New FW Horus Heresy book --> new fluff?

[Týr]

Another great teaser for the coming FW HH book "The Betrayal" was released today.

 

Do you think there will be new fluff that haven't been included in the HH books? Or will it just be a summary of the known fluff from the BL books?

I would really want to see descriptions of campaigns and battles that we have only seen mentioned, or completely new ones altogether. And it could be a great opportunity to explore the Age of Darkness, as everything in these 7 action-packed years cannot be completely covered by BL.

[Arachnid99]

I think it'll be a mix of both but one area where I have great hopes is the structure and organisation of the Legions. For obvious reasons the novels have glossed over the organisational structure in order to leave creative space and also to avoid boring readers. But I really hope we're going to get a detailed idea from these FW books.

[Red Scorpions]

All I know is that it will be awesome to hopefully get Primarch(oh my god!) models and some real Heresy army lists. And more models! My wallet will be empty and full of cobwebs when its all over.

[jeremy1391]

From the teaser video it looks like the legions that are going to get covered are the ones at Istvaan III, hopefully it also includes the dropsite massacre, that would cover almost half of the legions

 

Sons of horus, emperors children, deathguard, world eaters if its just Istvaan III

If dropsite massacre is included we also get Iron warriors, word bearers, night lords, salamanders, raven guard, iron hands...... Thats half the legions in one book!!!!!! I hope this is the case, but will most likely be just istvaan III then book 2 would be the dropsite massacre and have some sweet mission and army list for a legion drop force.

[Lord_Caerolion]

I can't see them putting the Dropsite Massacre in the first book, unless they're either making it an absolutely massive book, or not going into that much detail on each Legion. After all, they've only got so much room, and to do in-depth rules/background on 3 Loyal Legions, as well as 8 Traitors, in addition to the backstory and general rules sections, is a little too much.

[jeremy1391]

Lord_Caerolion you make a very valid point. probably going to be just istvaan III B)

[Arachnid99]

Surely you'd be happy that they're not going to rush through the Legions but devote the time and space they deserve by spreading them over 8 or 9 books (i.e. possibly as few as 2 Legions per book). Though I suspect some Legions will be covered twice, for example the Death Guard at Istvaan is very different from the post Nurglification force that landed on Terra.

[Olis]

8 or 9 books? That's quite a long term project (in marketing terms, I'd think). I'm under the impression it'd be something more along the lines of a trilogy, like the Vraks books. I have no proof, mind you, just an educated guess, I suppose - with the materials involved and the depth of story that has to be dealt with, a trilogy makes sense. It's not too long term so as FW is set in course for the next decade and yet it's enough room for detail and exposition on the forces involved without anyone feeling left out. Imho.

[Rik Lightstar]

Well Black Library are only 6 years into their Heresy series and probably haven't hit the half-way mark yet really.

 

ALSO, GW have been trotting out 40k for 25 years, I'm sure Forgeworld could get 10+ years out of "30k"

 

Rik

[Týr]

I hope that 30k become a setting like 40k, and not just a trilogy of imperial armour books like the Vraks trilogy.

 

If their goal is to establish a new setting, it can easily run for 10+ years, and they can dig into a lot of good stuff.

[Raven Angel]

If you think about it this is the gateway to more then just 30K. The event of the M36 lay across the history of the Imperium like a veil with all that came befor being shrouded in mystery and remembered as only myth and legend. After the HH FW could do the 2nd founding, the early Black Crusades, The Nova Terra schism, The Astropath Wars, Even the Reign of Blood. To do the HH right though will take a lot of time. If you want it warped up in 2 or 3 Books then you really shouldn't expect alot of answers to all those questions we have.

[Brother Captain Kezef]

I've found the books that go beyond or outside the heresy to be my favourite. A good example are the Dark Angels novels, i loved how they expanded the legion and developed the Lion's character.

[Arachnid99]

8 or 9 books? That's quite a long term project (in marketing terms, I'd think). I'm under the impression it'd be something more along the lines of a trilogy, like the Vraks books. I have no proof, mind you, just an educated guess, I suppose - with the materials involved and the depth of story that has to be dealt with, a trilogy makes sense. It's not too long term so as FW is set in course for the next decade and yet it's enough room for detail and exposition on the forces involved without anyone feeling left out. Imho.

 

 

According to the rumours it's going to be over "more than 6" with 8 or 9 being the total number being tossed around. But as these books almost certainly aren't written yet and based on GW's record it could easily be compressed or extended depending on sales.

