Stormraven rules question

[IK Viper]

It is my understanding that the SR can either Zoom or Hover onto the board but the contents cannot assault the turn it arrives... so basically you have to wait till turn 3 at best to get your payload into combat.

 

I just got a SR last thursday and have only played 2 games with it but it seams a bit restrictive in this regard, if you fail a reserve roll your guys arent even in the fight till turn 4 :-(

 

am I playing this correctly, also if you Jink while Zooming I think you can go to Hover next turn and fire as normal, is this correct?

 

I play alot of 1500 b/c thats what the local tournaments are, so at 1500 I don't think its worth 200 points unless your touting a dreadnought too, otherwise thats alot of points to get one hamer unit into assault. Thoughts on this observation?

 

BTW so glad I play BA, we are not concidered a "power codex" but I love how our flexabilty and speed can really change the battlefield and allow us to be strong at the point of attack and then shift away only to come crashing down again on the enemies weak points (love beating Paladins, proving that thier walking wall is cool but Draigo aint ^_^ if he cant catch my guys and I gut his support units)

[Chaplain Admetus]

You are using them correctly, yes - assault vehicle means that you bypass the "cannot assault if you disembarked this turn" rule, but not the "cannot assault on the turn you come on from reserves" rule.

 

I also think if you jink the flier, you're reduced to snap shots next turn regardless of whether you switch to hover mode. Evade (which is what gives Jink to fliers) is on p 81, relevant part of the rule:

"...you can choose to Evade until the end of your next turn. An evading Flyer has the Jink special rule, but only fires snap shots." - It may be -treated- as a fast skimmer whilst hovering, but its still a flyer, and I'd assume that the evade part is still in effect. Someone can feel free to slap me down on this one if I'm off base though.

 

My personal belief (heavily tempered by the fact that I've never used a raven, so I might be way off on this regard) is that its possibly better to use them as a gunboat rather than have something in them from the start - I won a game where my opponent had 50% of his army's points tied up in a Raven (was full of Draigo, Paladins, there might have been a dreadnought in there too, can't remember); took two turns to take care of his ground forces, and then auto-won when the Storm Raven failed to turn up. Its the problems you mentioned (not getting to the fight til turn 3 minimum, possibly later) as well as the hideous expense pointswise that's preventing me from fielding one at 1500.

[JamesI]

Personally, with 6th edition, I don't see a lot of point in running units in Ravens. Every time I want to put a unit in it with the idea of using Skies of Blood, I just decide to reserve them on their own rather than in the raven.

 

The only units I would consider putting in a raven are pretty much Dreads, DC or Terminators right now. And even then, I would probably prefer a Land Raider or drop pod.

[DominicJ]

I can only agree, run them naked, or with a light load.

[Ushtarador]

Since you always want to run DC now, I would almost alwys at least run a raven with DC dread inside. Another alternative is to load it with assault termies, but I wouldn't pack it with a deathstar and a dread anymore, as that's too expensive and sometimes doesn't turn up until too late. With hurricane bolters, the raven now really packs a punch though, it is the strongest flyer by far against all targets.

[Dallas Drake]

Transporting a Dread is enough. Terminators are good too since they get a 3+ against the S10 if shot down Zooming.

 

- Dallas

[Chaplain Admetus]

We've got a very slight edge over Grey Knights with regards to transport - Skies of Blood takes place in the movement phase, whereas Shadow Skies is only when it moves flat out. Means we can still bail out of a flyer that's been velocity locked, where the Grey Knights can't. I'm waiting for the game where Draigo, a tooled up unit of Paladins, and a Dreadnought are stuck in a locked Stormraven, zooming about the battlefield banging on the hatches screaming "let us out!" ^_^

[IK Viper]

I have considered using the SR as a personnal transport for The Lord of Death or the Sanginor, since they both will only take 1 wound from falling out of the sky at most, the risk is a bit mitigated and you are certain to get a 36 inch move before even interceptor weapons get to you...

[shaun03]

I run duel ravens at 1850 one carrys my LC term and Libby the other carries th/Ss and corbo.

 

But I deep strike them usually using my scout with LB. most of the time it goes off with out a issue. And they tend to land right were I need them, firing 4 weapon systems, than next tun term get out and put in work.

 

I see your point about being late game arrivals, but getting tabled isn't something that has happen to me...yet

 

Overal sr are usefull would I swap one of for ds land raider yeah I have done that when I know my opt doesn't have flyers.

