Tyranids

[nineteen73]

For the first time since playing this game I'm at my wits end. The last four games I've played have been against three Tyranid players. In that four week rotation I've witnessed there unbelievable awesonessness and destruction. Between the three players there is one shared strategy, advance as a massive horde, with Termigants and Ymgarls at the front wittling away models with massive attacks; while providing cover and bodies, preventing deepstrike and effective shooting power to take down the likes of Tervigons, Swarmlords, and Hive Guards.

 

Personally, after four games I'm not sure a pure Grey Knights armarmyarmyy can beat them. Between Biomancy psychic powers and Tervigons flooding the field with so many Tervigants, its become overwhelming. I've lost hope and wit as to how to effectively shutdown an army that needs no stategy to play. All they need to do is advance!

[Brother Nihm]

I am not entirely sure that we are playing the same game. Beating 'Nids have never been easier. :)

 

(Purifiers.

Purifiers.

Purifiers.)

 

 

Could you post up your army list and his/theirs as well as a few notes on what you think is costing you the games, in the various missions?

If you could also include information on the terrain setup that would be helpful.

[Toasterfree]

tervigons have a really good chance of not being able to spawn any more guants (2d6 roll on 3d6). incenerators and psycannons do a number on them. psyfile dreads can punch down the MCs behind the line. MCs dont get cover from the horde in front of them.

 

spam razors with heavy bolters and suddenly that horde in front of you will drop like flies. mass fire power on one unit and it goes down stupid fast. nothing gets saves against your guns.

 

purifiers and purgations

[adamv6]

purifiers and purgations

 

The flame is your friend :)

 

I take 3 incinerators in a 10man Purifier unit, and 4 psycannons in a 6man Purgation unit. They do absolutely crazy amounts of damage between them.

[worloch]

Personally, I don't like to tailor lists, so unless they are tailoring to you, I wouldn't want to give specific advice for tailoring against them.

 

So more details would be good - points you are playing at, and what your army normally looks like, for instance. Details on their lists would be helpful as well.

 

 

Some general notes -

 

GK's have excellent anti-infantry at 24", so you should be able to pour enough firepower in to them before they get to you to seriously dampen their spirits. Your job, therefore, is to try to maximize the time your forces spend at that range. Deploy and move as necessary to keep them there as long as possible.

 

We have very expensive models, generally, and they have cheap models, generally. You can't afford to enter in to a war of attrition of any type with them. Avoid CC with their hordes, but if you get an opportunity to charge an MC, and you think you can kill it with your force weapons before it ever gets to go, it might be worth it. It will take you about 12 attacks on average to score a single wound, if you're hitting on 4's and wounding on 6's. You'll want more attacks though, where possible, to better your chances.

 

If you have purifiers in your list already, consider combat squad'ing them, and double charging big horde units. 2x Cleansing Flames, plus the 3 attacks per model on the charge, should put a hurt on them.

 

Don't forget to take advantage of overwatch - it can be easy to forget since 6th just came out.

[Falstaff]

I regularly smash Nids to Pieces with:

 

2x M. Inquisitor (Terminator Armour, Psyker Lv1, Force Sword, Psycannon)

 

Each leading:

 

2x Full Terminator Squads (Weapons- 1xBanner, 2xHammer, 7xHalberds, 2xPsycannon)

 

This is the core and front line of the army. This goes down the middle in terrible anger. Don't even bother rolling on the Divination table, just take prescience. With this in the middle of the table you are rerolling ALL hits over 3 Psycannons allowing you to punnish MC's and massed horders alike. Get into combat with a Hive Tyrant? Who cares, because of Psych-out grenades it becomes I1, any hits and the banner kills it in one, if it has Eternal Warrior courtesy of Biomancy its still going to die under the sheer weight of attacks.

 

Genestealers after you? Shoot them, they are weak to gunfire. Should you get assaulted they struggle against Overwatch. Two days ago just one Terminator Squad lead by an M. Inquisitor single handedly destroyed in CC a Winged Hive Tyrant, a Tervigon and a pack of Ymgarls. As the Tervigon died it took with it some 20 Gaunts to boot.

 

Back up this squad with:

 

1x Full Interceptor Squad (Weapons- 1xHammer, 9xSwords, 2xPsycannon, Psybolt ammo.)

