WG Vrox Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Someone that I previously hit with Murderous Hurricane wants to move so he rolls his 2d6 and gets snake eyes, he then says he does not want to move thus negating the need to roll the dangerous terrain dice. two different rules set in 6th edition Is this allowed? If the rune priest is upgraded to master of runes and fired MH in my shooting phase, can he then use his second token to shoot Murderous Hurricane as a overwatch ability hitting on 6s? If so does that unit then have to move as if in difficult and dangerous terrain? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259327-rune-priest-and-murderous-hurricane/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Someone that I previously hit with Murderous Hurricane wants to move so he rolls his 2d6 and gets snake eyes, he then says he does not want to move thus negating the need to roll the dangerous terrain dice. two different rules set in 6th edition Is this allowed? If the rune priest is upgraded to master of runes and fired MH in my shooting phase, can he then use his second token to shoot Murderous Hurricane as a overwatch ability hitting on 6s? If so does that unit then have to move as if in difficult and dangerous terrain? The first one he is good not to move and thus force a dangerous terrain test. The distance rolled fr the difficult terrain is not moving distance but what distance they can move if they choose to. No, because although Overwatch is not a shooting phase, pg 69 tells you that it is based on turn, not phase. 3rd paragraph down. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259327-rune-priest-and-murderous-hurricane/#findComment-3154145 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Someone that I previously hit with Murderous Hurricane wants to move so he rolls his 2d6 and gets snake eyes, he then says he does not want to move thus negating the need to roll the dangerous terrain dice. two different rules set in 6th edition Is this allowed? If the rune priest is upgraded to master of runes and fired MH in my shooting phase, can he then use his second token to shoot Murderous Hurricane as a overwatch ability hitting on 6s? If so does that unit then have to move as if in difficult and dangerous terrain? The first one he is good not to move and thus force a dangerous terrain test. The distance rolled fr the difficult terrain is not moving distance but what distance they can move if they choose to. Correct. No, because although Overwatch is not a shooting phase, pg 69 tells you that it is based on turn, not phase. 3rd paragraph down. Incorrect, because 'turn' means 'player turn' unless otherwise specified and the Murderous Hurricane power is being used once in your Shooting Phase and then again in your opponent's Assault Phase - different player turns. As for the rest of the question - The steps involved are "1. Declare Charge", "2. Resolve Overwatch", and "3. Roll for Difficult Terrain". So yes, if your opponent declares that he is charging the RP unit, you use Murderous Hurricane as his Overwatch shooting, and then your opponent rolls for Difficult Terrain as he is now affected by the power. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259327-rune-priest-and-murderous-hurricane/#findComment-3154235 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jester262 Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 I thought snapfire could only be used with abilities and guns that require you to make a BS test? Since you don't roll to hit with Murderous Hurricane is that legal? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259327-rune-priest-and-murderous-hurricane/#findComment-3154373 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jester262 Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 I just looked in the book. It specifically sais that any ability that does not use a BS roll cannot be used to snap shot Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259327-rune-priest-and-murderous-hurricane/#findComment-3154383 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 I just looked in the book. It specifically sais that any ability that does not use a BS roll cannot be used to snap shot Correct, and Murderous Hurricane gets 3d6 hits. At 5am I was confusing Murderous Hurricane with Living Lightning (d6 shots, rolled to-hit). :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259327-rune-priest-and-murderous-hurricane/#findComment-3154473 Share on other sites More sharing options...
narf Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 however it is a PSA and therefore still needs to roll to hit. Is the FAQ still stating that even if not hit by the power, the target unit still takes difficult and dangerous terrain tests? I prefer the auto hits, which would stop you casting it as an overwatch attack, but depends on what the rules state. Are any of the Sw powers listed ie witchfire etc? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259327-rune-priest-and-murderous-hurricane/#findComment-3154480 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 however it is a PSA and therefore still needs to roll to hit. No, because the Murderous Hurricane rules state that you score 3d6 hits. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259327-rune-priest-and-murderous-hurricane/#findComment-3154485 Share on other sites More sharing options...
