, you need a Sorceror to perform a super-secret ritual on you to even catch that". It makes the Death Guard sound kinda cooler, but flies in the face of every other bit of background about Nurgle and the Chaos Gods ever.

 

If Nurgle wants to bless you and infect you with a disease, he will. If Khorne wants to bless you with pure rage, then he will, and so on. In my opinion, you can have counts-as of every Cult Unit under the one Cult if you put enough thought into it. Rabid followers of Nurgle counting as Berzerkers, followers of Khorne so lost to their rage that you literally have to take them apart to keep them down counting as Plage Marines, etc.

[Dammeron]

The background is and has always been written with a certain degree of openness and ambiguity so as to allow players to tailor their forces as and how they wish. This goes to the power of N for the specific Chaos Space Marine cults; not only are the four dedicated Chaos Legions specifically schismed, fractured or broken entirely (meaning that wandering bands can ally with practically any warlord who allows them the opportunity to practice their faith), but there are also any number of ways in which members of other legions or renegades can be subsumed into those cults. With regards to Nurgle specifically, maybe a certain portion of your warband fall prey to a strange malady after warring against the forces of Nurgle on a daemon world; one that slowly rots and corrupts them until they become Plague Marines. Or perhaps they are possessed by Nurgle daemons after finding themselves lost in the Warp, or infected by some daemonic parasite. Alternatively, you could create something that is redolent of Plague Marines in terms of their rules, but have a different background and ethos that are more in keeping with that of your army. It's actually quite a fun writing exercise, and can seriously drive not only the creation of background and mythology, but also inspiration for modelling etc.

 

For example, though my current warband, the Severed Angels, is Slaaneshi in nature, there are no Noise Marines; they simply do not fit with the army's background. Instead, we have what their Imperial opponents have tentatively dubbed "Pain Marines;" creatures that have become utterly enamoured by the art and experience of pain; with sculpting flesh into all manner of strange and diverting configurations. In this regard, they have been tutored and tailored by the Dark Eldar Haemonculi of the Tattered Veil, whom they regard as teachers and guides in the art of sculpting flesh. As such, the weapons they carry are grafted into their bodies; strange and alien devices designed to mutilate and agonise rather than kill. Aesthetically, the Pain Marines are very different from their Noise Marine equivalents; their flesh split, altered and reworked, they tend to sport highly elaborate armour that is open in places to reveal the elaborate mutilation of their bodies. The armour itself is often a living torture device, strung with the various instruments of their peculiar craft, erupting with extra limbs that terminate in delicate but vicious surgical implements.

 

In game terms, they simply count as Noise Marines; the rules fit, but the aesthetic and background is very different. As long as you inform your opponent of what is what before any battles take place, there is absolutely no reason not to indulge in a little myth making ;)

[*Furyou Miko]

By fluff, my Rubric Marines are actually Minor and Lesser Daemons of Tzeentch (Tutelaries and Horrors) bound into suits of Sororitas Power Armour, led by Chaos Witches in the same.

 

Another person on here I know uses any old models for his Rubrics - they're not Rubrics, per say, but rather the souls and spirits of his Sorcerers' conquered foes, bound to eternal servitude as Ghostly Warriors.

[Trevak Dal]

Maybe your warband bought off a Deathguard Sorcerer/Apothecary, or they were 'tutored' in the ways of Nurgle by a Deathguard/other prominent Nurgle Warband.

[Sception]

Or simply contracted the appropriate disease in skirmishes with rival nurgle faithful formerly of the Death Guard. Or were founded by a splinter faction of Death guard, or once hired death guard mercenaries, or fought beside Death Guard warriors in a black crusade, and contracted the plague from them.

[incinerator950]

I've never liked the excuse "nope, Nurgle only ever gives one disease to his Astartes followers, and if you aren't one of the Death Guard, you need a Sorceror to perform a super-secret ritual on you to even catch that". It makes the Death Guard sound kinda cooler, but flies in the face of every other bit of background about Nurgle and the Chaos Gods ever.

 

If Nurgle wants to bless you and infect you with a disease, he will. If Khorne wants to bless you with pure rage, then he will, and so on. In my opinion, you can have counts-as of every Cult Unit under the one Cult if you put enough thought into it. Rabid followers of Nurgle counting as Berzerkers, followers of Khorne so lost to their rage that you literally have to take them apart to keep them down counting as Plage Marines, etc.

 

tlrd: Pretend your models away.

