Arthanor Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Hi all, First foray into this side of the forum for me. Hopefully the black armor will allow me to blend in ^_^ Like many others, I will soon acquire an small force of gorgeous, warp tainted models. My favorite chaos groups are Word Bearers and Red Corsairs, which works especially well as they are both present in the same area. That being said, I don't know how well they cooperate and, unlike them, I do have a preference for a certain scheming god, while I have no love for sickness and gooey stuff. So I was wondering... What would you guys think of the idea of having a small group of heretical Word Bearers whose views of the chaos pantheon is not strictly balanced, instead favoring Tzeentch? I was thinking of an acolyte, who, through his hope of reaching the station of Dark Apostle, and the scheming that it entails, comes to be more dedicated to Tzeentch and neglects his service to the god of despair, since, well, he is an hopeful chap! Slaanesh and Khorne remain "balanced." This failure to uphold proper service to all chaos gods would be used by a threatened rival, resulting in his censure and expulsion (or escape) from the host. Following his censure, the acolyte flees along with his few (chosen) followers, and the coven becomes affiliated with the Red Corsairs since it is much better not to be isolated. This would open up a combination of Word Bearer/Tzeentch/Red Corsairs, in a similar way to The Sanctified being a mix of Word Bearer/Khorne/World Eaters. Thinking of a deep crimson scheme with some purple/blue/pink thrown in, with metallic trim. If I add to them later, the reinforcement would be from the Red Corsairs, leaving the options open. My knowledge of the warp being limited, I turn to you for further guidance. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259509-heretical-word-bearers/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dammeron Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Why not? The Word Bearers have been developing and exercising their faith for millennia. Look to actual history for reference; how many schisms, off-shoots and sects had the pervasive traditional ideologies we currently reference in (post) modern culture developed within their first century of existence? To think that Sicarus (Lorgar's cathedral-daemon world) and the Word Bearers that inhabit it haven't suffered any number of holy wars, schisms, apostasies, revelations, heresies etc is beyond absurd. I imagine there are any number of Word Bearers who have had "revelations" of their own who have either been exiled for their presumption or left of their own accord, following visions, auguries etc. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Lorgar and the upper echelons of the Word Bearers in fact foster and encourage this as a means of fuelling the conflict and passions that necessarily inform and feed the entities they worship as divine. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259509-heretical-word-bearers/#findComment-3156984 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoros Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Sure, why not? It's been said that "no warrior of Lorgar has ever left the legion", but you can explain that away with them being banished or with the "no true Scotsman" fallacy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259509-heretical-word-bearers/#findComment-3157012 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthanor Posted August 24, 2012 Author Share Posted August 24, 2012 I had never heard of that! I guess it's supposed to be about the incredible charisma of Lorgar? (even though he doesn't come out to talk to the guys anymore, right?) If the Acolyte still considers himself a Word Bearer and indeed intends to come back to the fold (proving his rival wrong by forcefully removing them and anyone else who agrees with him), then he could be considered as not having left the legion. He would just leave the host that is unfavorable to his choice of worship: a more utilitarian way of favoring one god over others if that suits your aims. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259509-heretical-word-bearers/#findComment-3157025 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ammonius Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Welcome to Chaos! In the Siege of Vraks books from Forge World, there is a warband called "The Sanctified" who are a Khorne worshipping Word Bearer splinter group. I think your idea has both merit, and precedent in the fluff I consider canon, so go for it! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259509-heretical-word-bearers/#findComment-3157030 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beachymike123 Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 welcome to the winning side of the long war. in regards to your warband, why not just say that the dark apostle has come to spread the word to the younger astartes and assimilated a group of red corsairs into his host? it would have merit, and could breed hatred with a rival dark apostle as he (the rival) sees the corsairs as unworthy of joining the hallowed ranks of the most zealous of legions? just my 2p worth geezer. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259509-heretical-word-bearers/#findComment-3157333 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HJL Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 no word bearer has ever fallen..... again.... honestly though i have wondered why there hasnt been a warband that has fallen from the undivided path. i think that there probably have been groups that have, but that they have been hunted down and killed or executed before they could escape. It would be a cool back story to have a word bearers band fighting along side some red corsairs as a splinter group. In exchange for fighting for Huron, he offers them protection from the word bearers legion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259509-heretical-word-bearers/#findComment-3157336 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearingtheword Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 I think it's a very plausible idea, not to mention all the great suggestions and ideas the rest of the brethren have given to you. I say run with it, but be sure to keep us posted on your progress and take lots of pics :devil: ~BtW Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259509-heretical-word-bearers/#findComment-3157349 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThisisJimmy Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 Great idea you have got brewing there mate. As everyone has said, this is Chaos and everything is possible! If you wanted to keep the idea that your Word Bearer still considers himself as such, maybe his expulsion could be the result of a rival in the Host (perhaps even his Apostle) exposing his "heretical" thoughts, and so he leaves with his most faithful cadre for the "safety" of the Maelstrom and they find themselves in league with the Red Corsairs for some reason (remember, this is Chaos! :huh:). Just a suggestion, but a great idea mate, make sure you keep us posted as to how you go :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259509-heretical-word-bearers/#findComment-3157451 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amalricus Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 I really don't see why a host couldn't tend towards one god in particular while staying in the Legion, The Word beares are undivided, which doesn't mean every single one of them serves every god with the same devotion, but that they favour every God / being in the warp, some WB stay "neutral", but in 10 000 years of struggle, some are bound to deviate from the canon undivided belief. Anthony Reynold's novels describe WB coteries leaning towards Khorne, Khalaxis, their aspiring champ' is frowned upon, because of that, but he keeps his rank because he's effective at what he does, wouldn't there be a way to extend that idea to a warband / host? You could simply say he was sent further away from the core of the Legion to enroll marines as a penance for being kind of exclusive, or that the Dark Counsil uses him to expand in that particular area by converting planets / warbands to Tzeench, thus enabling their fall to chaos. All in all, you could do whatever you wish, this is chaos, it's an infinity of possibilities, past present and to become. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259509-heretical-word-bearers/#findComment-3157734 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hummus Posted August 26, 2012 Share Posted August 26, 2012 daemon world by ben counter features a word bearer kill team trying to take down a heretic word bearer Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259509-heretical-word-bearers/#findComment-3158396 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthanor Posted August 27, 2012 Author Share Posted August 27, 2012 I leave for the weekend and.. So.. Many.. Replies! My will was wavering but you guys are doing well at keeping me going! You're all supportive, so I'm glad to see my idea had some merit. It's a change to read "This is chaos, everything is possible" instead of "Nah, doesn't fit with imperial precedents" :) Maybe I am starting to see the lure of freedom that made so many fall! In the Siege of Vraks books from Forge World, there is a warband called "The Sanctified" who are a Khorne worshipping Word Bearer splinter group. Indeed, I did a quick Lexicanum research before posting and that showed me that there was some precedent. It's one of the reasons why I decided to go with the idea. I don't like breaking the existing story. in regards to your warband, why not just say that the dark apostle has come to spread the word to the younger astartes and assimilated a group of red corsairs into his host? it would have merit, and could breed hatred with a rival dark apostle as he (the rival) sees the corsairs as unworthy of joining the hallowed ranks of the most zealous of legions? just my 2p worth geezer. Well, my understanding of the Word Bearers as a decidedly chaos undivided legion makes it difficult to have a focus on Tzeentch in the warband. I went with the exiled/heretic idea because the warband is not behaving in an orthodox way. I really don't see why a host couldn't tend towards one god in particular while staying in the Legion, The Word beares are undivided, which doesn't mean every single one of them serves every god with the same devotion, but that they favour every God / being in the warp, some WB stay "neutral", but in 10 000 years of struggle, some are bound to deviate from the canon undivided belief. Anthony Reynold's novels describe WB coteries leaning towards Khorne, Khalaxis, their aspiring champ' is frowned upon, because of that, but he keeps his rank because he's effective at what he does, wouldn't there be a way to extend that idea to a warband / host? You could simply say he was sent further away from the core of the Legion to enroll marines as a penance for being kind of exclusive, or that the Dark Counsil uses him to expand in that particular area by converting planets / warbands to Tzeentch, thus enabling their fall to chaos. The warband would