[avm_68]

Not sure what the reception will be to this suggestion but I had huge successes with guard detachment of allies which was troop heavy and had a Astropath to give reserves a +1 meaning your bound to get any SRs in on turn two.

[DominicJ]

Shaun

Its not just getting tabled, although that is a threat.

 

If half of your army doesnt show up till turn four, you might get one, maybe two, combats out of your guys.

 

Thats not much to clear the enemy off objectives, and your objective holders will be getting pasted, without support, for quite a while

[mcginn]

This may be crazy to some, but so far its been really effective for me, what I transport in my SR is...nothing. I run two of them in the games I've played so far and use them only for intercept role, after they've cleared the enemy fliers they move to striking at targets of opportunity on the ground. It's been really effective, they take out threats to my army then force the enemy to pour fire into them needing 6s to hit. I'm just not sure they need to carry things, though, I must admit I skies of blood dreadnoughts in from time to time to great effect. A great idea that frustrates my opponents to no end and cause them to pour even more hate on the SRs, taking it away from other elements, is that you can evade in the previous turn, then fire one of your weapons on a trivial target and PotMS at another with full BS. At least this is how every opponent I've played has decided to interpret the rule. If there is a counter to that, do enlighten me.

[John_f]

I usually run my SR with a single Furioso. Even if the SR gets blown up the Furioso will most likely survive the S 10 hit, especially since this is not AP1 or 2. And then the Furioso will be in a great position to charge on the next turn.

[IK Viper]

Ok so I never considered the deep striking option with my SR and now I am sort of thinking about the implications of doing this in my games.

 

If I DS a SR the contents can disembark 6 inches way from the base and shoot that turn too right? so what I could do is use it as a "double drop pod" delivering a squad and a dreadnought and allowing them to fire the turn they arive, only an interceptor shot would have a chance to shoot down the Raven before it gets its cargo onto the board. and then I get a flyer gunship basically...

[Chaplain Admetus]

Not sure what the reception will be to this suggestion but I had huge successes with guard detachment of allies which was troop heavy and had a Astropath to give reserves a +1 meaning your bound to get any SRs in on turn two.

 

Is this legal? I only ask because a lot of these things are codex specific, or at least have become so with the FAQs, and the Astropath's ability might not transfer to allied detachments. I genuinely don't know whether its legit or not, if it is then it adds a HUGE boost to DoA armies. Cheap guard stuff to bulk up the number of units, allowing the entire BA contingent to deep strike, and thanks to the astropath and Descent of Angels you turn up on a 2+ with a re-roll.

 

@IK Viper - I believe you count as having moved at cruising speed, so greater than 6", which would mean that you cannot disembark the turn you arrive from Deep Strike.

 

The rule with Interceptor is that it gets the shot at the end of your movement phase, so the Raven/Pod/Assault Squad or whatever you choose to deep strike will always hit the board before the shot gets taken, so if I'm wrong about not being able to disembark when you land then you can bail out before it gets shot down.

[Brynjolf Irontooth]

Nex to this, a droppods stops scattering when landing on top of units and impassable terrain. A deepstriking SR not. I see this as a major disadvantage as well (versus the droppod).

[IK Viper]

I would only DS a SR if I had a Locator Beacon pod on the table already...

[Brynjolf Irontooth]

Though that sounds like a solution, once your opponent (smart as opponents are ^_^ ) knows that your SR is in deepstrike and he spots that droppod with locator beacon landing in turn 1, it may only take him to destroy the droppod to B) your plan.

 

Our opinions might differ, but I don't think that's a very solid plan.

[Adorondak]

Though that sounds like a solution, once your opponent (smart as opponents are :) ) knows that your SR is in deepstrike and he spots that droppod with locator beacon landing in turn 1, it may only take him to destroy the droppod to :D your plan.

 

Our opinions might differ, but I don't think that's a very solid plan.

 

 

A unit of scouts with a locator beacon will probably survive longer then a drop pod in this situation, and the precise shot on sniper rifles makes them better then they were.

[avm_68]

Not sure what the reception will be to this suggestion but I had huge successes with guard detachment of allies which was troop heavy and had a Astropath to give reserves a +1 meaning your bound to get any SRs in on turn two.

 

Is this legal? I only ask because a lot of these things are codex specific, or at least have become so with the FAQs, and the Astropath's ability might not transfer to allied detachments. I genuinely don't know whether its legit or not, if it is then it adds a HUGE boost to DoA armies. Cheap guard stuff to bulk up the number of units, allowing the entire BA contingent to deep strike, and thanks to the astropath and Descent of Angels you turn up on a 2+ with a re-roll.

