Recommend some Chaosy Novels

[Magnus Thane]

Interestingly I loved the NL trilogy but like you I was dissapointed in Legion. In fact i never finished it. Kinda made me stop reading the HH series and by now I don't want to pick it all up again as so much has come out.

[Jacinda]

Soul Hunter is slow at first while he brings in all the characters but after that the rest of the story (and books) move fast and are intriguing.

 

My favorite "Chaosy" book is either "Holidays in Hell" by PJ O'Rourke or "Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas" by Hunter Thompson. :)

[Iron Sage]

Be careful about the Dan Abnett comments. He's very good. But the fanboyism is sometimes almost creepy. And you get zapped for criticism towards him.

 

Fanboy??

 

I am merely saying that he is much, much better than the rest, and for everyone that has ever read a serious novel that should be fairly obvious, or would you really not agree?

The guy asked about what was good. When someone does that, is it not fair to tell him/her what you view as the best?

 

As I said, most of the Black Library books are written by people who cannot write at all, so obviously its nice when someone who can actually write a good story with interesting characters (like Abnett), writes a book and helps creating more fluff for the setting we all love :)

[Iron Sage]

Interestingly I loved the NL trilogy but like you I was dissapointed in Legion. In fact i never finished it. Kinda made me stop reading the HH series and by now I don't want to pick it all up again as so much has come out.

 

I thought Legion was fairly well written for a black library novel actually, and one of the better HH novels. I myself stopped reading HH novels after those dreadfully bad caliban novels featuring Dark Angels. Written both by an obviously bad writer and with a completly uninteresting story. Legion however, while hardly the best of the HH books, (the 3 first are the best by far, at least in my opinion). IMO Legion made the Alphas more and not less interesting, and I for one hope there will be a sequal as I would not mind GW allowing Black library to reveal a bit more about that most secretive of legions.

 

Then again, diversity of opinions must surely be the flavour of Chaos, or would you not agree ? :)

[Pariah Mk.231]

Soul Hunter is slow at first while he brings in all the characters but after that the rest of the story (and books) move fast and are intriguing.

 

I read all of it and enjoyed it, but like I said, not enough to buy the other two when they came out. If I had to single out what about it didn't do it for me, I'd have to say it was Talos, I didn't find myself caring about him the way I cared about Sahaal in Lord of the Night (though I did like how ADB tipped his hat to that novel by giving Sahaal a cameo and I have to give him praise for employing such a simple yet effective means of weaving his work into a larger tapestry).

[Pariah Mk.231]

Interestingly I loved the NL trilogy but like you I was dissapointed in Legion. In fact i never finished it. Kinda made me stop reading the HH series and by now I don't want to pick it all up again as so much has come out.

 

I thought Legion was fairly well written for a black library novel actually, and one of the better HH novels. I myself stopped reading HH novels after those dreadfully bad caliban novels featuring Dark Angels. Written both by an obviously bad writer and with a completly uninteresting story. Legion however, while hardly the best of the HH books, (the 3 first are the best by far, at least in my opinion). IMO Legion made the Alphas more and not less interesting, and I for one hope there will be a sequal as I would not mind GW allowing Black library to reveal a bit more about that most secretive of legions.

 

Then again, diversity of opinions must surely be the flavour of Chaos, or would you not agree ? :)

 

Oh, it's not how it's written that I loathe, it's the content itself. The addition of Omegon and the altered justification for the legion siding with Horus annoyed the hell out of me. I can deal with minor fluff changes and the odd retcon, but that was not only crossing the line, but erasing the line and drawing a new one where the idea ended up and hoping nobody noticed the line had been moved.

[Captain Semper]

Execution Hour, by Gordon Rennie.

 

I'm so happy when people recognize that little gem of a book... My name is not just a happy coincidence! :)

 

 

And I'm with Iron Sage on the DA novels...

[Iron Sage]

Interestingly I loved the NL trilogy but like you I was dissapointed in Legion. In fact i never finished it. Kinda made me stop reading the HH series and by now I don't want to pick it all up again as so much has come out.

 

I thought Legion was fairly well written for a black library novel actually, and one of the better HH novels. I myself stopped reading HH novels after those dreadfully bad caliban novels featuring Dark Angels. Written both by an obviously bad writer and with a completly uninteresting story. Legion however, while hardly the best of the HH books, (the 3 first are the best by far, at least in my opinion). IMO Legion made the Alphas more and not less interesting, and I for one hope there will be a sequal as I would not mind GW allowing Black library to reveal a bit more about that most secretive of legions.

 

Then again, diversity of opinions must surely be the flavour of Chaos, or would you not agree ? :)

 

Oh, it's not how it's written that I loathe, it's the content itself. The addition of Omegon and the altered justification for the legion siding with Horus annoyed the hell out of me. I can deal with minor fluff changes and the odd retcon, but that was not only crossing the line, but erasing the line and drawing a new one where the idea ended up and hoping nobody noticed the line had been moved.