1x Full Interceptor Squad (Weapons- 1xHammer, 9xSwords, 2xIncinerator, Psybolt ammo.)

 

These should be used deceptively. Deploy along with the terminators in the middle of the table giving the illusion that you are concentrating your force. On the first turn shunt them 30" laterally to gain advantage of a Stacked Flank. This will psyche your opponent as they will not have anticipated that, use both interceptor squads to pummel in gun fire only any, all and sundry. As above Incinerators give withering abuse to hoards and if you get assaulted (which you should not allow) Overwatch is tasty. Use the Interceptors to pester, annoy, lure and frustrate your opponent, your boys in Terminator Armour will be cleaning up in the middle of the table while the periphery of the enemy army will be unsure of exactly what to do. In desperation you can commit the Interceptors to battle but ONLY if you get the charge, remember to use hammerhand and remember you get Hammer of Wrath for bonus woundage.

 

Round this list off with 8 or 9 Grey Knights to stand at the back and support/hold an objective and you will be laughing in at 2000pts.

 

You will not very few units. You will be outnumbered at least 5 to 1 if your Tyranid opponent actually understands their codex. You will face tough choices. But. You have the finest codex in the whole Imperium, win or loose it is down to you, and you only, and last of all NEEEEVVVVEERRRR TAAAKKE SSPAAAAACEE MOOONNKEYS to a man's game.

[spartan249]

We are playing vastly different games, apparently. My easiest opponent by far is nids, given deep strike defense via warp quake, very effective firepower at mid-range, and the ability to actually engage in CC with a chance of coming out ahead. Nids have not fared well against my ghost knights. 6th edition has only made it worse now that casualties slow them down, and reserves can no longer assault when they enter (ymgarls excepted).

 

There's probably a reason why you're having trouble, and I highly doubt it involves them.

[Falstaff]

I regularly smash Nids to Pieces with:

 

2x M. Inquisitor (Terminator Armour, Psyker Lv1, Force Sword, Psycannon)

 

Each leading:

 

2x Full Terminator Squads (Weapons- 1xBanner, 2xHammer, 7xHalberds, 2xPsycannon)

 

This is the core and front line of the army. This goes down the middle in terrible anger. Don't even bother rolling on the Divination table, just take prescience. With this in the middle of the table you are rerolling ALL hits over 3 Psycannons allowing you to punnish MC's and massed horders alike. Get into combat with a Hive Tyrant? Who cares, because of Psych-out grenades it becomes I1, any hits and the banner kills it in one, if it has Eternal Warrior courtesy of Biomancy its still going to die under the sheer weight of attacks.

 

Genestealers after you? Shoot them, they are weak to gunfire. Should you get assaulted they struggle against Overwatch. Two days ago just one Terminator Squad lead by an M. Inquisitor single handedly destroyed in CC a Winged Hive Tyrant, a Tervigon and a pack of Ymgarls. As the Tervigon died it took with it some 20 Gaunts to boot.

 

Back up this squad with:

 

1x Full Interceptor Squad (Weapons- 1xHammer, 9xSwords, 2xPsycannon, Psybolt ammo.)

1x Full Interceptor Squad (Weapons- 1xHammer, 9xSwords, 2xIncinerator, Psybolt ammo.)

 

These should be used deceptively. Deploy along with the terminators in the middle of the table giving the illusion that you are concentrating your force. On the first turn shunt them 30" laterally to gain advantage of a Stacked Flank. This will psyche your opponent as they will not have anticipated that, use both interceptor squads to pummel in gun fire only any, all and sundry. As above Incinerators give withering abuse to hoards and if you get assaulted (which you should not allow) Overwatch is tasty. Use the Interceptors to pester, annoy, lure and frustrate your opponent, your boys in Terminator Armour will be cleaning up in the middle of the table while the periphery of the enemy army will be unsure of exactly what to do. In desperation you can commit the Interceptors to battle but ONLY if you get the charge, remember to use hammerhand and remember you get Hammer of Wrath for bonus woundage.

 

Round this list off with 8 or 9 Grey Knights to stand at the back and support/hold an objective and you will be laughing in at 2000pts.