[Haranin]

I bet the first book will be about the loyalists in the traitor legions.

[Lord_Caerolion]

I can imagine it now...

 

"Captain Loken, special rule: Plot Armour of Fandom. If Loken survives the battle, you win. If he dies, your opponent gets 5 less Victory Points for killing him, due to Loken actually not being dead, and running rampant behind enemy lines. This rule applies regardless of how Loken was beated, so even in cases of him being removed from play (i.e. Shattershard, Strength D weaponry, etc), he still manages to survive.

 

Secondly, once Loken takes a wound, the engrams locking away his psychic potential wear away, and he gains the rules Psychic Mastery Level 10, as well as every Loyalist psychic power".

[AGPO]

I doubt very much that it'll only be Istvaan III in the first book. Even if you just cover the heresy, then you've got Istvaan III, Istvaan IV, Calth, Signus Prime, Caliban, Prospero and any number of others, not to mention the Seige of Terra, which is going to be huge, and require at least two books considering Badab got two and Vraks three. Even then, you're not even covering other forces like Custodes, Imperial Army or Sisters of Silence, not to mention anything pre-heresy or other races such as the Interex, Laer and many other human and xenos civilisations. Personally, I'd rather see them leave the story telling to the Black Library and focus on organisation, campaign details and rules. That said, I think it'll be a huge waste if this is just a series of Marine campaign books. I doubt we'll see it but I'd be far more interested in a Great Crusade series than a Heresy series.

[nagashnee]

I think people are getting their hopes up. So far FW only plans to do 3 books, the first one is confirmed to be only Istvaan III. I don't know why people assume that every legion will be covered. After all the Dark Angels had very little to do in the heresy for example, while their own civil war was post heresy, again prospero is not needed to tell the heresy story from a FW point of view. They are so far focusing on the large/key battles, and with only 3 book planned so far and one being already done it leaves very little room for non key conflicts/legions.

[Raven Angel]

Lets be fair you can't honestly say you covered the HH and leave out Prospero and Caliban. They'd catch so much nerd rage from the fans that they'd think a warp storm is coming.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

In order to make sure they hit every Legion AND ensure that they all get good coverage, you'd have to cover at least:

 

Istvaan III

Istvaan V (focus on Hands, Ravens, and Sallies)

Calth

Chondax (for the Alpha Legion)

Prospero

Caliban

Terra

 

Signus is a maybe -- the Blood Angels could get their coverage on Terra, and the Terra book's loyalist section could focus on the Fists and the Angels while the Scars get covered in the Chondax section. But aside from that, these seven battles cover all 18 of the Legions in some way or another.

[jeremy1391]

When you look at the Baab war books you see that "the big battles" have a few pages of fluff and a scenario that takes about as much space as a normal mission from the 40k rule book, then each book has an alternate army list. Each character puts its own spin on chapter tactics. Each book has over half a dozen characters..... So I would think it would be possible to more than just "the major battles" of the horus heresy in the books, there could be your generic legion vs legion boarding actions and the like. so since it has been all but confirmed that the first book is only Istvaan III I would expect to see rules for the deathguard, world eaters and sons of horus, plus a smattering of characters and apoc data sheets for the primarchs,using them in a normal size game would be ridiculous I would hope they cost at least 400 points a piece and add either some strategic assets or army wide special rules.

[Raven Angel]

In order to make sure they hit every Legion AND ensure that they all get good coverage, you'd have to cover at least:

 

Istvaan III

Istvaan V (focus on Hands, Ravens, and Sallies)

Calth

Chondax (for the Alpha Legion)

Prospero

Caliban

Terra

 

Signus is a maybe -- the Blood Angels could get their coverage on Terra, and the Terra book's loyalist section could focus on the Fists and the Angels while the Scars get covered in the Chondax section. But aside from that, these seven battles cover all 18 of the Legions in some way or another.

 

I'd say Signus Prime is a must because That's where the dual with the bloodthirster starts that Sanguinius kills on Terra. It is also the place where the Rage of the Blood Angels surfaces for the first time.

