True Scale Terminator Captain Prometheus

[batu]

Thanks. As he is a stand in for He'stan, the 'power fist' is actually just a glaive to hold the flamer parts. You're right though, if I was to give him a power fist it would have been larger than what he has.

 

Sorry man :D

[Brother-Chaplain Kage]

You have some incredible sculpting skills, but the thing that immediately jumped out at me on this is how high the shoulders are on the this guy - they're already a bit too high on the regular terminators(almost like they're growing out of the neck) but this guy would have to be mangled to put into the armor this way.

[StrayCatt]

You have some incredible sculpting skills, but the thing that immediately jumped out at me on this is how high the shoulders are on the this guy - they're already a bit too high on the regular terminators(almost like they're growing out of the neck) but this guy would have to be mangled to put into the armor this way.

Remember, the shoulder pads sit on top of, and protect the shoulder joints. If you follow the line of the armup, the point for the shoulder is just about right.

[Brother-Chaplain Kage]

Remember, the shoulder pads sit on top of, and protect the shoulder joints. If you follow the line of the armup, the point for the shoulder is just about right.

 

No, it's not. Here's the Vitruvian man overlaid for comparison:

 

 

http://i.imgur.com/6x4Wj.jpg

 

 

Taking into consideration the exaggerated proportions of a Marine having a much wider ribcage than a normal man, the shoulders are still WAY off. This is true even on an unmodified terminator, but it's even more out of place here - the tops of his shoulders would be on the same level as his nose. The rest of proportions are pretty good, though the torso should be a bit longer, but it's not that noticeable.

[Dechande]

You have some incredible sculpting skills, but the thing that immediately jumped out at me on this is how high the shoulders are on the this guy - they're already a bit too high on the regular terminators(almost like they're growing out of the neck) but this guy would have to be mangled to put into the armor this way.

 

Thanks. You are right with regard to proportions. When I sculpt 'normal men', proportions are very important, otherwise it will look 'off', even if it's not immediately obvious as to what exactly is wrong.

With GW's model styling, almost nothing conforms to regular proportionality. When I work on space marines, I find it less important to pay attention to the proportions rather than making it 'look right'. Although looking right is still very subjective, especially given how much our imagination is still involved in the idea of space marines, the way they move, act, sound etc.. Only in the last few years have we really seen space marines 'in motion' with things like the Ultramarines movie (these didn't look right to me at all) and the 'Space Marine' game (which I think did a fantastic job in bringing SM movement to life) as well as the Dawn of War series. Before these new mediums, for many years I had only imagined how a SM would be if a real living thing.

 

Da Vinci's illustration shows the proportions for an average man, of one body type. There isn't a great deal of official artwork of an unamoured Astartes, but from what there is, and their descriptions, I imagine them to be rather proportionally different to a regular human.

I've always imagined they have more in common with 'The Hulk's' proportions than ours. If you've played Saints Row the Third, there's a Russian giant character in that, who again, reminded me of a space marine.

[Brother-Chaplain Kage]

I did mention the exaggerated marine anatomy in a previous post, but that can only go so far before it gets into the realm of ludicrous. Proportions can be fudged for the sake of artistic license and "what looks cool", but it also has to be tempered with some reality.

 

Does the mini look cool? Yeah, I think it's an incredible conversion/resculpt, but the problem arises when the artistic license has crossed too far and breaks the suspension of disbelief. If the arms were lowered, the extreme width of the chest and shoulders required to fit into that armor could be much more easily overlooked.

[Dechande]

I knocked these up whilst I'm at work, helps the time pass lol.

Drawing is not my favourite medium, but I think you'll get the idea. I used the true scale terminator for the first one, and another model I am working on for the second pic as I was curious:

The proportions are obviously not right for a normal man, but I think they work for a SM, at least they do for me. I overlaid these onto the monitor as I did them, I know they're not perfect but the head and shoulders line up ok with the picture of the conversion. Of course these proportions wouldn't really work with power armour, I guess only the most massive, no neck, rhino tipping space marines get to become terminators.

[Deathwing70]

Noone ever said terminator armor should be comfortable to wear. I always figured the Marines were positioned a little hunchbacked to fit into those suits.

They're not designed to be very manouvrable, as long as they can look forward and strike forward they are achieving their goal of walking down corridors or directly into some big threat.

 

If you imagine a marine hunchbacked, his shoulders should be around the same height as his head. The only problem this causes is that there is no real reason a terminator should be 2-3 heads taller than a power armored space marine because it would rip apart the other proportions. Assuming the marine inside the terminator suit is the same height as any other marine that is.

[Mercadius]

I was in agreement with the statement about the shoulder positioning. It seems way out anatomically. That notion was then further compounded by the sketches OP posted or musculature and body poses. There's no sense of proportion to the sketches which makes sense why the shoulders look odd on the mini - same artist, same mistakes. It's kinda like Scibor miniatures - that unrealistic look to it. The sculpting is nice and clean. The design seems out of whack a little though it IS a very good effort indeed!.