 

You will not very few units. You will be outnumbered at least 5 to 1 if your Tyranid opponent actually understands their codex. You will face tough choices. But. You have the finest codex in the whole Imperium, win or loose it is down to you, and you only, and last of all NEEEEVVVVEERRRR TAAAKKE SSPAAAAACEE MOOONNKEYS to a man's game.

[number6]

'Nids are a terrible army right now. And one of their most difficult matchups is GKs. I play both armies, I should know! :cuss

 

There is simply no reason for GKs to lose to Tyranids. Flying Monstrous Creatures can put some hurt on you, but that's about the size of it. If those FMCs really want to earn their keep, they're gonna have to land some time. And then they're toast.

 

Every GK is carrying a stormbolter and a force weapon. 'Nuff said.

[Gentlemanloser]

When GK with allied Eldar can do a 5+ MC list better than 'nids, you know something is badly wrong with thier codex.

 

The lack of any ally options should have been the flashing green light to everyone that "THIS CODEX SUCKS!".

[nineteen73]

Thanks for the many responses. It's encouraging to hear how vastly easy it seems for you all to triumph against the Tyranids. Hence the reason I opened myself to advice and suggestions. (I've fairly new to the game and so I'm still on a learning curve).

 

From what I gather I haven't been running enough incinerators in my lists. I've mainly been using fully decked out IMO w/psycannon and prescience with terminators and strike squads (utilizing warp quake) both equipped with psycannons , and DKs loaded with incinerator, hvy psycannon, and PT. I've run twice a redeemer. And I manage to squeeze in psybolt ammo as much as possible.

 

It also doesn't help that I attempt to stay in cover and kite around. Should I advance in the middle more often. Also I find myself trying to take out the the Swarlord or Tervigons more often than concentrating on the tervigants and such.

 

I also roll 1s and 2s on average; so when rolling a PILE of dice, its not uncommon that i wound only once or twice. All the while failing the most easiest of armor save.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I played Nidz extensively in fifth edition - they do have some advantages versus GK such as SitW to name one... It's not that easy passing a Ld9 psychic test on 3d6. I think in general the best tactic is to focus fire and maintain a safe distance as long as possible. With the change to Fearless no longer generating wounds you don't want to get tarpitted early... Otherwise they can shut down a lot of your shooting and grind you down.

 

G ;)

[Gentlemanloser]

The only real Psychic Power the GKs would need versus 'Nids is Force Weapon activation. If SitW is proving to be too much of a bugbear there, there is always Brotherhood Banners.

 

Other than that SitW is really a non event, as we don't really need any of our powers, not even Hammerhand or Warp Quake, versus 'Nids.

 

Also, while Incinerators are awesome, I would also take the route of only using the Heavy Version on DreadKnights.

[adamv6]

Personally, I don't like to tailor lists, so unless they are tailoring to you, I wouldn't want to give specific advice for tailoring against them.

 

Worloch has a great point here. I hate people who tailor there lists and I get really pissy about it at our local GW. For example, I turn up with a 1750 point list that is almost written in stone, only for x person to who offers me a game to sit looking across the table at my force writing out his list.

 

In general, I like running my Purifiers with incinerators. They are one of my CC units, and I like them to be able to clean out hordes and get people out of cover. They also get up to 4 of them in a 10man squad for zero points :tu:

 

I take a purgation squad with Psycannons to sit and pummel things into oblivion. 16 ST7 shots is just too much for most squads, and on average I get 3 rending shots, so they can rip through normal terminators.

 

My current Power Armour 1750 list looks something like;

 

Coteaz

Two Ten man Strike squads with Psycannons and Psyammo

A Six man Acolytes unit with bolters and a Space Monkey

A Five man Psyker Unit with a Acolyte to hold their hands and wait in anticipation of their heads popping (I seem to roll double 1 with them far too much)

A Six man DCA unit with 2 Crusaders and 2 Acolytes

A Ten man Purifier squad with 3 incinerators, 5 halberds and 2 hammers

A Six man Purgation squad with psycannons

A PsiRifleman Dread

A Stormraven with Multimelta and Lascannons

 

It's a foot slogging list, with a flyer (for anti-flyer and vehicle busting). I have beaten Eldar, Dark Eldar, Chaos Space Marines(including a Nurgle-Daemon Epi list), Nids, Tau, Templars, Wolves and IG with it, so I think its fairly reliable. I have also lost to Eldar, Tau and Wolves with it, but thats par for the course. You win some, you lose some.

