Very short extract from Prince of Crowes

[A D-B]

Nooooo.... you didn't.... did you?

 

Christ, no.

 

I'm just not surprised it's LLW coming out with a wacky theory like that. I'm pretty sure he still says Loken is a psyker, which is adorable faith in the face of all evidence.

[Hyaenidae]

Wait. I thought Loken was a giraffe....

 

:D

[Lord Lorne Walkier]

Nooooo.... you didn't.... did you?

 

Christ, no.

 

I'm just not surprised it's LLW coming out with a wacky theory like that. I'm pretty sure he still says Loken is a psyker, which is adorable faith in the face of all evidence.

As much as i would love to talk about Loken and his repressed abilities, to do so here would wrong. I would love to ask you a question here < http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...50&start=50 > , on the topic. There was a time not so long ago that the idea that Loken lived past the end of GiF was widely considered a "wacky theory".

 

As for the idea that a Alpha Legion might be posing as a Raven Guard during the Hersey, well i can not take credit for this. I could be wrong but i think the book Deliverance Lost, should get the credit. Why else would a Night Lord and Raven Guard be exchanging pleasantries? The Night Haunter and Corax tried to kill each other on Isstvan V, in the First Heretic. I have yet to see any reason why a RG would go renegade during the Heresy. We have yet to hear of any from the Loyalist Legions to turn from the Emperor, other then the Dark Angles.

 

Having my ideas called lame and wacky, only makes it sweeter when it turns out i am right. Not that i am right all the time... there was a time when i was sure that the book Nemesis, would be about the founding of the Grey Knights.... /shrug

[A D-B]

Nooooo.... you didn't.... did you?

 

Christ, no.

 

I'm just not surprised it's LLW coming out with a wacky theory like that. I'm pretty sure he still says Loken is a psyker, which is adorable faith in the face of all evidence.

As much as i would love to talk about Loken and his repressed abilities, to do so here would wrong.

 

Wrong because it's off-topic, or wrong because it's been published that he's not, and I told you that several times in the last two years, anyway?

[Sublime Heresy]

Nooooo.... you didn't.... did you?

 

Christ, no.

 

I'm just not surprised it's LLW coming out with a wacky theory like that. I'm pretty sure he still says Loken is a psyker, which is adorable faith in the face of all evidence.

As much as i would love to talk about Loken and his repressed abilities, to do so here would wrong.

 

Wrong because it's off-topic, or wrong because it's been published that he's not, and I told you that several times in the last two years, anyway?

 

 

Meh, what do you know? Not like you write for BL or anything.

 

Ah...

[Captain Juan Juarez]

Wait. I thought Loken was a giraffe....

 

:)

 

Would have the made the last few years more bearable.

[Lord Lorne Walkier]

Unless Loken is in Prince of Crowes, i would say the former. I am fine with talking about Loken here.... I have gotten the feeling in the past that the mods don't like off topic banter about Loken.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

What's a meteor hammer? Sounds like some kind of mining equipment.

 

http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/047/d/0/Meteor_Hammer_2_by_sepfeif.jpg

 

http://www.rangercentral.com/database/2007_gekiranger/images/geki-ar-gekihammer.jpg

[Perrin]

What's a meteor hammer? Sounds like some kind of mining equipment.

 

http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/047/d/0/Meteor_Hammer_2_by_sepfeif.jpg

 

http://www.rangercentral.com/database/2007_gekiranger/images/geki-ar-gekihammer.jpg

 

Haha thanks, not sure why i didnt try google first :lol:

[Captain Juan Juarez]

...not sure why i didnt try google first :wub:

 

Because much like there always being someone in the Imperium who knows, there's always someone on B&C who knows!

[Lord Ragnarok]

Perhaps its due to it being a short extract and out of normal context?

 

I was thinking the same, but still. My mind is aflame with ideas suddenly....

 

I thought there was some discussion about showing more SM's from Loyal Legions siding with and joining the efforts of Horus just like there are some that are with Legions supporting Horus still loyal to the Emperor. Not sure if this was just a "what if" discussion or if someone stated we'd see more of that.

 

 

And please stay on topic.

