Rune Priests: A Theory

[Captain Idaho]

Psykers were still allowed, just not allowed to manifest their powers.

 

Without wanting to sound combatative, I must say it sounds like those making excuses for the Space Wolves here are using a lot of "ifs" and "might haves" to try and circumnavigate the facts of the equation.

 

And if you don't believe an "insider" then it's pretty much a lost cause!

[Gree]

You obviously haven't read much about the Rout if you think a fancy title is going to impress them into being polite. A Wolf Lord gets into a stand off with Magnus, he relents of course, but if you think scuh and such of such and such chapter is going to get respect for wearing gold armour you need to read the novels involving Space wolves or the Rout.

 

I expect the Space Wolves to understand the need for a Primarch's personal security. If the person in charge of a Primarch's safety askes questions then they are being dead serious with the concern of their charge and of the fleet.

 

Bolded text. Does he use any powers, I asked a direct question. Being a psyker isn't the issue only psykers can use powers obviously. But if being a psyker is a crime did all the legions kill their librarians? No obviously not.

 

"The seer looked away from the patch of dull metal bulkhead that had been occupying his sight and met Redknife’s gaze. ‘Forgiveness, jarl,’ he said. ‘My thoughts were disturbed by our passing into the ghost-realm.’

 

‘Be sure our angelic hosts are not aware of that,’ Redknife warned. ‘The black-armoured one watches you for witchery.’

 

Stiel gave a thin smile, pulling at the ink-vine scar that crossed the length of his face. ‘My deeds are as opaque as my words. They can see through neither unless I wish it.’

[Baluc]

You obviously haven't read much about the Rout if you think a fancy title is going to impress them into being polite. A Wolf Lord gets into a stand off with Magnus, he relents of course, but if you think scuh and such of such and such chapter is going to get respect for wearing gold armour you need to read the novels involving Space wolves or the Rout.

 

I expect the Space Wolves to understand the need for a Primarch's personal security. If the person in charge of a Primarch's safety askes questions then they are being dead serious with the concern of their charge and of the fleet.

 

Bolded text. Does he use any powers, I asked a direct question. Being a psyker isn't the issue only psykers can use powers obviously. But if being a psyker is a crime did all the legions kill their librarians? No obviously not.

 

"The seer looked away from the patch of dull metal bulkhead that had been occupying his sight and met Redknife’s gaze. ‘Forgiveness, jarl,’ he said. ‘My thoughts were disturbed by our passing into the ghost-realm.’

 

‘Be sure our angelic hosts are not aware of that,’ Redknife warned. ‘The black-armoured one watches you for witchery.’

 

Stiel gave a thin smile, pulling at the ink-vine scar that crossed the length of his face. ‘My deeds are as opaque as my words. They can see through neither unless I wish it.’

 

 

Thanks for the quote!

 

So there is is in black and white a Runie Priest used a power. Their by breaking the edict.

 

On the first point. I'm sure they are being serious, but does this particular Wolf Lord care to be questioned by someone of unproven honour? And, when I say proven I mean to him, or the Rout. Rude for sure, but what does this have to do with breaking Nikea? He's just being an ass.

 

Captian Idaho, I hope you're not refering to me? I though I was being pretty level headed about this...

[Gree]

On the first point. I'm sure they are being serious, but does this particular Wolf Lord care to be questioned by someone of unproven honour? And, when I say proven I mean to him, or the Rout.

 

This is Sanguinius's personal bodyguard. If Redknife had no faith in the commander, then he has no faith in Sanguinius. If Redknife wants to meet with Ssnguinius then be better be sure to answer the questions of Sanguinius's bodyguards. If he has no respect for the head of Sanguinius's personal bodyguard then that is going to make meeting with Sanguinius difficult indeed. In fact The Blood Angel commander serious comtemplates telling the Wolves to go away for their rudeness.

 

This is not a case with a jumped up nobleman trying to bully the Wolves. This is a trusted officer of Sanguinius pointing out with concern that they are breaking the Emperor’s Laws. This is an officer in charge of protecting a Primarch and the fleet. This is a matter of internal security. This is someone to take quite seriously. If they don't care to answer him then they might as well be insulting Sanguinius himself.

 

Rude for sure, but what does this have to do with breaking Nikea? He's just being an ass.

 

The Blood Angel commander points out twice that he is breaking the Edict. The Space Wolf retorts that the Rune Priest is not a psyker and that he draws his power from Fenris and that he will offer no other explanation. If the Rune Priest is not using any powers or is returned to the ranks of the mundane battle brothers, then he does not explain that at all.

[Captain Idaho]

Captian Idaho, I hope you're not refering to me? I though I was being pretty level headed about this...

 

No I wasn't. And it was supposed to be accompanied by this: :D as it was intended to be a tongue in cheek and playful rather than an attack or insult. Apologies.