 

GL makes a great point about Brotherhood Banners, and when I run 10man TDA/Paladin squads, I am not without one. Getting that extra attack and having your force weapons on is brilliant.

 

The only 2 beasties I have a mild panic about facing in a nid force are... The Deathleaper and the Doom of Malan'tai. Horrible, both of them :yes:

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

The only real Psychic Power the GKs would need versus 'Nids is Force Weapon activation. If SitW is proving to be too much of a bugbear there, there is always Brotherhood Banners.

 

Other than that SitW is really a non event, as we don't really need any of our powers, not even Hammerhand or Warp Quake, versus 'Nids.

 

Also, while Incinerators are awesome, I would also take the route of only using the Heavy Version on DreadKnights.

 

People always bring up the banner versus Tyranids but seriously it is not even like half your units can take it unless you play Draigowing. Nidz have some hard counters to GK - it is just a matter of the application. Now that units like genestealers ignore DT Sanctuary is no big deal.

 

G :(

[Seahawk]

The Storm Raven has anti-psyker missiles that cause perils, from which the only save is a 5+ FNP (if he even has it). The better/best Tyranid units are psykers and hard to miss. 'Nuff said :(.

[nineteen73]

As I'm following the post and jotting down mental notes on how to effectively build a list that works well with the models I own I wanted to pass along a 1500-point list that could be used as a template o build off when I play 1501-2000 points.

 

Castellan Crowe

3X 10-Purifiers (3-incinerators, 1-psycannon, swords)

2X Dreadknights (hvy incinerator, hvy psycannon, PT)

Remaining = 50-points (could be used outfit Purifiers with hammers and halberds)

 

or

 

Castellan Crowe

3X 10-Purifiers (3-incinerators, 1-psycannon, swords)

1X Dreadknights (hvy incinerator, PT)

1X Redeemer (psybolt and psyflame ammo)

Remaining = 100-points (could be used outfit Purifiers with psybolt ammo, hammers and halberds)

[number6]

I fail to see how Tyranids have any "hard counters" to GKs. It's all the other way around.

 

Force Weapons deny Tyranids their greatest asset: high toughness + multiple wounds. SitW is not really much of a deterrent. On LD 10, you'll still pass 50% of the time. More than 40% of the time on LD 9. That's quite reliable.

 

Stormraven mindstrike missiles kill the most dangerous 'nids -- Tyrants (including Swarmlord), Tervigon, Broodlord, etc -- all but outright. (Bad scatter is the only way they'll survive.)

 

Stormbolters kill everything not a Warrior or MC. Pyscannons rend even MCs down. You don't need incinerators to deal with 'nids.

 

What can Tyranids do to GKs? Swarm them? Bog them down in assault?

 

How? How can 'nids even get close to GKs unless the GKs want them to get closer? Kiting, vehicle cock-blocking, strategic sacrifices of the occasional combat squad... Games are only so long, and GKs have more firepower -- that functions on the move just as well as static -- and superior assault capability to the 'nids.

 

To beat 'nids you just need to take an averagely competitive GK list and play smart. Don't go rushing into them, but always ensure you maximize your firepower. Be willing to sacrifice vehicles and combat squads to them to block them off and keep them away so you get extra turns of shooting. When you assault, do it on your terms, with overwhelming force.

[adamv6]

Nineteen73, you may want to read the thread about Dreadknights currently on the forum here...

 

Personally, I think running Purifiers with Pyscannons is a bit of a waste. Halberds are well worth it, and take advantage nicely of the 2 base attacks. I prefer to take swords on Strikes.

 

I love my LRR, but have never taken the psyflame ammo, as ST6 AP3 flamers are good enough (I have never found a situation where ST7 would have helped dramatically). That 15 points buys you 7 halberds on your Purifiers.

[Gentlemanloser]

People always bring up the banner versus Tyranids but seriously it is not even like half your units can take it unless you play Draigowing.

 

I don't take the banner anyway.

 

But if you want to make sure you can make 'nids cry, stick one on your Paladin/GKT sqauds. Paladin/GKT are really the units you should choose to CC with in 6th (You can use Purifiers, but they aren't as good in CC due to the lack of a 2+ save), and they can have the Banner.