 

When you look at the Baab war books you see that "the big battles" have a few pages of fluff and a scenario that takes about as much space as a normal mission from the 40k rule book, then each book has an alternate army list. Each character puts its own spin on chapter tactics. Each book has over half a dozen characters..... So I would think it would be possible to more than just "the major battles" of the horus heresy in the books, there could be your generic legion vs legion boarding actions and the like. so since it has been all but confirmed that the first book is only Istvaan III I would expect to see rules for the deathguard, world eaters and sons of horus, plus a smattering of characters and apoc data sheets for the primarchs,using them in a normal size game would be ridiculous I would hope they cost at least 400 points a piece and add either some strategic assets or army wide special rules.

 

Man you have to remember the battles of the HH make the battles of the Badab War look like a cub scouts convention. There's no way you could do them justice in a few pages or paragraphs. you are talking about tens of thousands of SM and hundreds of thousands of Imperial Army, Titans and other Mechanicum forces. in each battle; some of which might span whole continents in there scope and scale.

[jeremy1391]

Man you have to remember the battles of the HH make the battles of the Badab War look like a cub scouts convention. There's no way you could do them justice in a few pages or paragraphs. you are talking about tens of thousands of SM and hundreds of thousands of Imperial Army, Titans and other Mechanicum forces. in each battle; some of which might span whole continents in there scope and scale.

 

The badab War was the biggest marine on marine war since the HH, which had battles spanning continents and the siege of badab was an entire planet. So the 10 years or so of Badab was spread over 2 books, so it would seem reasonable that you could fit the events in the Istvaan system into 2 books, then you could do 2 books for the age of darkness covering Calth, Prospero, The war between the night lords and dark angels, and signus prime.Then 2 books for the siege of terra and mars including the space port battle, siege of the palace, the fight on the vengeful spirit, then lastly like 2 books for the scouring..... seems doable.

[MordentHex]

In order to make sure they hit every Legion AND ensure that they all get good coverage, you'd have to cover at least:

 

Istvaan III

Istvaan V (focus on Hands, Ravens, and Sallies)

Calth

Chondax (for the Alpha Legion)

Prospero

Caliban

Terra

 

Signus is a maybe -- the Blood Angels could get their coverage on Terra, and the Terra book's loyalist section could focus on the Fists and the Angels while the Scars get covered in the Chondax section. But aside from that, these seven battles cover all 18 of the Legions in some way or another.

 

I'd say Signus Prime is a must because That's where the dual with the bloodthirster starts that Sanguinius kills on Terra. It is also the place where the Rage of the Blood Angels surfaces for the first time.

 

When you look at the Baab war books you see that "the big battles" have a few pages of fluff and a scenario that takes about as much space as a normal mission from the 40k rule book, then each book has an alternate army list. Each character puts its own spin on chapter tactics. Each book has over half a dozen characters..... So I would think it would be possible to more than just "the major battles" of the horus heresy in the books, there could be your generic legion vs legion boarding actions and the like. so since it has been all but confirmed that the first book is only Istvaan III I would expect to see rules for the deathguard, world eaters and sons of horus, plus a smattering of characters and apoc data sheets for the primarchs,using them in a normal size game would be ridiculous I would hope they cost at least 400 points a piece and add either some strategic assets or army wide special rules.

 

Man you have to remember the battles of the HH make the battles of the Badab War look like a cub scouts convention. There's no way you could do them justice in a few pages or paragraphs. you are talking about tens of thousands of SM and hundreds of thousands of Imperial Army, Titans and other Mechanicum forces. in each battle; some of which might span whole continents in there scope and scale.

 

Luck for me i only need the first book. If they make me divide my Loyalist army between the legions i am going to totally be an -_-:)

[Red Scorpions]

Wow. I mean seriously. This whole thing sounds like we are hoping for sooooo much(because FW is that good). But you guys have the Age of the Emperor rules right? No fluff in that, but the pdf was able to get every warring legion in the writing. I would be happy for that too, but hoping for what you guys are saying.

[Olis]

8 or 9 books? That's quite a long term project (in marketing terms, I'd think). I'm under the impression it'd be something more along the lines of a trilogy, like the Vraks books. I have no proof, mind you, just an educated guess, I suppose - with the materials involved and the depth of story that has to be dealt with, a trilogy makes sense. It's not too long term so as FW is set in course for the next decade and yet it's enough room for detail and exposition on the forces involved without anyone feeling left out. Imho.

 

 

According to the rumours it's going to be over "more than 6" with 8 or 9 being the total number being tossed around. But as these books almost certainly aren't written yet and based on GW's record it could easily be compressed or extended depending on sales.

 

Right, then, saying it now to get it out of the way - I may have been wrong. :devil: