The thousand son Posted August 23, 2012 Author Share Posted August 23, 2012 You're worried that you won't be able to help your AoC/DA in CC, as you can't get within 1" of 'enemy' minis. Where as I'm saying that if you're going to help them out in CC, you need to charge into CC, and when charging into CC you're allowed to get within 1" of 'enemy' minis. You assume that helping your allies out is allowed. It might be possible that you are not allowed to help them out in cc. Maybe it is meant to be - We fight the same enemy right now, but i dont trust them. I hope they kill eachother - and which ever way, IM NOT STICKING MY HEAD INTO THAT! Maybe. But stating that if i want to help, i have to charge - is neglecting the fact that it is not clear if this is even intended. And even if you can, and you do - it might be ONLY during the assault you´re allowed to be within 1", meaning you will not pile very well (and might even get thrown out of combat due to not beeing able to get btb with the foe you ARE fighting) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The thousand son Posted August 23, 2012 Author Share Posted August 23, 2012 Even if true about b2b, I doubt that was the intent. And if it becomes an issue, I'm betting it will get FAQ'd. I get what you´re saying. I just think there is a possibility that the intention was indeed to put that disadvantage there. Like a way of saying - im not sticking my head into that, hope they all die... And btb is not the only issue. As far as i know, nothing allows you to be within 1" of an enemy (you´re not fighting) EXCEPT for the actual charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 You're worried that you won't be able to help your AoC/DA in CC, as you can't get within 1" of 'enemy' minis. Where as I'm saying that if you're going to help them out in CC, you need to charge into CC, and when charging into CC you're allowed to get within 1" of 'enemy' minis. You assume that helping your allies out is allowed. It might be possible that you are not allowed to help them out in cc. Maybe it is meant to be - We fight the same enemy right now, but i dont trust them. I hope they kill eachother - and which ever way, IM NOT STICKING MY HEAD INTO THAT! Maybe. But stating that if i want to help, i have to charge - is neglecting the fact that it is not clear if this is even intended. And even if you can, and you do - it might be ONLY during the assault you´re allowed to be within 1", meaning you will not pile very well (and might even get thrown out of combat due to not beeing able to get btb with the foe you ARE fighting) If that were so, then surely it'd state that you cannot charge into a combat containing your allies? I think it's more likely to be the intent that you can, rather than you can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 "A model cannot move within 1" of an enemy model unless they are charging into close combat."(6th Edition Rulebook, p. 10) "All of the models in a charging unit make their charge move - up to the 2D6 distance you rolled earlier - following the same rules as in the movement phase, with the exception that they can be moved within 1" of enemy models. Charging models still cannot move through friendly or enemy models, cannot pass through gaps narrower than their base, and cannot move into base contact with enemy models from a unit they are not charging."(6th Edition Rulebook, p. 21) "At the start of each Initiative step, any model whose Initiative is equal to the value of the current Initiative step, that isn't already in base contact with an enemy model, must make a Pile In move. (...)These moves follow the same rules as moving charging models, except that they are not slowed by difficult terrain (...)" (6th Edition Rulebook, p. 23) I.e. Models that are charging or piling in are allowed to move within 1" of enemy models. It does not matter whether they had declared a charge against the enemy model or not. The restriction to not move within 1" of enemy models is completely ignored when charging or piling in. However, charging or piling in models may still not move into base contact with enemy models they are not charging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 You assume that helping your allies out is allowed. No I'm not. I'm follwing the RAW. No assuption here. But stating that if i want to help, i have to charge How *else* do you intend to 'help' your ally in CC, without charging into CC yourself? - is neglecting the fact that it is not clear if this is even intended. Intended can go fly. Follow the rules. And even if you can, and you do - it might be ONLY during the assault you´re allowed to be within 1", meaning you will not pile very well (and might even get thrown out of combat due to not beeing able to get btb with the foe you ARE fighting) Pile in concern answered by Legatus. What's the issue here again? Or is this rather a fluff question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The thousand son Posted August 24, 2012 Author Share Posted August 24, 2012 You assume that helping your allies out is allowed. No I'm not. I'm follwing the RAW. No assuption here. But stating that if i want to help, i have to charge How *else* do you intend to 'help' your ally in CC, without charging into CC yourself? - is neglecting the fact that it is not clear if this is even intended. Intended can go fly. Follow the rules. And even if you can, and you do - it might be ONLY during the assault you´re allowed to be within 1", meaning you will not pile very well (and might even get thrown out of combat due to not beeing able to get btb with the foe you ARE fighting) Pile in concern answered by Legatus. What's the issue here again? Or is this rather a fluff question? Is it written that you can ´help´out your ally in cc? I havn seen it, where is it? If i is not written thn it´s an assumption that you can. THAT is one os the issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The thousand son Posted August 24, 2012 Author Share Posted August 24, 2012 "A model cannot move within 1" of an enemy model unless they are charging into close combat."(6th Edition Rulebook, p. 10) "All of the models in a charging unit make their charge move - up to the 2D6 distance you rolled earlier - following the same rules as in the movement phase, with the exception that they can be moved within 1" of enemy models. Charging models still cannot move through friendly or enemy models, cannot pass through gaps narrower than their base, and cannot move into base contact with enemy models from a unit they are not charging."(6th Edition Rulebook, p. 21) "At the start of each Initiative step, any model whose Initiative is equal to the value of the current Initiative step, that isn't already in base contact with an enemy model, must make a Pile In move. (...)These moves follow the same rules as moving charging models, except that they are not slowed by difficult terrain (...)" (6th Edition Rulebook, p. 23) I.e. Models that are charging or piling in are allowed to move within 1" of enemy models. It does not matter whether they had declared a charge against the enemy model or not. The restriction to not move within 1" of enemy models is completely ignored when charging or piling in. However, charging or piling in models may still not move into base contact with enemy models they are not charging. Thank you. That actually clears alot of the issue. Then we´re only faced with the pactical issue of piling, not a rule-problem. (Combats tend to get tight at pile in, and the allies will no be allowed to pile in certain circumstnces, or even get thrown out of combt due to inability to keep one model in base contact) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Is it written that you can ´help´out your ally in cc? I havn seen it, where is it? If i is not written thn it´s an assumption that you can. THAT is one os the issues. Sorry, I have absolutley no idea what you mean, or what you're asking here. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The thousand son Posted August 24, 2012 Author Share Posted August 24, 2012 Is it written that you can ´help´out your ally in cc? I havn seen it, where is it? If i is not written thn it´s an assumption that you can. THAT is one os the issues. Sorry, I have absolutley no idea what you mean, or what you're asking here. ;) I was asking which rule that says allies can help out in cc, since the only rule i know of is that they are untargettable enemies. Which could meam that a fight with an opponent and an ally is untargettable for your army. Now that has become somewhat moot since its been cleared that you CAN help, pile etc - as long as you dont make base contact. If you would - you cannot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kastor Krieg Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 I'd say you can charge into CC containing those allies IF you can avoid getting b2b with them (for example charge the other side of the enemy unit, kinda hammer-and-anvil them between you and the allies). You can't stack up on the back of the Ally unit though like you normally could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 You can't stack up on the back of the Ally unit though like you normally could. You never could... You can charge form the same side as your ally, you can even charge the same enemy models as your ally... the only thing is you cannot actually come into B-to-B contact with your allied unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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