 

Kinda subtle for GW to hammer home "These are your CC units!". :devil:

 

And the 1 to a handful of Paladin/GKT units you might take is more than enough to CC 'nids down with.

[Chairman_woo]

Guess I'll chime in as I'm a long standing nid player myself.

 

Firstly I'd like to reject the sentiment of some in this thread that Nids are in some way a sub-par codex/army right now. Hard to use? yes. Top Tier? No. Underpowered and crappy? ABSOLUTELY NO!

 

If you don't treat Tervigons/termagants, Trygons, Tyrants etc. with respect they will bite you in the arse hard! (Then chew, swallow, digest and poop out more gribblies to spoil your day). That said many of the points made in this thread about countering them are indeed very much valid, just that one cannot afford to think of them only in a vaccumb.

 

Given the OP has not given us any specifics on exactly the sort of units their enemy is using I can only assume that they were using some variation on what is arguably the nids most powerfull build at the moment i.e. lots of Tervigons and other Psykers supported by (and supporting) hoardes of gants. With that in mind I shall try and explain a few things from the Tyranid POV for you in the hope that it might give you a better idea how to spoil their plans.

 

Tervigons: The lynchpin of this style of nid army and possibly the best unit in the whole book! Generally speaking the termagants they are supporting/spawning can be though of as a combined weapon system i.e. the tervigon uses its host of gants as pseudo projectiles and or its own support in CC.

 

In the former role the tervion poops out a unit within 6" which then moves 6" and assaults 2d6 if the opportunity is there. This is done to eiither A. tarpit an enemy unit for a turn or so to protect the rest of the army (not necessarily doing much if any damage). or B. To outright damage/destroy a unit with direct support from the tervigon by ascess to its FC and 4+ poision buffs (being within 6" of the tervigon with conga-lines). In the latter role the Tervigon is pitching into the CC his/her/itself and using the gants to lock the enemy in place and pitch in a swarm of extra attacks to augment the already formidable 2(3)+d3 S10 ap2 attacks it already has. Thats +D3 from crushing claws and S10 from smash attack as it only sacrifices 1 of its base 3 attacks ("Tervifex" as they call it on TTH). Throw in some decent biomancy powers (+D3 toughness from iron arm is stupendously good here, as is the one that gives you FNP and "it will not die") and that Tervigon is hillariously dangerous to anything that can't smack it down before it strikes at I1. With 6 T6 (& up to to T9) wounds this can be a big problem for GK units without ALOT of I2+ forceweapons as you are rellying on shere attrition to get atleast one of those FW wounds through. And even then without a brotherhood banner you have shadow in the warp to contend with!

 

With that in mind the only units I would feel confident fighting a "Tervifex" in CC with would be a large GKT or Paladin blob with a bro-banner. If you can push 15-20 FW attacks before I1 then your probably pretty safe, trading hits at I1 with hammers is better than nothing but expect the tervigon to take up to half your squad with it before it dies! Hammernators could have a good go at this atleast with their 3++ invun but we only have asscess to these as allies. However do bear in mind that a good Nid players knows this too, and if theres one thing a Tervigon is good at its tarpitting units it does not want to fight on equal terms with its gants! GKT make a great "rock" to try and stall the nid advance but you stil need to be carefull about how you support them and where they make their stand, if you are not carefull the Nid player might be able to pacify them for several turns with gants etc. when they pull the rest of your army appart around them. (a 4-500pt unit that spends most the game fighting batches of 5pt (or even free) gants is arguably a better outcome than destroying them from the Nid POV as this means they can direct their serious killyness elsewhere.

 

Purifiers in turn basically laugh at hoards of tarpitting gants with cleansing flame & incinerators but are going to really struggle vs their "big momma". No Bro-banner means you are rellying on a 3d6 psytest to activate force weapons and hammerhand is likewize a bit of a gamble. Sometimes it will still work and you will laugh as the lumbering monster is FW'd to death before it strikes, but the opposite is also very much true and will bite you hard too often for fighting tervigons in CC for it to be a primary tactic for them. They can make a stupidly effective gant screen but where there are gants there is usually a Tervigon not far away and so I feel the purifiers are much more circumstantial, they will be broken too easily if the gants have propper monsterous creature supoport as they should and so unlike the termies cannot really be used as a "rock" to try and break the main nid advance so much as a support unit to contain breakouts of gribblies.