[Grey Angel]

 

I thought there was some discussion about showing more SM's from Loyal Legions siding with and joining the efforts of Horus just like there are some that are with Legions supporting Horus still loyal to the Emperor. Not sure if this was just a "what if" discussion or if someone stated we'd see more of that.

 

 

And please stay on topic.

If I remember right there was some talk about that at Black Library Live,that a part of the Iron Hands Legion joined forces with Horus.

[Brother Dimetrius]

I thoroughly enjoyed Prince of Crows, but the inclusion of the RG character seemed a bit... tacked on. Is it a reference to something published in the past that I missed, or maybe to something that was supposed to come out but was delayed/scrapped?

 

If not, I'm going to work under the assumption that it's an Alpha Legion operative. Silly I know.

 

Or is it...

[Brother Captain Andrew]

I must say, that this is IMHO be the best short story/novella the black library has published. I have never even contemplated starting a chaos army but after Prince of Crows I am digging through my bitz box to find the stuff to try and convert a Night Lords army led by Sevatar.

 

Also, To ADB: If we get a petition going for you to write the Imperial Fists (and Sigismund in particular) do we have a chance to sway black library? :)

[Wade Garrett]

To ADB:

 

Do you regard the fact that everybody wants you to tackle their favorite Legion or Chapter as a honor (like King Aragon) or do you see it more as a burden you sort of wish you could lay aside (like King Robert Baratheon)?

 

Also, what are the chances of you writing a book about Mortarion and the Death Guard? :)

[Arachnid99]

Also, To ADB: If we get a petition going for you to write the Imperial Fists (and Sigismund in particular) do we have a chance to sway black library? :(

 

Sign me up to that petition. I'n not a fan of The Crimson Fist and Helsreach was great.

[A D-B]

To ADB:

 

Do you regard the fact that everybody wants you to tackle their favorite Legion or Chapter as a honor (like King Aragon) or do you see it more as a burden you sort of wish you could lay aside (like King Robert Baratheon)?

 

In licensed fiction, it's about the highest compliment you can get.

 

Though, I do wonder at it. While I like to think I do a decent job of bringing my own take on the established lore, and flesh out a lot of the details in ways that's true to what came before, it's also fair to say that if I get hold of your Chapter/Legion, they're never going to come across as bombastically victorious as if another writer dealt with them, and there's a 90% chance in the story that they'll just lose. The Black Templars lose in Helsreach, though admittedly I didn't invent the storyline for that one. But the Cadians are

almost massacred to a man

in Cadian Blood. The Night Lords run from almost every single fair fight in the Night Lords Trilogy, the main character hates his Legion, and at the end

they're all killed

. Lorgar loses to Corax in The First Heretic, and the Legion is shown at its lowest, demoralised ebb.

 

If you look at Prospero Burns, Dan made the Space Wolves into the Emperor's executioner Legion - the guys made to kill other Marines. In The First Heretic, the Word Bearers are a Legion who don't even know their place in the galaxy. If you look at the Ultramarines Series, it's about a Chapter triumphing against the odds, on the grandest scale. If you look at the Night Lords Trilogy, it's about a handful of Chaos Marines that hate each other, whose ambition is just survive another few days. If you look at pretty much any short story or novella in the Heresy, it's about that faction winning against whoever they're fighting. But Savage Weapons - a Dark Angel story - is about the Dark Angels in a deadlock with the Night Lords, coming out of it slightly worse. Prince of Crows - a Night Lord story - is about the Night Lords Legion being annihilated by the Dark Angels, and the psychology in the aftermath of that defeat.

 

So, yeah, I always wonder if I'm a poisoned chalice. It's amazing to be told "I wish you'd do my favourite Legion", but it always makes me think "Why? Don't you want them to win? Ask Dan or Jim, instead."

 

Also, what are the chances of you writing a book about Mortarion and the Death Guard? ;)

 

Absolutely zero. As far as I know, they're firmly in another author's hands. I did a little with Typhus and the Terminus Est in Cadian Blood, but that doesn't really count.

 

Also, To ADB: If we get a petition going for you to write the Imperial Fists (and Sigismund in particular) do we have a chance to sway black library? :)

 

Sign me up to that petition. I'n not a fan of The Crimson Fist and Helsreach was great.

