DominicJ Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 The power maul has stirred up a pretty serious amount of dislike on these boards. I think its pretty unfair. The maul is a fantastic weapon. Its only weakness is against T4 3+ Saves. Guard and Eldar get Instant Deathed, dreadnaughts and defilers can be glanced, T9 can be hurt. All swords have in their favour, is that they punch through power armour. Now I know, 75% of the armies we face will be power armour, but they are likely to have serious amounts of +2, and only more as time goes on. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259252-in-defence-of-the-power-maul/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
sp4rky Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 I love power mauls. Wounding most monstrous creatures on a 4+, glancing most transports on a 4+, and as you mentioned they instagib guard, eldar, tau, and anything else toughness 3. Yes, it's only AP4 but when you're wounding marines on a 2+ that helps towards letting them fail a save -_- Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259252-in-defence-of-the-power-maul/#findComment-3153077 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knaru Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 And on a wounded Lemartes, it's even better! 8 WS5 S8 re-roll to-hit/to-wound attacks at I6 on the charge? That has a very good possibility of killing a T4 2+ save character outright, probably before he even takes a swing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259252-in-defence-of-the-power-maul/#findComment-3153119 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitadelArmyGuy Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 Math is why the Maul gets no love. Furious Charge with rerolls (ie Chaplain) versus a WS4, 3+ Sv, T6: WS4 Power Sword deals 1.00 wounds. WS5 Maul deals 0.79 wounds. Of course WS5 Power Fist deals 2.22 wounds so there's your winner really. If you truly have your heart set on taking a Chaplain your gonna want that fist. Which is also the crux of argument against the Maul. If you need high Str, take a fist. If you need to kill MEQ, sword wins. Mauls are really only great versus Xenos, so if you don't mind tailoring a list then they can be good I suppose. EDIT: NO Furious Charge, Ordinary charge with rerolls (ie Chaplain) versus a WS4, 3+ Sv, T6: WS4 Power Sword deals 0.5 wounds. WS5 Maul deals 0.59 wounds. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259252-in-defence-of-the-power-maul/#findComment-3153135 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 Nothing good ever came of mathematics. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259252-in-defence-of-the-power-maul/#findComment-3153137 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axira Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 Can a Regular sergant take a Power Maul? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259252-in-defence-of-the-power-maul/#findComment-3153189 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warsmith IV Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 Can a Regular sergant take a Power Maul? Any model that can take a power weapon can choose for it to be a power maul (if modelled appropriately) - so yes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259252-in-defence-of-the-power-maul/#findComment-3153199 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperors Immortals Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 Nothing good ever came of mathematics. Lies, damn lies and statistics. Take anything, theyll all smash face on DC. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259252-in-defence-of-the-power-maul/#findComment-3153284 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysere Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 Are mauls the best option of all the power weapons? No. Are they bad? Most certainly not. With a power maul and a combi-flamer, (and a power axe but he never swung it) my BT MoS killed 3 squads and a tank (that had rear armor 11) without any help what so ever. With Suffer not and swinging at S7 he single-handedly killed 2 Killa Kans in CC. He's beaten a Triarch Stalker in CC before. The best part about it is this is free for a chaplain or possibly a librarian. This is part of their basic wargear. If you have to spend points to get something like a maul your probably gonna be netter off with a fist unless you don't have the few points, but people who come with it really don't need anything else except maybe something for terminators. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259252-in-defence-of-the-power-maul/#findComment-3153286 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morollan Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 The maul is a fantastic weapon.Its only weakness is against 75% of the armies we face Forgive the poetic license in the editing of your original post but I think that sums up the argument against mauls for me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259252-in-defence-of-the-power-maul/#findComment-3153328 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominicJ Posted August 20, 2012 Author Share Posted August 20, 2012 Oh don't get me wrong, they are not fist replacements, but they aren't bad, and personal, i think they are the best powerweapon, a class which does suck. If i buy a pw, its a fist, but I'm happy with free mails over axes or swords. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259252-in-defence-of-the-power-maul/#findComment-3153345 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominicJ Posted August 22, 2012 Author Share Posted August 22, 2012 Reclusiarch plus furious charge plus power mail equals dead dread. To be fair, a krak rocket had already immobed it, but still, whack. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259252-in-defence-of-the-power-maul/#findComment-3155055 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnorriSnorrison Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 After playing Lemartes in my first two games in this edition, I can say the maul isn't that bad, especially not against armies like Dark Eldar! Against marines, Lemartes has that edge over normal chaplains thanks to the Black Rage. His own special rule is even better yet, after taking that wound you have 8 S8 attacks that re-roll to hit and wound on the charge. AP4, but hey, no-ones going to challenge you(maybe terminator capn's, and if that happens you have made a mistake) that knows about his strength. You either pop the character in a challenge or mow down half the squad. You're almost guaranteed to get 6-8 wounds on the charge. Now, to get more to the power maul: In an edition where powerweapons can't pierce TDA and only the wolves get a strength bonus with their PWs, the maul is a nice alternative with that +2 Strenght. And for the time you're not fighting marines, you get a serious advantage, maybe even instant death against the foul xenos! Snorri Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259252-in-defence-of-the-power-maul/#findComment-3155059 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Carmine Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 The maul is a fantastic weapon.Its only weakness is against 75% of the armies we face Forgive the poetic license in the editing of your original post but I think that sums up the argument against mauls for me. It'll all depend on your local metagame, I face enough Orks and Eldar to make it a viable choice for some of my sergeants, your mileage may of course vary. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259252-in-defence-of-the-power-maul/#findComment-3155068 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morollan Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 After playing Lemartes in my first two games in this edition, I can say the maul isn't that bad, especially not against armies like Dark Eldar! Against marines, Lemartes has that edge over normal chaplains thanks to the Black Rage. His own special rule is even better yet, after taking that wound you have 8 S8 attacks that re-roll to hit and wound on the charge. AP4, but hey, no-ones going to challenge you(maybe terminator capn's, and if that happens you have made a mistake) that knows about his strength. You either pop the character in a challenge or mow down half the squad. You're almost guaranteed to get 6-8 wounds on the charge. The counter to that is that you would still have got the same number of wounds in 5e but they would all have been unsaved wounds! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259252-in-defence-of-the-power-maul/#findComment-3155089 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunken Angel Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 After playing Lemartes in my first two games in this edition, I can say the maul isn't that bad, especially not against armies like Dark Eldar! Against marines, Lemartes has that edge over normal chaplains thanks to the Black Rage. His own special rule is even better yet, after taking that wound you have 8 S8 attacks that re-roll to hit and wound on the charge. AP4, but hey, no-ones going to challenge you(maybe terminator capn's, and if that happens you have made a mistake) that knows about his strength. You either pop the character in a challenge or mow down half the squad. You're almost guaranteed to get 6-8 wounds on the charge. Now, to get more to the power maul: In an edition where powerweapons can't pierce TDA and only the wolves get a strength bonus with their PWs, the maul is a nice alternative with that +2 Strenght. And for the time you're not fighting marines, you get a serious advantage, maybe even instant death against the foul xenos! Snorri I hope you are right Snorri I so want to continue running Lemartes in 6th, I think that chaplains were nerfed badly you either have a crozius thats AP4 I model or a powerfist. To me if I need a fist its on a line model, there is only really one chaplain that can make a maul work and it is Lemartes, everything else is so-so. You might as well take a libby with some nasty CC or shooting powers at least he gets to choose his weapon unlike the whimpy chaplain stuck with his own rod of office or a power fist. Dont get me wrong PF are not bad but to have an IC weapon selection gimped like this makes his use less than optimal in so many situations. I am pretty much resigned to taking either Lemartes or Astorath and thats it, I am not unhappy with this either. Libbys are so much better now and compete aggressively for that HQ slot inhead of chaplains. If Lemartes with a maul is good Astoraths axe is now better and unlocks DC options. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259252-in-defence-of-the-power-maul/#findComment-3155134 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SevenExxes Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Don't forget the power maul is also a concussive weapon. My TDA Reclusiarch challenged a Demon Prince and beat him down, only taking one wound. In subsequent turns he then glanced a chaos dread to death and blew up a traitor Leman Russ all whilst leading a five man bolter DC. Unfortunately my tacticals were overrun by Plague Marines and I lost the game. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259252-in-defence-of-the-power-maul/#findComment-3155163 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pascalnz Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 another thing, power mauls are far better against terminator armour than power swords:P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259252-in-defence-of-the-power-maul/#findComment-3155177 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Power Axe is king Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259252-in-defence-of-the-power-maul/#findComment-3155273 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysere Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Power Axe is king That's why I run both. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259252-in-defence-of-the-power-maul/#findComment-3155278 Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Power Axe is king But fists are better... B) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259252-in-defence-of-the-power-maul/#findComment-3155297 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Power Axe is king But fists are better... B) And more expensive. And the "better"ness is debateable when you get to a model with a Pistol. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259252-in-defence-of-the-power-maul/#findComment-3155304 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominicJ Posted August 22, 2012 Author Share Posted August 22, 2012 Dont forget to take into account invulnerable saves Wounding on 2+/4+ and saving on 3+/4+ A reclusiarch/captain fight last night. My relusiarch lost 1 "point" on his save, but gained two points on his to wound roles. Rec still loses math hammer due to Weapon skill, but a Captain sword is going to lose to a captain maul Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259252-in-defence-of-the-power-maul/#findComment-3155335 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthanor Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Power Axe is king But fists are better... B) And more expensive. And the "better"ness is debateable when you get to a model with a Pistol. (Assuming no other S bonus) Against T4, 4+ saves (and worse T and/or saves), the maul + pistol will be better than a fist since both wound on 2s and ignore armor saves. However, the fist will cause ID on T4 which the maul won't. Against 3+ saves or better, the fist wins. It is slower but it kills for every wound instead of a third or sixth of the wounds. Against T5+ the fist will be superior too, it is better to wound on 2s with one less attack than to wound on 5s with one more. Any AV, the fist is better (ap2, more glances/pens) The maul is an excellent weapon against xenos of all forms and as such makes a wonderful crozius. If a model comes with a power weapon (or a maul specifically), it may not be worth it to invest in a fist, depending on the armies you face. If you can chose the weapon, the fist offers enough to be worth the extra points over any one power weapon. However, neither the fist or any given kind of power weapon is a no brainer. Dont forget to take into account invulnerable savesWounding on 2+/4+ and saving on 3+/4+ A reclusiarch/captain fight last night. My relusiarch lost 1 "point" on his save, but gained two points on his to wound roles. Rec still loses math hammer due to Weapon skill, but a Captain sword is going to lose to a captain maul Good point! And especially given the concussive rule, which makes the captain with maul strike first on any round following one in which a wound went through. It is even more unfair if captains take something for 2+ or 3++. Maul still is S6, sword is.. just a normal ccw! A maul is not a bad power weapon, by far! As Lysere was pointing above, the maul also works especially well in conjunction with another weapon, axe, sword or fist, to cover weaknesses. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259252-in-defence-of-the-power-maul/#findComment-3155346 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Power Axe is king But fists are better... :cuss And more expensive. And the "better"ness is debateable when you get to a model with a Pistol. (Assuming no other S bonus) Against T4, 4+ saves (and worse T and/or saves), the maul + pistol Axe, not Maul - both are AP2. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259252-in-defence-of-the-power-maul/#findComment-3155440 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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