[Angel of Solitude]

Having watched this debate develop from the background, I have a few thoughts that may perhaps help explain the Space Wolve's position. The key accusation is that the Space Wolves were being extremely hypocritical in their apparent open breach of the Emperor's Edict - as per the quote Gree gives above. However, in both The Primarchs and now Fear to Tread, we have seen two chapters openly defy the Edict, and the reason for defying was practically the same in each case: the use of such power is the only effective way of containing the warp.

 

Arguably, through their actions on Prospero, the Space Wolves too must be aware that psychic powers are the only effective way of countering daemons and the like. Also remember that the Space Wolves have been assigned to the Blood Angels to act as execuitioners, should it be that the Blood Angels pledge allegience to Horus.

 

Now at the point of joining the Blood Angels, the critical point has to be that the Blood Angels do not have any knowledge of the Horus Heresy, and at that point they have not had any dealing with the Ruinous Powers. We see this demonstrated in the strict way in which the Wardens watch for the use of psychic powers. The Space Wolves, knowing that the Blood Angels do not yet know of the Heresy, therefore do have to keep their psychic activity under wraps lest they be subject to retribution by the wardens, and ultimately Sanguinius himself.

 

I'd argue that as soon as a chapter has knowledge of the heresy, and that Horus has turned to Chaos, then at this point the Edict is deemed null and void. The Edict was not issued in the landscape of open rebellion and warfare between brother marines. To create a level playing field, you have to reinstate your librarius.

 

The other implication of this line of thought is that given that the Space Wolves are attached to the Blood Angels by request of the Sigillite, the Sigillite must have approved of the Space Wolves' use of psychic powers - implicity or explicitly.

[Baluc]

On the first point. I'm sure they are being serious, but does this particular Wolf Lord care to be questioned by someone of unproven honour? And, when I say proven I mean to him, or the Rout.

 

This is Sanguinius's personal bodyguard. If Redknife had no faith in the commander, then he has no faith in Sanguinius. If Redknife wants to meet with Ssnguinius then be better be sure to answer the questions of Sanguinius's bodyguards. If he has no respect for the head of Sanguinius's personal bodyguard then that is going to make meeting with Sanguinius difficult indeed. In fact The Blood Angel commander serious comtemplates telling the Wolves to go away for their rudeness.

 

This is not a case with a jumped up nobleman trying to bully the Wolves. This is a trusted officer of Sanguinius pointing out with concern that they are breaking the Emperor’s Laws. This is an officer in charge of protecting a Primarch and the fleet. This is a matter of internal security. This is someone to take quite seriously. If they don't care to answer him then they might as well be insulting Sanguinius himself.

 

Rude for sure, but what does this have to do with breaking Nikea? He's just being an ass.

 

The Blood Angel commander points out twice that he is breaking the Edict. The Space Wolf retorts that the Rune Priest is not a psyker and that he draws his power from Fenris and that he will offer no other explanation. If the Rune Priest is not using any powers or is returned to the ranks of the mundane battle brothers, then he does not explain that at all.

 

You've read Prospero burn I assume? The Rout don't respect Titles or positions, you have to prove your worth through action. If they he had recited his saga maybe he might get a more polite response. But these are two strangers from two cultures not making allowances for each other. And Redknife is being an ass about it. Did the commander see, or get a report of the Rune Priest using a power? I'm assuming not or this would have been a bigger issue? So he asked is that a psyker. Redknife says no, Blood angel doesn't believe him, thinks about it and the plot continues.

[Gree]

You've read Prospero burn I assume? The Rout don't respect Titles or positions, you have to prove your worth through action. If they he had recited his saga maybe he might get a more polite response.

 

T I have read Prospero Burns. This is not about them having Kaspar Haweser prove himself. This is not about them having problems with the Thousand Sons, their rival legion. This is a Space Wolf commander as a guest in another Legion's fleet being questioned by a high-ranking officer of that Legion. The Rout do respect titles or positions amoung other Astartes, especially if they're guests in another Astartes Legion. Or would Redknife ask the Emperor to recit his saga before he obeyed an order from him? Or would Redknife ask Horus to recite his saga before he obeyed his orders?

 

But Redknife does respect the Blood Angels and the commander. He even points out to Stiel later that the Blood Angels are not to be taken lightly at all. This is not a case of Redknife not thinking Azekaellon worthy or not. This is Redknife not wanting to answer an uncomfortable question.

[Captain Idaho]

Having watched this debate develop from the background, I have a few thoughts that may perhaps help explain the Space Wolve's position. The key accusation is that the Space Wolves were being extremely hypocritical in their apparent open breach of the Emperor's Edict - as per the quote Gree gives above. However, in both The Primarchs and now Fear to Tread, we have seen two chapters openly defy the Edict, and the reason for defying was practically the same in each case: the use of such power is the only effective way of containing the warp.