 

I was definitely a fan of The Crimson Fist, and John French is one of my closest friends. So we talked over this a lot, as he knows I love the Fists (Crimson and Imperial) and that Sigismund is one of my fave characters in the entire license. He asked if I liked TCF (when I was driving him back to the airport, after a 10-man Necromunda weekend) and I told him, honestly, that I loved it.

 

But I'd have taken Sigismund in a vastly different direction. I'd have wanted to play Sigismund as the one guy who really was as good and noble and heroic as his legend said, given that so many other characters are darkened up in the series. I know, I know, grit adds depth and it's cool. But Sigismund was a character I'd wanted to be X, and John made him Y.

 

That said, I think his interpretation is going to be more popular, and it's brilliantly written. It's like the case of the Alpha Legion. I get asked a lot what my fave Heresy novel is, and it's Legion hands-down. When people then ask how I'd have done the Alpha Legion compared to Dan's version, I just sort of shrug and say "Worse."

[Brother Captain Kezef]

Am I the only one who was glad ADB didn't do the BA?

 

I love ADB's work and his take on the Word Bearers, but he's right, ADB tends to write tragic heroes rather than noble. I think this is what makes the heresy series work as there are so many authors with different styles so that each book and legion has it's own identity and style.

 

I'd hate for the series to be done by just one author.

[Brother Captain Andrew]

Also, To ADB: If we get a petition going for you to write the Imperial Fists (and Sigismund in particular) do we have a chance to sway black library? :)

 

Sign me up to that petition. I'n not a fan of The Crimson Fist and Helsreach was great.

 

I was definitely a fan of The Crimson Fist, and John French is one of my closest friends. So we talked over this a lot, as he knows I love the Fists (Crimson and Imperial) and that Sigismund is one of my fave characters in the entire license. He asked if I liked TCF (when I was driving him back to the airport, after a 10-man Necromunda weekend) and I told him, honestly, that I loved it.

 

But I'd have taken Sigismund in a vastly different direction. I'd have wanted to play Sigismund as the one guy who really was as good and noble and heroic as his legend said, given that so many other characters are darkened up in the series. I know, I know, grit adds depth and it's cool. But Sigismund was a character I'd wanted to be X, and John made him Y.

 

That said, I think his interpretation is going to be more popular, and it's brilliantly written. It's like the case of the Alpha Legion. I get asked a lot what my fave Heresy novel was, and it's Legion hands-down. When people then ask how I'd have done the Alpha Legion compared to Dan's version, I just sort of shrug and say "Worse."

 

Damn, now I really, really wish you were handling the Fists ;) .

 

I loved Crimson Fist except for the direction that Sigismund was taken. I just didn't feel there was enough of a connection between

Keeler and Sigismund to make his decision believable, it could have been a great way to take the character, self sacrifice for the good of his father and legion, but the incredibly brief interaction between the two feels a little thin for the most loyal Fist in the legion to lie to Dorn.

 

[A D-B]

I love ADB's work and his take on the Word Bearers, but he's right, ADB tends to write tragic heroes rather than noble.

 

Bear in mind, though, it's just what I've ended up writing so far. If I was writing for the Blood Angels or the Ultramarines, it'd be an entirely different tone. I don't prefer "tragic" heroes to "noble" ones. It's just the way the cards have fallen so far.

[Pavement Artist]

I was in Bugmans Bar sometime last year and i think i over heard a snippet of a conversation between John French and one of the editors. They mentioned the Sigismund/Keeler thing, though at the time i misheard it as "Sigismunds a psyker".

 

I'm glad im wrong and also that my mate can stop taking the piss as it were.

[Arachnid99]

But I'd have taken Sigismund in a vastly different direction. I'd have wanted to play Sigismund as the one guy who really was as good and noble and heroic as his legend said, given that so many other characters are darkened up in the series. I know, I know, grit adds depth and it's cool. But Sigismund was a character I'd wanted to be X, and John made him Y.

 

Damn, now I really, really wish you were handling the Fists :lol: .

 

I loved Crimson Fist except for the direction that Sigismund was taken. I just didn't feel there was enough of a connection between

Keeler and Sigismund to make his decision believable, it could have been a great way to take the character, self sacrifice for the good of his father and legion, but the incredibly brief interaction between the two feels a little thin for the most loyal Fist in the legion to lie to Dorn.