 

^ Long story short, the ideal is almost always going to be to shoot the tervigons to death, with GKT and paladins able to act as "insurance" blocker units. Kill ther tervigon and all termagant units within 6" take a crapload of casualties to boot, not to mention no more being spawned (less of a boon due to the 50-50% odds of a tervigon running out each time it spawns anyway). Psycannons as always are great for this, and psybolt stormbolters are worth their weight in gold when trying to wound T6, unfortunately however I suspecty most GK armies are going to struggle to focus fire to death more than one (possibly two at a push) monsterous creatures a turn which leads me to the fundamental synergy that is core to this kind of Nid army....

 

 

Tyrgons/Fexstars/Tyrantstars: I.e. the rest of the armies substance. There are two funadmental types of unit to consider here, the slow but unbelevably resiliant Fex and Tyrant "deathstars" and the fast and remarkably dangerous Trygons. Often you will face both when the enemy has lots of Tervigons but either provides a fundamental synergy the large investment in Tervigons requires.

 

The Deathstar units advancing alongside the Tervigons & gants provide an almost as imminent threat that is even more devastating in CC and considerably more resiliant to enemy shooting, and in the case of the Tyrantstar throws out some very tasty buffs to the rest of your army while they are at it. Both Fex and Tyrant stars make use of regenerate and "lookoutsir" to tank potentially stupid ammounts of shooting, A Tyrantstar in particular can take saves on the Tyrants 2+ armoured shell, share wounds with the Tyranid prime who also gets to try and regenerate them and palm off anything he/she/it dosen't want to take onto the hiveguard on a 2+. "Fexstars" do something simmilar but with regenerate on 2 primes and 2-3 fexes (but without the 2+ save and the army buffs)!

 

Trygons lack this insane resilience to shooting but make up for it by being much more imminent CC threats. Fleet allows you to make some respectably long charges with a resonable degree of reliablity and they are almost exactly as hard to drop as a Tervigon (T6, 3+sv, 6 wounds). Factor in the possibility of throwing them psypowers to get FNP & it will not die etc. from the Tervigon/zoanthropes etc. and they can represent a more imminent and dangerous threat than the Tervigons. Again a full sied GKT squad might not be too worried, just about anything else needs to watch the feth out vs 6-7, I4, S6-7, ap2 attacks! (plus HOW). An honourable mention must go here to raveners who can do a simmilar job with their silly charge range and vs anything not strength 8 or better can be absolute bitches to kill with 3 wounds a pop.

 

The purpose of these two types of unit is pretty simple, provide a target that will punish the enemy more than the Tervigons for not stopping them with shooting. Simple as that. The perfect Nid Tervigon/gant heavy build (in a vaccumb) ballances these two elements with each other, focus on the Tervigons and you risk the Trygons and deathstars tearing you a new one in CC when they get there, ignore the Tervigons to gimp the more overtly killy stuff and you may well findyourself drowning in tarpitty gants while the tervigons themselves slowly pull you appart.

Naturally no plan ever survives contact with the enemy but if this style of Nid army gets its way you are dammned if you do and dammned if you don't. Infact that in a nutshell is how I would describe the core tactics of any Nid armylist, force the enemy to have to choose which element of the army is the biggest threat to them at any given time whilst ensuring the elements they did not focus on can still punish them just as hard (allbeit often in a different way). Or better yet make the enemy split their fire priorities potentially leaving both (or more) elements still capable of functioning!

 

 

Psypowers/Zoanthropes: The last significant area I want to touch on here is the Nids newfound ability to throw out some truly disgusting psypower combinations. This splits into two main areas: Biomancy and telepathy/telekenesis.

 

Biomancy is potentially the big scary one as it can throw a huge spanner in the works for most of our counters. Can you imagine trying to knobble a T7-9 Tervigon or Tyrant? Suddernly your bolters can become next to useless against them, psycannons can be wouning on a 5 or 6, halberds & swords without HH might not even be able to wound them! Iron arm is seriously BADASS on a Tyrant or Tervigon and other biomancy powers like +D3 initiative or attacks, or FNP and the ability to regen a wound on a 5+ every turn (ontop of their own regenerate ability) can change the dynamic of a given fight enough to force a rapid change in tactics. Sudernly that GKT/paladin squad might not feel quite so confident about winning a CC, or the 2-3 full units of shooting you were planning to use to focus fire might not be worth it vs the target you had in mind. Long story short you really really need to pay attention to which powers they roll and which units have them, if not you may find yourself commiting to a fight you cannot hope to win, or being hat far harder than you anticipated.