narf Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 check the space wolf FAQ page 4, states that the unit is Affected by MH, even if the power fails to HIT or wound (emphasis mine), hence this is a psychic shooting attack, you get a roll a nominal dice, regardless of the result the effect still occurs. To me this means that it is a psychic shooting attack, and does need to roll a dice Re hitting, the result is then ignored (basically moves to auto hit) To me this means that it can be used in overwatch as you roll to hit, then ignore the hit roll, then work out the effects. So is MH a PSA? - Yes Does it roll to Hit? - Yes Can a PSA that rolls to hit be used on overwatch? - Yes Does the result of the "to Hit" roll matter? - NO. From the Above details can this be used in overwatch? - Yes? what do others think? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259327-rune-priest-and-murderous-hurricane/#findComment-3154504 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iacton Qruze Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Personally, I think you're adding another step in there. It's just as easy (and has no less backing) for me to state that the wording of MH (that it inflicts 3d6 HITS) is implied as an exception to the rule that PSA's have to roll to hit, as it is for you to state that because of the wording of an answer in a FAQ, that implies that you have to roll to hit, overriding the wording in the psychic power. I have no dogs in this fight anymore, but that's my opinion on the matter. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259327-rune-priest-and-murderous-hurricane/#findComment-3154528 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 DS has it right regarding the turn definition. I jumped the gun on that one as you will not be getting Overwatch in your turn, but your opponents turn. MH does not require that you roll to hit. The PSA is a codex exception to the general rules for a psychic shooting attack. The FAQ does not change this. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259327-rune-priest-and-murderous-hurricane/#findComment-3155556 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belfast Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 From the Above details can this be used in overwatch? - Yes? Nope! pg 21 BRB - Weapons and models that cannot fire snap shots cannot fire overwatch. pg 13 BRB - It's important to note that any shooting attack that does not use a ballistic skill - such as the necron monolith's portal of exile - (or in our case MH) cannot be 'fired' as a snap shot Since MH doesn't roll against a ballistic skill but instead rolls 3 d6 to define how many hits they take, it does not meet the prerequisites for snap shots which means it cannot be fired as overwatch. Edit - Even if I'm wrong with my interpretation, the dangerous terrain effect has no viable effect except for the wounds it causes since "NEXT TURN, that unit treats..." Basically, since the dangerous terrain effect only happens on the next player turn, they will treat all terrain as dangerous during YOUR TURN... the application only really applies if they flee from CC and that would make it pretty useless... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259327-rune-priest-and-murderous-hurricane/#findComment-3155671 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gen. Confusion Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Murderous hurricane does indeed roll to hit. It is a psychic shooting attack. Also look at the current space wolves FAQ. "Does Murderous Hurricane require the power to hit or wound its target to affect them? A. No, a target unit is affected by Murderous Hurricane even if the power fails to hit or wound." Why would they reference to hit if you did not roll to hit? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259327-rune-priest-and-murderous-hurricane/#findComment-3155789 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulfebane Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Murderous hurricane does indeed roll to hit. It is a psychic shooting attack. Also look at the current space wolves FAQ. "Does Murderous Hurricane require the power to hit or wound its target to affect them? A. No, a target unit is affected by Murderous Hurricane even if the power fails to hit or wound." Why would they reference to hit if you did not roll to hit? Stop trying to fit it to what you need it to be. FAQ > CODEX > BRB, yes, but the FAQ doesn't clarify the ambiguity, only add to it. Therefore, seek clarity in the codex: "The target unit takes 3D6 Strength 3 hits at AP -. " Regardless of what the BRB says regarding what is required of a PSA, for this power our codex trumps it, and the codex clearly says it hits. Honestly, this has been debated and resolved months ago. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259327-rune-priest-and-murderous-hurricane/#findComment-3155812 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Murderous hurricane does indeed roll to hit. It is a psychic shooting attack. Also look at the current space wolves FAQ. "Does Murderous Hurricane require the power to hit or wound its target to affect them? A. No, a target unit is affected by Murderous Hurricane even if the power fails to hit or wound." Why would they reference to hit if you did not roll to hit? This has been debated to death in other threads. One explanation is that a target unit outside of 18" will still suffer the effects of the DT, even though the power automatically misses(with the 3d6 hits) due to being out of range. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259327-rune-priest-and-murderous-hurricane/#findComment-3155903 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gen. Confusion Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 After finding the thread mentioned by dswanick and rereading the rule book and codex. I have decided that you guys are correct. Murderous hurricane does not roll to hit. I stand corrected. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259327-rune-priest-and-murderous-hurricane/#findComment-3156185 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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