[incinerator950]

According to 3.5, these gents here would be right. However, that is not how it is anymore. There are no legions persay and those that remain from each legion are often times hired out or pledge themselves to other warbands for various reasons. There are many ways to make new cult marines, perhaps not exactly every plague marine is just as resilent as a death guard marine but sometimes maybe they are. Take the Purge for example, they are rumored to never even remove their armor. Thick black goo oozes from their joints and eye sockets. Who is to say that these mysterious followers of Nurgle aren't even more resilent than the Death Guard? And how did they come about? Basically what I'm trying to say is you can make up whatever backstory you want. It may be slightly harder to come up with fluff for some of the cults (Thousand Sons in particular) but thats also where counts as comes in to play. Maybe a certain powerful daemon cursed a squad of yours by sorcerously binding their power armor to them? There are many ways to explain cult marines in a warband, you've just got to be able to explain it! ;)

 

Its almost a little ambiguous. The Legions still exist, just many of them fractured. I do believe the Word Bearers and the Luna Wolves turned Black Legion operate at near Legion command, with the obvious splinter Warbands. Where as you have Thousand Sons who are mostly Rubric Marines, which that much can't be done to divide the Sorcerer leadership from Magnus. Then you have cases like the Night Lords who splinter, or the Iron Warriors and Death Guard maintaining a large presence but ultimately dividing up for their own purposes. Then you have cases like the World Eaters and Emperor's Children who have a cataclysmic event that shatters the Legion apart.

 

You can bend the fluff attributed to the current rules, but certain that true Berserkers and Plague Marines originate and are mostly made by interaction with these parent Legions. I'm curious to see if 5th Chaos will correct the stupidity of the 4th.

[Brother Ambroz]

tlrd: Pretend your models away.

 

Its almost a little ambiguous. The Legions still exist, just many of them fractured. I do believe the Word Bearers and the Luna Wolves turned Black Legion operate at near Legion command, with the obvious splinter Warbands. Where as you have Thousand Sons who are mostly Rubric Marines, which that much can't be done to divide the Sorcerer leadership from Magnus. Then you have cases like the Night Lords who splinter, or the Iron Warriors and Death Guard maintaining a large presence but ultimately dividing up for their own purposes. Then you have cases like the World Eaters and Emperor's Children who have a cataclysmic event that shatters the Legion apart.

 

You can bend the fluff attributed to the current rules, but certain that true Berserkers and Plague Marines originate and are mostly made by interaction with these parent Legions. I'm curious to see if 5th Chaos will correct the stupidity of the 4th.

 

They're models, isn't that what we're doing anyway?

 

The legionaries still exist, this is true but the legions themselves are nothing like what they once were. They're no longer led by Primarchs. They're more like chapters now, with each warband acting in much the same fashion. Even the legions that still act like "legions" aren't the same. Sure each warband will answer the call of the Council of Dark Apostles or Abbadon but beyond that, each warlord functions in its own right. Many are trying to kill one another for warriors, ships, vehicles etc. There are myriad others that can explain this better than I can.

 

True a great many new cult marines are created via contact with the originals but still.

There are other ways to create plague marines, beserkers, noise marines and thousand sons other than with the original legions.

[incinerator950]

Oh of course, its just that the ambiguity of dedication to the God was all you needed in 3.5. 4.0 is what is stating you need Brain Surgeons, special Magic, or possibly a Thousand Son Sorcerer to make Rubric Marines. Also, they aren't in their full Legion organization, but at some of them retain leadership under the original 1st Command or Primarchs.

 

There's a fine line between Counts as, modeled to be, and then stupid bull****.

[Lord Morgrim]

Good discussion guys ...thanks I shall field them....

[nurglez]

All Deathguard are plague marines, but not all plague marines are Deathguard.

All World Eaters are berzerkers, but not all berzerkers are World Eaters.

All Emperor's Children are noise marines, but not all noise marines are Emperor's Children.

 

Thousand sons are divided into sorcerers and dusty remains in suits, they are the one exception to the rather broad statement above :woot:

[Orlunu]

All Emperor's Children are noise marines, but not all noise marines are Emperor's Children.

Yup; Fabius Bile, infamous for his horrendous experiments to create freakish, powerful new ... symphonies.

 

PS. Sorry, that sounded rather aggressive. I just really dislike noise marines. :o The fewer there are, both fluff and models wise, the better.

[*Furyou Miko]

Yeah, not all Emperor's Children are Noise Marines - Fabulous Bill is not a Noise Marine, or even a worshipper of Slaanesh.