 

I sincerly respect you opinon of course, but I must confess, I liked the "I am Alpharius!", "No, I am Alpharius!". "Guys I am also Alpharius!" thing. Made it intriguing to be honest. As far as I understood, it was also sanctioned by GW in case that is important.

 

What I love about Alpha Legion is that...Are they traitors? Or... are they STILL LOYAL in their own strange way? I LOVE that bit. It gives one so much fluff oppurtunities :yes:

They are also the only Legion not residing in the Eye, but in small cells WITHIN the empire, seeking to either tear it down from within, or....as the novel indicates....make the empire strong by giving them a potent enemy within. Its impossible to say. Pretty much what I love with that legion. Nobody really knows what they are up to.

[Iron Sage]

Execution Hour, by Gordon Rennie.

 

I'm so happy when people recognize that little gem of a book... My name is not just a happy coincidence! :)

 

 

And I'm with Iron Sage on the DA novels...

 

Lol, yes they were rather underwhelming, were they not ? :yes:

 

The most secretive of the loyalist legions turned into something very uninspiring =(

Which is sad, since DE are actually a very "cool" legion/chapter with pretty nice fluff.

[Magnus Thane]

Execution Hour, by Gordon Rennie.

 

I'm so happy when people recognize that little gem of a book... My name is not just a happy coincidence! :)

 

 

And I'm with Iron Sage on the DA novels...

 

Lol, yes they were rather underwhelming, were they not ? :yes:

 

The most secretive of the loyalist legions turned into something very uninspiring =(

Which is sad, since DE are actually a very "cool" legion/chapter with pretty nice fluff.

 

Agreed. Read the first. And I like the DA painting them as we speak but... meh.

I liked the basic ideas. The Knightly orders, the monster hunting etc but... I dunno it never went anywhere interesting.

[Iron Sage]

Execution Hour, by Gordon Rennie.

 

I'm so happy when people recognize that little gem of a book... My name is not just a happy coincidence! :D

 

 

And I'm with Iron Sage on the DA novels...

 

Lol, yes they were rather underwhelming, were they not ? ;)

 

The most secretive of the loyalist legions turned into something very uninspiring =(

Which is sad, since DE are actually a very "cool" legion/chapter with pretty nice fluff.

 

Agreed. Read the first. And I like the DA painting them as we speak but... meh.

I liked the basic ideas. The Knightly orders, the monster hunting etc but... I dunno it never went anywhere interesting.

 

IMO the problem was not the fluff within so much that the story itself was hard to finish since it was badly written and frankly not very exciting at all. As you say, one "waited" throughout the novel for something exciting to happen, and it never really did. I realise some people did not like the above mentioned Legion due to fluff changes etc,, but at least that was a good story. The DE was sadly a very terrible story and frankly I waged war with myself to finish it at all.

[incinerator950]

Basically the reason I avoid reading Black Library.

[Captain Semper]

Basically the reason I avoid reading Black Library.

 

Well, I think that's a bit harsh... So some books are below expectations but are quite a few that are really good and explore areas of the Universe no Codex has the luxury to delve into... I say the NL trilogy, the Word Bearers trilogy and the Iron Warriors novel are really really good books to read. Also the HH series provides a wealth of informations - some times controvertial, sometimes bad but mostly good, well thought and well written.

 

So yeah, avoiding BL books altogether might shield you from some sub par books but will also deprive you of great many excellent stories! Your call.

[Iron Sage]

Basically the reason I avoid reading Black Library.

 

Well, I think that's a bit harsh... So some books are below expectations but are quite a few that are really good and explore areas of the Universe no Codex has the luxury to delve into... I say the NL trilogy, the Word Bearers trilogy and the Iron Warriors novel are really really good books to read. Also the HH series provides a wealth of informations - some times controvertial, sometimes bad but mostly good, well thought and well written.

 

So yeah, avoiding BL books altogether might shield you from some sub par books but will also deprive you of great many excellent stories! Your call.

 

I would agree with you there. Iron Warriors, Nightlords, HH and Word bearers books are actually decent. And the Nightlords series is actually good as well, and not only decent. Though ADB, if you are reading this, I think most of your readers would greatly prefer it if you tried to include a bit more dialogue and more importantly, your novels are more than a tad too short and thus feels like half a book I confess. Thats my opinion though, though I suspect I am not alone in that one.

[A D-B]

Though ADB, if you are reading this, I think most of your readers would greatly prefer it if you tried to include a bit more dialogue and more importantly, your novels are more than a tad too short and thus feels like half a book I confess. Thats my opinion though, though I suspect I am not alone in that one.

 

Um. I dunno. They're as long as any other novel (the standard is 100,000 words) and longer than many - Void Stalker was 115,000 words, and The First Heretic was 130,000. And I've never, in four years of reviews and feedback, seen a suggestion that my work lacks dialogue or feels like half a book. So "most of your readers" is a bit of a push. Interesting points, though.