 

The other side of the coin are zoanthropes which can now either turn themselves into little floating buff machines, or take 2-3 instances of pshychic scream which can decimate many units at close range with shere weight of hits. This is always going to be very situational and there are far too many possible combo's to list here save to say that just like the Tyrants and Tervigons it pays to keep an eye on what powers they have and what they can do with them. Sometimes those Zoanthropes may be the biggest threat (tho not usually), and as targets of opportunity can be very valuble.

 

 

 

 

^ With all of that in mind my fundamantal advice is actually very simple. Use a ballanced list! A varied collection of GK units each better than some roles than others will be better equipped to deal with the ebb and flow of target selection inherent to fighting Tyranids. Focus on one area and a good Nid player will punish you hard for it, if your list dosen't have robust ways of dealing with the following you are basically asking to be exploited:

 

• Containing tarpitting hoards of cheap troops: if the gants get their way you may really struggle to deal with the genuinely dangerous stuff as they will lock many of your biggest threats to their units in CC right when you need them.
  
• Dropping Monsterous creatures with focused ranged attacks: for most units MC's are best dealt with at arms length, and regardless this gives you some tactical flexibility armywide early on.
  
• Containing/discouraging MC's in/from close combat: Inevitably you are going to be faced with situations where you need a "rock" to stand as a physical buffer to maintain your battleline and or contain any breakthroughs. Only a fool would bank on Nids never getting any decent units into CC!
  

 

All GK units bring respectable shooting really but strike squads and purgators are ahead of the curve in pts-shot terms. A Strike squad in particular has basically double the shooting of a GKT squad for about half the price. 2 or 3 units can put out very impressive and effective firepower and with Psycannon & psybolts you can comfortabley focus fire the crap out of most things with them inc. MC's, wounding a T6 MC on a 5+ with a bolter is not to be underestimated especially when you factor in the S7 rending psycannon shots. However the 24" range and their relative crappyness in CC means they need a screen of badasses to try and keep them shooting for as long as possible.....

 

That'd be GKT and paladins then! Terminators can still pitch in with more of that lovely S5&7 torrent fire but pay a hefty premium to become a serious threat in CC to boot. Throw in some Rad grenades & prescience and the like and they can quickly become something most Nids wouldn't dare assault without softenting them up first. On that note I feel I must add, WATCH THE HELL OUT FOR DEVILGANTS! Seriously 15-20 of them firing 3 s4 shots each can quickly whittle that 10man GKT badass squad of badassery own to more managable levels if left unchecked. They will fold like paper dolls if you hit them back but dont underestimate them, they are one of the best counters Nids have to CC roadblocks. Glass hammers still hurt if the enemy gets to swing them...

 

As for hoarde containment three things spring to mind. Purifiers while expensive and fragile vs many units (relatively speaking) can pop up and singlehandedly blunt a breakthrough of small gribbly monsters, they also do a handsome job of blunting Yamargl stealers that may pop up in your backfield. Personally I wouldn't want more than a unit maybe two (ideally in a rhino or razor to react to enemy movements). Beyond that you have interceptors with incinerators who can jump out and victimise large blobs at strategic locations, and I suppose a few cheap blobs of acolytes who can act as cannonfoder screening units (tho I'm not so sure this is a great idea as nids can still throw out a decent volume of low quality shooting to clear them out before a charge)

 

 

I'm sure I've missed allsorts of glaringly obvious things with all that but I hope it might go some way to help you understand your enemy and how to defeat them. Theres no Magic "screw you Tyranids" counter that will allow one to mindlessly defeat them time after time, but then I disagree with your core premise that the Nid army in question does the same back. Nids require a delicate touch in many ways and if the enemys list is not constructed and used carefully with mutual support and an ability to adapt to an unfolding battle it will fall flat on its face vs a skilled opponent. Visa versa for any GK players facing them.

[number6]

There are some excellent insights there. But as a Tyranid player myself, there is only one thing that matters in keeping your army alive: keeping the Tervigons alive. As soon as they die, the army dies, nearly always, very few exceptions.