[BassWave]

The way I see it, Dechande created an accurate model of GW's design. Because the model is bigger, it seems even more ridiculous, but that is no fault of Dechande. Don't like the proportions, blame GW.

 

Stunning model indeed :) But get that thing painted, the Hall of Honor is meant for finished models for Emperor's sake :P

[Dechande]

The way I see it, Dechande created an accurate model of GW's design. Because the model is bigger, it seems even more ridiculous, but that is no fault of Dechande. Don't like the proportions, blame GW.

 

Stunning model indeed :) But get that thing painted, the Hall of Honor is meant for finished models for Emperor's sake ;)

 

Thanks, yes the model is supposed to still look like the original GW terminators and artwork. I have seen some larger scale terminators that have been made closer to the anatomy of a man, and to me, they didn't look right. This is because I am used to the way GW has made marines look for so long (like most of us). I remember being a kid and talking about how ridiculous the terminator design was, trying to position myself as if wearing the stuff, impossible! Now I just see a terminator and forget the silly proportions. Most GW figures are caricatures essentially in this regard.

 

'Mercadius', they are not 'mistakes', it looks as I intended it to look. The sketches have the same proportions as the model (and another model I'm doing), I think saying there is no sense of proportion is a little off. Admittedly, for a human they are not right, but for a space marine they look right to me. I certainly don't want to argue, but this feels a bit silly when people start to argue about proportions when GW's style has always been renowned for having very little anatomical bearing on reality (as with almost all 28mm models) and when trying to apply the proportions of the wrong species (regular humans) as well. I see what you are saying, I just don't agree.

 

Most 28mm human models have almost dwarf proprtions, they're too wide, have huge hands, heads and feet. If you compare 1/48 scale models from the likes of tamiya with those made by GW you'll see what I mean. This is why in the world of WWII and modern day wargaming, almost noone agrees on an accepted scale for vehicles. 28mm models are roughly 1/56th for height and 1/48th for bulk.

 

I am moving house in the next few weeks and all my painting stuff is packed up so I won't be able to get it painted for a while unfortunately, I'm just doing sculpting and conversions at the moment.

[Kurgan the Lurker]

GW proportions have always been off. The non-Marine models are all too large and the Marines all have their ear/shoulders lined up.

 

Yes a Terminator shouldn't be so much bigger than a Marine if it was "real" but given GWs poor scaling (just look at the fists on Khorne Zerker models) this is fine when put against his true scale Marine. Now against a "normal scale" Marine the proportions are of course all out of whack. I like to call this stuff Fist of the North Star Syndrome.

 

It doesn't help when one of the most famous GW images of a Marine is off by at least a foot! Anyone that has seen the big Marine wall poster they have at any Games Day that shows the Marine at 8' tall you'll recall that the 1' mark is at the bottom of the marines foot and not a foot off the ground like it should be. So even that supposedly accurate image is wrong.

 

So let's get back to the good-n-bad of the sculpt itself and not whether it is "real" proportion wise.

[EPK]

A very wonderful sculpt/build. Perhaps however, the flamer should be a tad large and intimidating? I understand that the power fist is not a power fist but in my opinion that arm/hand in general seems compositionally disproportionate still. A slightly larger flamer could help balance it out. Maybe just protruding past the fist a tad.

 

Otherwise, I can't wait to see if with paint.

[Argyle]

The proportions are a bit off...yeah, for a human. As far as Space marines go the proportions are spot on to what gw makes currently. Just look at a regular terminator, the shoulders are too high and the torso's arent long enough. Same thing you see here.

 

I'm gonna move past any further proportion debate and focus instead on what I think matters here:

 

Your sculpting skills are inspirational and then some. The Green and grey stuff work is immaculate, very very rarely do you see someone able to create such smooth surfaces with it. The posing is spot on, a real confident feel to the model which is the same feeling you should have in this creation.

 

Bottom line, I am thoroughly impressed. Its not often I find myself revisiting the same thread several times but I have done exactly that over the last few days with this one just to stare at your creations and try and convince myself I should try something like this. Well done sir....well done.

[Dechande]

Thanks Argyle, that is very much appreciated. Main thing I find for getting smooth green/grey etc. stuff is using clay shapers, the biggest you can get away with especially when doing armour, keep the shaper moist too. I lick them (ewww lol) as I use them so they don't stick, water is too thin. When it's dry you can tidy up with a fine file if needed, and don't be afraid to add more putty and smooth out with a large shaper again.

 

I'm well underway with a set of true scale terminator parts, when I have some finished parts I'll put up some new pics. On that note, I think I have put this thread in the wrong place, perhaps it should be in the WIP area?..

[Rider-75]

Get him painted then it can stay here

[appiah4]

I believe this could help with the shoulder argument:

 

http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/5369/marinesize750.jpg

 

EDIT: Yeah that basketball player is.. well.. I don't know, that one looks a bit too big, 15% too big or so.