In defence of the power maul

[Lysere]

The way I look at it is if the unit is meant for fighting normal marines, then the sword is the better option, axe is for terminators and other 2+ save models, Fist is my vehicle hunter, and Maul works for everything else. If I don't have enough mauls then which ever is closest to what I want is what I'll run.

[Arthanor]

Axe, not Maul - both are AP2.

Ooh, right. Silly me thinking of power mauls in this thread :cuss

 

I still can't disagree that the fist is more expensive, but the axe is rarely superior to a fist. Both are ap2 i1, so no win/loss here. For a model with 2 attacks base and a pistol, the axe is better against up to T4. And the advantage is smaller for models with 3+ attacks. So for 10pts, you lose almost nothing to gain ID and the ability to threaten T6+ and AV10-12. Axes are not such a good weapon for HQs, for sergeants maybe, for DC and models with 1 attacks (ex.: BT initiates), certainly!

[SamaNagol]

I will certainly use Axes on DC because they are hidden. I will use a sword or Claw on a Sergeant UNLESS I am gonna put a Storm Shield on him then he gets a Power Fist

[knife&fork]

So the maul makes short work of 4+ units, agreed. But how often do you find yourself struggling vs a 4+ unit? I can't think of many and I can think of even less that have high T and 4+ where the maul might really shine.

[dadieau]

Played Space Wolves yesterday, my Chappy ended up facing off with a Thunder Wolf Cavalry fig with Storm Shield. I haven't done the math but I felt lucky that my Chappy won. I don't think it would have happened if he had a Power Wep.

[DominicJ]

Remember, even on this thread, there are people talking about equipping sergeants with storm shields to counter swords, claws and even axes.

A stormshield is pointless against a maul

 

not saying take it, but don't discount it either

[Killax]

I can only copy what has been said. Offcourse it depends on your metagame, however metagames in general tend to be heavy on:

 

The maul is a fantastic weapon.

Its only weakness is against T4 3+ Saves.

 

That and the fact you like to be able to beat your opponents heavy CC unit (which often has that 3+ save, if not better) makes him to mweh.

 

In case of Blood Angels, you could make somewhat the same comperison to flamers and meltaguns.

 

A flamer is good but a melta gun is better, depending on meta, but in the end you want to make sure whatever you encounter dies even if that means it could potentially do more against lager cheap units.

[DominicJ]

I,m actually a big fan of flamers too. People underestimate what happens when a tactical squad takes ten hits, which is easy with two flamers

[shaun03]

We all know by now each power weapon has it owns pros/cons.

So is not right weapon for all the jobs, however seeing that GW decied to give us choices other just a fists and power weapons is actually a good thing. Yeah it cause some headaches and swapping of weapons around but in the end. It makes for more customized units.

 

Back on track the maul should not be over looked, when paired in with power weapons it really shines. In DC it makes for a great suprise "stunning" high W things giving a chance for other power weapons to finish it off.

 

Glancing walkers to death havent done that yet, but dose seam like it could be done.

 

Is the maul the endall be-all power weapon no. Should it be giving a fair chance yes. I don't use mathhammer I rather just play test and go from there and so far the maul hasn't let me down.

 

IMO mixing it with a SS is a cheap option to a fist good if you hurting for points. But IMO I'll take a LC/SS over a maul.

But of you do manage to "stun" a MC and use your SS to survive the rest of CC it may prove usefull.

Maybe some more testing will be done with that.

 

Not to get off topic but to support the flamer vs meltaguns, two flamer and sgt w/ hand flamers makes a great obj holder/taker. Haven't had much of issue with sq yet.

[DominicJ]

That was pretty much my point.

 

The maul isn't a must take, but i remember people saying they had ruined lemmy by giving him one.

 

Its a great weapon if you consider pretty much anything but meqs, be that rosarious/halo , or t3, or 2+ save, mauls are handy bits of kit.

[CitadelArmyGuy]

I believe it comes down to Problem Solving.

 

Lightning Claws help you solve MEQ, and Shred means you still wound a lot vs high T and/or 2+ Sv. A Str4 WS4 (FC) Versus TEQ (WS4 T4 2+ Sv): Maul inflicts 0.278 failed saves, LC inflicts 0.208 failed saves... so you're really not losing much. Versus MEQ with SS, Maul deals 0.556 failed saves, LC deals 0.417 failed saves... so Maul is only 33% better. (Also note LCs nearly always score more wounds than Swords, I won't rehash the old Sword-vs-LC discussion here... suffice it to say LC always wins unless vs T3).

 

Hidden Axes help you fight 2+ Sv cheaply, and Str6 (FC) has been more than adequate to kill most vehicles in my experience (esp when combined with supporting Krak grenades from others in the Unit).

 

PF also kill 2+ and are far better against all AV, especially walkers and high rear-armor obviously. Only discussion here is the cost and initiative.

 

 

 

So the problem is that Mauls don't solve any specific problems. They kill 4+ awesomely, but did 4+ ever really need much of an answer? They sortof glance AV12, but not really. They wound MCs, but Concussive only comes in play if they fail a save so you can't count on it. Mauls are just one of those odd "jack of all trades, master of none" generalist weapons... and so are Chainswords. Mauls won't do much vs AV13, you won't glance AV12 to death (5's...) and while you get lots of wounds, you can get lots of wounds with other weapons too (PF or LC). With JPs providing very high mobility, BA are more capable than most codices when it comes to Target Selection, meaning usually you will be better off with a specialist weapon (BRB pun intended :tu: )