 

Arguably, through their actions on Prospero, the Space Wolves too must be aware that psychic powers are the only effective way of countering daemons and the like. Also remember that the Space Wolves have been assigned to the Blood Angels to act as execuitioners, should it be that the Blood Angels pledge allegience to Horus.

 

Now at the point of joining the Blood Angels, the critical point has to be that the Blood Angels do not have any knowledge of the Horus Heresy, and at that point they have not had any dealing with the Ruinous Powers. We see this demonstrated in the strict way in which the Wardens watch for the use of psychic powers. The Space Wolves, knowing that the Blood Angels do not yet know of the Heresy, therefore do have to keep their psychic activity under wraps lest they be subject to retribution by the wardens, and ultimately Sanguinius himself.

 

I'd argue that as soon as a chapter has knowledge of the heresy, and that Horus has turned to Chaos, then at this point the Edict is deemed null and void. The Edict was not issued in the landscape of open rebellion and warfare between brother marines. To create a level playing field, you have to reinstate your librarius.

 

The other implication of this line of thought is that given that the Space Wolves are attached to the Blood Angels by request of the Sigillite, the Sigillite must have approved of the Space Wolves' use of psychic powers - implicity or explicitly.

 

That's a jump to conclusions based upon speculation. We don't have information to suggest Malacador is aware of the Space Wolves use of Psychics, whether he has had the time to decide what to do about it, to report it to the Emperor, whether Russ has had a chewing out, whether the necessity of an emergency conflict meant there wasn't time to punish the Space Wolves.

 

Essentially it's a bit much to suppose the Space Wolves had approval just because they were sent to accompany the Blood Angels.

 

Anyway, there is a nice bit of irony that the Space Wolves actions on Prospero lead the way in educating the Imperium. We can call the Wolves the Crucial Hypocrits, in a way!

[Angel of Solitude]

That's a jump to conclusions based upon speculation. We don't have information to suggest Malacador is aware of the Space Wolves use of Psychics, whether he has had the time to decide what to do about it, to report it to the Emperor, whether Russ has had a chewing out, whether the necessity of an emergency conflict meant there wasn't time to punish the Space Wolves.

 

Essentially it's a bit much to suppose the Space Wolves had approval just because they were sent to accompany the Blood Angels.

I wouldn't call it jumping to conclusions, I'd say it's more developing a hypothesis based on the evidence presented. You're absolutely correct, we have no evidence to suggest Malacador is employing the use of psychics, or that he has sanctioned this use in any way at all. However, it does seem quite convenient that Malacador has sent out the Space Wolves to execute Sanguinius if need be, and that they also appear to be contravening the Edict and making use of pyschic powers - exactly the defence needed should Sanguinius fall to the powers of Chaos.

 

I suppose I was trying to offer an explanation that would be consistent with the Space Wolves not breaking the Edict - i.e. that they were aware that the Heresy was in full swing (which the Blood Angels did not) and that the use of pyschic powers is a necessary defence (which the Blood Angels did not yet know). The Lion and the Dark Angels also fit this criteria.

[Captain Idaho]

Executing Sanguinius? How's that a logical hypothesis to draw? :)

 

The thing is, the simplest solution is often the most accurate:

 

The Space Wolves simply are naive enough to believe they aren't using Psychic powers but instead drawing the powers from Fenris, as confirmed directly by themselves. They are thus breaking the edict but don't believe they are doing so, due to a lack of understanding. They are hypocritical but of course not deliberately and maliciously, just ignorantly.

 

or

 

The Space Wolves have been given the permission to flout the ruling of the Emperor, despite there being no evidence of such. They are also Tasked to destroy the other Legions, despite there being no evidence of this. Lastly, all of this information is unofficial, as the Emperor hasn't formally announced it. So for all this to be possible, we have to suppose the Emperor convinced his Primarchs Leman Russ' Legion were allowed to keep their Psykers despite the whole Nikea thing, that the Emperor anticpated the need for the Space Wolves to need the Psykers but not the other Legions, the Emperor created the Sisters of Silence to control his Space Wolves rather than destroy enemy Psykers, the Emperor did in fact design the Space Wolves as executioners etc.

 

Now, which one slides easiest into the explanation of the situation?

[A D-B]

Executing Sanguinius? How's that a logical hypothesis to draw? :)

 

The thing is, the simplest solution is often the most accurate:

 

The Space Wolves simply are naive enough to believe they aren't using Psychic powers but instead drawing the powers from Fenris, as confirmed directly by themselves. They are thus breaking the edict but don't believe they are doing so, due to a lack of understanding. They are hypocritical but of course not deliberately and maliciously, just ignorantly.

 

or

 

The Space Wolves have been given the permission to flout the ruling of the Emperor, despite there being no evidence of such. They are also Tasked to destroy the other Legions, despite there being no evidence of this. Lastly, all of this information is unofficial, as the Emperor hasn't formally announced it. So for all this to be possible, we have to suppose the Emperor convinced his Primarchs Leman Russ' Legion were allowed to keep their Psykers despite the whole Nikea thing, that the Emperor anticpated the need for the Space Wolves to need the Psykers but not the other Legions, the Emperor created the Sisters of Silence to control his Space Wolves rather than destroy enemy Psykers, the Emperor did in fact design the Space Wolves as executioners etc.

 

Now, which one slides easiest into the explanation of the situation?

 

You rock, dude. That sums it up perfectly and succinctly.

[Baluc]

You've read Prospero burn I assume? The Rout don't respect Titles or positions, you have to prove your worth through action. If they he had recited his saga maybe he might get a more polite response.

 

T I have read Prospero Burns. This is not about them having Kaspar Haweser prove himself. This is not about them having problems with the Thousand Sons, their rival legion. This is a Space Wolf commander as a guest in another Legion's fleet being questioned by a high-ranking officer of that Legion. The Rout do respect titles or positions amoung other Astartes, especially if they're guests in another Astartes Legion. Or would Redknife ask the Emperor to recit his saga before he obeyed an order from him? Or would Redknife ask Horus to recite his saga before he obeyed his orders?

 

But Redknife does respect the Blood Angels and the commander. He even points out to Stiel later that the Blood Angels are not to be taken lightly at all. This is not a case of Redknife not thinking Azekaellon worthy or not. This is Redknife not wanting to answer an uncomfortable question.

 

Every member of the Rout knows the saga of Horus Luperical, but if you think they are just going to accept that because Abaddon is first captain he's worthy of the position you haven't understood the Rout at all. Acknowledging that the Blood Angels are dangerous doesn't warrant respect of course they are dangerous they are astartes, as a legion ofcourse they are due respect. This Commander, yet to be decided. So if some guy ask you about something your not comfortable discussing in public, and you have to respond, your answer is going to be a round about sort of answer. Its one the powers of speaking you can say one thing and mean anouther. What he said could ultimately just mean, "We're not discussing this, make a choice what happens next."

 

I don't believe if a Primarch asked Redknife if his rune priest is using powers he'd give them the run around. But ultimately I can't prove it so its beyond the point.

 

Essentially we've reach the tipping point of the discussion, the Rout broke the Edict, they don't think they are exempt.

[Gree]

Every member of the Rout knows the saga of Horus Luperical, but if you think they are just going to accept that because Abaddon is first captain he's worthy of the position you haven't understood the Rout at all.

 

I understand them perfectly fine.

 

This Commander, yet to be decided. So if some guy ask you about something your not comfortable discussing in public, and you have to respond, your answer is going to be a round about sort of answer. Its one the powers of speaking you can say one thing and mean anouther. What he said could ultimately just mean, "We're not discussing this, make a choice what happens next."

 

This is not just some asking asking stuff that you are uncfortable with. This is your host who is pointing out that you are breaking the law.

[Baluc]

Every member of the Rout knows the saga of Horus Luperical, but if you think they are just going to accept that because Abaddon is first captain he's worthy of the position you haven't understood the Rout at all.

 

I understand them perfectly fine.

 

This Commander, yet to be decided. So if some guy ask you about something your not comfortable discussing in public, and you have to respond, your answer is going to be a round about sort of answer. Its one the powers of speaking you can say one thing and mean anouther. What he said could ultimately just mean, "We're not discussing this, make a choice what happens next."

 

This is not just some asking asking stuff that you are uncfortable with. This is your host who is pointing out that you are breaking the law.

 

It was rude... what more do you want. The Blood angel pussied out, pretty much vindicating Redknife's front. So in the end rude or not it work, no? I'm not neven sure what the point of this side discussion is anymore really...

[Marshal Rohr]

You obviously don't hold the Blood Angels in much esteem then. Considering the guy in gold armor is Saguinius equerry or some such. It's also widely held that Sanguinius is one of the few above the rest Primarchs by the community. Russ couldn't kill Magnus. Sanguinius broke Khorne's favorite over his knee. Sanguinius also gave his life defending the Imperial Palace giving the Emperor a way to kill Horus. Russ couldn't find the time to help out at Terra. Sanguinius will always be more important and a greater Primarch.

[Lord Ragnarok]

Ahh this debate again. Well it's run it's course twice. Lots of opinions, lots of subjectivity and the usual snarky and derogatory commentary in the guise of passionate debating.

 

Providing the Emperor's Peace to another session of riding the atomic merry go round of doom....