indeed remain Word Bearers, just that a (currently more powerful) rival played his cards well, using the unorthodox worship of the warband to argue that they did not deserve to be part of the council. He managed to get them exiled, removing them as a threat to himself (and taking over all their assets). Exile and having to fend for themselves while avoiding those wanting to gain status by "eradicating the deviant element" that they represent seems a better sanction than making people fall to Tzeentch. That seems to be "sin more so your sins will be forgiven" (wouldn't that be nice?). no word bearer has ever fallen..... again.... honestly though i have wondered why there hasnt been a warband that has fallen from the undivided path. i think that there probably have been groups that have, but that they have been hunted down and killed or executed before they could escape. What do you make of groups like the Sanctified, who are no longer undivided worshipers but have a very obvious preference? Are they still Word Bearers? My knowledge of chaos is fairly slim so I did not know of that quote, nor am I sure what to make of it. In this case, how far can you go before "falling"? Can you still be a Word Bearer despite having been exiled from the main body for heretical worship? It would be a cool back story to have a word bearers band fighting along side some red corsairs as a splinter group. In exchange for fighting for Huron, he offers them protection from the word bearers legion. If you wanted to keep the idea that your Word Bearer still considers himself as such, maybe his expulsion could be the result of a rival in the Host (perhaps even his Apostle) exposing his "heretical" thoughts, and so he leaves with his most faithful cadre for the "safety" of the Maelstrom and they find themselves in league with the Red Corsairs for some reason (remember, this is Chaos! :D). Just a suggestion, but a great idea mate, make sure you keep us posted as to how you go :) Indeed, the warband would be working for Huron, providing Warp knowledge and demon summoning to make themselves useful. This "working relationship" with the main power in the Maelstrom gives them some measure of protection. At the same time they are trying to convert further marines/cultists and gain in strength but in a way that doesn't look like "poaching" to the Red Corsairs. (The current force being the one in the starter set works really well for that: Leader/Dark Apostle/Acolyte and his chosen few with their small following of cultists. Further recruits would be generic renegades/red corsairs). The group is gaining in strength while walking the fine line to not come into direct opposition with any other faction. Once strong enough, they intend to strike at the rival who got them exiled, to prove that their way was the right way (since it made them stronger) and thus recover their "full membership" to the Word Bearers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259509-heretical-word-bearers/#findComment-3159226 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ordo Machinum Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 Just a quick thought: Who says they're REALLY being heretical? The band may have been sent out to gather others and slowly bring them into the fold. First as devotees of a single god, then inexorably to the undivided side. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259509-heretical-word-bearers/#findComment-3163551 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 I think there are three reference materials relevant to the discussion. Two have already been presented: The Sanctified and Daemon World(Amazing book by the way.) The third one would be the Word Bearers series by Anthoney Reynolds. (Spoilers will follow but I hope they aren't too bad) In there, we see the Word Bearers live up to their religion of Chaos Incarnate and Might makes Right. We see some infighting and some groups leading toward individual squads, which would make sense. A squad that is always pushing into the front lines and is always fighting in the melee and is always creating as much havoc and destruction as possible is going to lean towards Khorne, if not just fully fall down the path towards his worship. Same thing with warriors who take pride in their capabilities and seek to bring them to the peek of perfection or take pleasure from inflicting suffering on others. And the fact that each Host is led by a Dark Apostle who has his own unique command structure and who's word is law, it is very possible for an Apostle to wake up one day and go "Hey, I don't think Erebus and the Dark Council are leading us down the right path. Some of the orders they have been giving out don't exactly jive with the Word of Lorgar. I think I'm going to lead us on a crusade of truth to rediscover the new path." and then do it, either as Word Bearers or as another group. Like A-D-B's Night Lords, they were still Night Lords but people recognized them first as the Warband of the Exalted and then the Warband of the Broken Aquila. You could just do something like the Host of the Forsaken Path to represent them "rediscovering" the true way of Chaos. Also while I was typing, I was thinking that Hammer of Daemons could also be used in that it shows there are multiple ways to interpret the same being as you see different aspects of Khornate Warriors from knightly warriors to shadowy assassins to structured armies to berserker hordes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259509-heretical-word-bearers/#findComment-3163639 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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