[Iron Sage]

Though ADB, if you are reading this, I think most of your readers would greatly prefer it if you tried to include a bit more dialogue and more importantly, your novels are more than a tad too short and thus feels like half a book I confess. Thats my opinion though, though I suspect I am not alone in that one.

 

Um. I dunno. They're as long as any other novel (the standard is 100,000 words) and longer than many - Void Stalker was 115,000 words, and The First Heretic was 130,000. And I've never, in four years of reviews and feedback, seen a suggestion that my work lacks dialogue or feels like half a book. So "most of your readers" is a bit of a push. Interesting points, though.

 

Well, you`ll have to forgive me then. In my opinion, almost all of the Black Library novels are way too short, and thus moves "too fast" and are "too scenematic" and often lacks depth, but you`ll note that this is my personal opinion.

Regardless, as I said, I am a fan of your work and I was merely seeking to front some constructive criticism from my, at least, point of view. Maybe a small part of the reason why I like Abnetts work so much has to do with the fact that many of his novels are longer, I dont know (I have not cheacked word count, so forgive me if I am actually wrong, and if this is the case, then I have to change what I said above to "feels longer"). Never the less, as I said, I find your novels extremly refreshing, your personal style of writing clearly differing from the rest, so much that I have even bought the audio books, which is something I normally never do. For me, you made the Nightlords far more an interesting legion. That is often the problem I feel, since marines are larger than life and frankly if were honest very much clichès, that they often tend to be portrayed as completly lacking personality and everything else that makes a protagonist in a story "interesting".

You have, in my opinion, succeeded in making that small coterie of misfits interesting as "persons" (I cannot at the moment think of any other black library authour that has made marine characters interesting and believable, so thats is at least a compliment). I do think however, that what I view as you succeeding to make them "real" persons, also makes me long for even wider depth of personalities and more dialogue, since as I said, there is none of that from other black library authours, who all tend to make them black-white american hollywood heroes or anti-heroes full of stupid one-liners (yes, I like British crime series better than the american unrealistic crap where everyone looks like a model and are always clean etc., etc...)

 

Anyway, thanks for writing those stories and I hope you continue to do so! I feel you can become a very good sci-fi writer indeed :lol:

 

Regards, Magnus

 

Granted, your probably correct when you arrested me on "most of your readers". Let us make that "some of your readers" and I believe we`re okay :P

 

Edit: What helps makes your stories better than most in the 40k universe, is actually Octavia and Septimus. As above mentioned, marines are larger than life, and it truly helps when you have "normal" humans with normal human feelings and longings view these horrible marines from their perspective. I, too be honest, find the parts of your novels featuring octavia and Septimus actually more, and not less, interesting than the parts where they are not "on location", as they help us view these marines from a much needed human perspective. So...in the future, if you are planning to kill off characters, try keep those humans along or replace them with someone just as interesting and human please. They do help make your stories far more interesting! Again, this is all my opinion, but I thought you might like to hear readers opinions, even though some of it is slightly criticial...

[Tranc]

Though ADB, if you are reading this, I think most of your readers would greatly prefer it if you tried to include a bit more dialogue and more importantly, your novels are more than a tad too short and thus feels like half a book I confess. Thats my opinion though, though I suspect I am not alone in that one.

 

I would say Aaron writes some of the best dialogue of any Black Library author. I remember reading some other Black Library publications (it may have been an Ultramarines novel), and thinking there's been no dialogue for 5-10 pages, just lots of boring description!

 

That said, I don't think you can have too much dialogue, or too long a book if it's by A D-B :)

 

I've seen Aaron criticized for not enough combat/action in his novels, but that's just moronic.

 

-Tranc

[Iron Sage]

Though ADB, if you are reading this, I think most of your readers would greatly prefer it if you tried to include a bit more dialogue and more importantly, your novels are more than a tad too short and thus feels like half a book I confess. Thats my opinion though, though I suspect I am not alone in that one.

 

I would say Aaron writes some of the best dialogue of any Black Library author. I remember reading some other Black Library publications (it may have been an Ultramarines novel), and thinking there's been no dialogue for 5-10 pages, just lots of boring description!

 

That said, I don't think you can have too much dialogue, or too long a book if it's by A D-B :)

 

I've seen Aaron criticized for not enough combat/action in his novels, but that's just moronic.

 

-Tranc

 

 

I agree 99% (i.e. I wouldn`t mind more dialouge really and I also happen to think Dan Abnett maybe is better at that to be strictly, strictly honest).

[DarkMark]

I like to watch horror movies; they vary between awful and terrific. Most films can be categorised as average, and really I don't care. I'll enjoy when a stand out comes along, and laugh at the bad.

 

Black library is prolific and won't put out hit after hit, it is no Tamla Motown after all! Readers have different tastes and so authors will appeal to a varying audience. If you enjoy a writer then great, but don't throw scorn on another simply because they tried. Pick up another book instead, a good read is never that far away. :)