 

So a GK player should just shoot the heck out of Tervigons until they're dead. A lot of GK lists use a Stormraven. Target a Tervigon with a Stormraven and -- with mindstrikes plus a TLMM and TLLC -- that'll be one dead Tervigon and a bunch of dead gants to boot. One turn, poof. Then pour firepower into the other Tervigon. With an entire GK army firing on one Tervigon, almost no amount of FNP or cover will keep it alive.

 

This has happened to me when I face GKs so many times it literally isn't funny.

 

Shoot, shoot, shoot at Tervigons until they are dead, and you win the game. It's about that simple. You can suck up what the rest of the army can do to you until you accomplish that. Sacrifice a couple of rhinos or razorbacks or combat squads if you have to. Just so long as the Tervigons die by turn 2 or 3 -- easy to accomplish -- you'll be ahead of the game.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Don't take this the wrong way but what I see on the Internet a lot is people who have not had much success with 5ed Tyranids saying they are under-powered. I took mine to WarGamesCon this year and went 5-1-1 finishing in the top 20% out of over 200 players. I beat Space Wolves and Grey Knights. Just because an army is not easy to win with does not mean necessarily it is not a good army.

 

G ;)

[Inquisitor Fox]

I think the biggest thing to remember when fighting any horde is that we will always be outnumbered. Eventually it comes down to sheer number of boots on the ground and how many shots can you pump out before they get to you. Last edition I always hated fighting Tyrannids (even with my Sisters) due to the sheer effect of numbers. I always felt like I didn't have enough guns. I also hate Necrons because they just wont die, but that's another tale...

 

The big thing will be target priority. Since we are outnumbered and have limited guns, we have to allocate those guns to the targets that are truely the most important at that moment (or will become most important a few turns into the future). Learning to read the flow of a battle and pinpointing what targets are the biggest priority is a skill that takes practice. Just because that Tervigon isn't right next to you doesn't necessarily mean it's not the biggest threat. Sometimes even when the Tervigon is about to reach your line, the bigger threat might be the Genestealers that will be in melee unless they are shot this turn. Proper allocation of firepower is very key when you are the smaller army and you are facing weight of numbers.

 

To that end, we can also take a lesson from the Spartans, in utilizing terrain and movement to use the enemy weight of numbers against them. Concentrate your forces on one half of your board and throw a few units of Interceptors or a Dreadknight with teleporter on the other side. You either get a flanking maneuver, or the enemy deploys his forces to counter yours. On your first turn, shunt towards the main body of your forces. This tactic is also used by skimmer heavy or bike heavy armies, or anything 'cavalry' based. It allows to you get a localized advantage of numbers and firepower. Throw your entire army against just a portion of his and annihilate it before he can bring in reinforcements. Use terrain to block line of sight and more importantly deny him the ability to advance with many units at once. Keep the incoming units to just one or two and they're easier to shoot up and ignore more of his forces. Try and use terrain to make fire corridors for your template weapons. If he has to advance down an alley to get to you and you've got it covered with multiple incinierators, it's not going to be a good day for the horde.

 

Yes in many ways it's a random dice game, but sometimes working smarter can help tilt the odds in your favor before you even roll any dice.

[BrotherWasted]

Don't take this the wrong way but what I see on the Internet a lot is people who have not had much success with 5ed Tyranids saying they are under-powered. I took mine to WarGamesCon this year and went 5-1-1 finishing in the top 20% out of over 200 players. I beat Space Wolves and Grey Knights. Just because an army is not easy to win with does not mean necessarily it is not a good army.

 

G :D

 

If you have a lot of matchups that are not in your favour, then...no, you are not a good army, comparitively speaking. If you can go 5-1-1 with 'nids, that could be for a number of reasons (superior generalship notwithstanding).

 

I wonder how many 40kers play fighting games; the genre that basically INVENTED the concept of tiers. Each army in 40K is like a character in a fighting game, really. Some have more tools or options or other advantages of the rest of the roster/codexes. Taking players out of the equation is what tiers are about.

 

'Nids are underpowered. Compare their units, points and strategies against the rest of the 40k books and it's hard to make a convincing argument to the contrary. What can you do to them, what can they do to you, etc?