 

Exactly, I think you can really get some dramatic tension and story making out of having Sigismund be exactly what it says on the tin. As the most uncompromising, zealous, honour several miles before reason, Astartes out there. The Emperors Champion. That doesn't mean he's has to triumph all the time, it's incredibly easy to have him walk head first into catastrophic disaster. But he is the First Templar, he should be the epitome of everything our Chapter stands for. He should be the guy who always attacks, who leaves the bunkers full of civilians behind to smite the enemy and stain his sword with their blood.

 

Oh well fingers crossed A D-B will get a chance to give Sigismund a bit of "nuance" and show that despite this lapse he really is a Chivalric Knight.

[Brother Captain Kezef]

I love ADB's work and his take on the Word Bearers, but he's right, ADB tends to write tragic heroes rather than noble.

 

Bear in mind, though, it's just what I've ended up writing so far. If I was writing for the Blood Angels or the Ultramarines, it'd be an entirely different tone. I don't prefer "tragic" heroes to "noble" ones. It's just the way the cards have fallen so far.

 

Hmm

 

That makes me really interested in reading a novel you write from a noble angle. I'd be genuinely interested in comparing how you write that style with the tragic and flawed heroes from your night lord series and Emperor's Gift.

[Theis]

I love ADB's work and his take on the Word Bearers, but he's right, ADB tends to write tragic heroes rather than noble.

 

Bear in mind, though, it's just what I've ended up writing so far. If I was writing for the Blood Angels or the Ultramarines, it'd be an entirely different tone. I don't prefer "tragic" heroes to "noble" ones. It's just the way the cards have fallen so far.

 

 

It's worked for you so far though hasn't it?

 

To respond to your earlier post, I think everything you describe there is why everyone wants you to write their favorite legion. It's in adversity that we see character and the development of character. In triumph what will we see, how someone is at the top of their game, how they behave when everything's worked out well for them?

 

Not to go overboard with the compliments, but you write characters that behave in a manner that many see as representative of the nature of their legion, or chapter, or unit, and which represents the personalities in question.

 

Generally speaking, things don't go well for the chaos legions. They wouldn't have turned to chaos if things were all sunshine and happiness for them in the first place. Once they've taken that first step toward chaos, things don't really get better, they can't, but they are now in a position to seek retribution against those they see as responsible for the first.

 

Given that, I don't think those of us who are their fans can expect happy or triumphant stories. I know I look for good, compelling, entertaining, stories about the personalities and events that gave rise to the decision to side with chaos. I think that from there that the best we can hope for the legions that took the step is some sort of vindication, perhaps some satisfaction for the personalities, but we know there can't be a happy ending. We know that any "triumph" will be temporary.

 

So, you show the dynamics, the stresses, of the inevitable situations well. You've managed to make us rather fond of some true villains.

[Wade Garrett]

So, yeah, I always wonder if I'm a poisoned chalice. It's amazing to be told "I wish you'd do my favourite Legion", but it always makes me think "Why? Don't you want them to win? Ask Dan or Jim, instead."

 

If I can use mixed martial arts as a metaphor, I personally would rather see a great fight-both guys laying it all the line, moves and counter moves, who has the upper hand changing from instant to instant-than to see my favorite fighter triumph in a snooze fest that has most of the audience at home and in the stadium wandering off to use the restroom, grab a hot dog, etc. Or a 5 second blow out where the other guy never had a chance, for that matter. "The play's the thing", and all that.

 

One of the reasons The First Heretic is my favorite Horus Heresy novel is because I can feel where Lorgar is coming from when he's down. Not in the sense that I've had my brother burn down a whole planet while my Dad told me I was a complete disappointment to him, but having people close to you turn on you? Feeling like you've let those you care about down? Going into a confrontation knowing that you're outmatched but you swing at the guy you're pretty sure is going to knock the unmentionable out of you? Been there. Done that. Relating to Guilliman or Sanguinus in their books is...a bit trickier.

 

Plus TFH gave me some great quotes from Erebus and Kor Phereon to throw around whenever I debate religion and philosophy with friends, which would probably bother me if I had any talent for self analysis whatsoever, but I just look at it as "Even a daemon worshipping treacherous snake who smears the fat of unbaptized babies on his tanks to make them shoot better can say something that makes sense every now and then."