 

 

Yup - the guard entry reads - Whilst th Astropath is alive, you add 1 to any of your reserve rolls.

 

Superb link up with the BAs!!!

[IK Viper]

@IK Viper - I believe you count as having moved at cruising speed, so greater than 6", which would mean that you cannot disembark the turn you arrive from Deep Strike.

 

I see your point about moving at cruising speed and agreed with you until someone pointed out to me that a Drop Pod counts as moving at cruising speed as well but people disembark 6'' out of it the turn it arrives and its not even an assault vehicle.

[Morollan]

@IK Viper - I believe you count as having moved at cruising speed, so greater than 6", which would mean that you cannot disembark the turn you arrive from Deep Strike.

 

I see your point about moving at cruising speed and agreed with you until someone pointed out to me that a Drop Pod counts as moving at cruising speed as well but people disembark 6'' out of it the turn it arrives and its not even an assault vehicle.

 

Drop Pod rules say "passengers must immediately disembark as normal". Obviously this creates a few issues as we're told to disembark immediately but to do so "as normal". In 5th, passengers could disembark from vehicles moving at cruising speed but in 6th they cannot. So what is "as normal" and does it supercede the instruction to disembark immediately?

 

Chalk another one up for GW not thinking their rules through properly!

[Brynjolf Irontooth]

@IK Viper - I believe you count as having moved at cruising speed, so greater than 6", which would mean that you cannot disembark the turn you arrive from Deep Strike.

 

I see your point about moving at cruising speed and agreed with you until someone pointed out to me that a Drop Pod counts as moving at cruising speed as well but people disembark 6'' out of it the turn it arrives and its not even an assault vehicle.

 

Drop Pod rules say "passengers must immediately disembark as normal". Obviously this creates a few issues as we're told to disembark immediately but to do so "as normal". In 5th, passengers could disembark from vehicles moving at cruising speed but in 6th they cannot. So what is "as normal" and does it supercede the instruction to disembark immediately?

 

Chalk another one up for GW not thinking their rules through properly!

 

I have to disagree. Codex > BRB when a conflict of rules meet. So yes the addition 'immediately' supercedes the normal aspect of not being able when the vehicle moved more than 6". (BRB p 7)

 

I don't get it why people always have to try putting GW in a bad spotlight and are proud when they can. Considering all the rules out there (BRB + all codices) there are actually only a few real unanswered questions/ gaps. Most questions have answers, at least should people not always try to read/bend the rules in a way that clearly isn't written that way. Just for clarity, I'm not blaming you Morollan as a person, but rather the internet hype of the latest years (probably since the release of TLOTR) of bashing GW that's so easy. It's only a game, and it should be fun (including on the internet). :tu:

 

Greets,

BI

[Morollan]

I have to disagree. Codex > BRB when a conflict of rules meet. So yes the addition 'immediately' supercedes the normal aspect of not being able when the vehicle moved more than 6". (BRB p 7)

 

Except the conflict is created within the codex itself rather than between the codex and the rulebook. The codex tells us to "immediately disembark", which is fine, but it also tells us to do so "as normal". which is not fine. The codex itself is telling us to do two different things which cannot both be possible absent a FAQ.

 

I don't get it why people always have to try putting GW in a bad spotlight and are proud when they can. Considering all the rules out there (BRB + all codices) there are actually only a few real unanswered questions/ gaps. Most questions have answers, at least should people not always try to read/bend the rules in a way that clearly isn't written that way. Just for clarity, I'm not blaming you Morollan as a person, but rather the internet hype of the latest years (probably since the release of TLOTR) of bashing GW that's so easy. It's only a game, and it should be fun (including on the internet).

 

In most cases I would agree that this is true and that the intent of the rules is pretty obvious, even when the rules themselves are not. In this case I'm not so sure. 6th edition specifically changed the rules for disembarking from vehicles. You cannot volunarily disembark from a vehicle that is moving at cruising speed anymore. I wish we could!! If the drop pod is intended to overrule that restriction then it specifically needs to say so and a FAQ is required.

[Brynjolf Irontooth]

Well put is this way.

 

Let us remove the word 'immediately' for a second: "..., all passengers must disembark as normal." In this case you would ofcourse be right. Normal (looking at the BRB) says you can't when the vehicle moved more than 6". So you'll have to wait a turn before being able to disembark.

 

But as the codex adds the word 'immediately', it adds 'immediately' to this normal disembarkment rules of troops. So it clearly adds something that contradicts with the normal disembarkation rules of the BRB. But as codex supercedes BRB no issue occurs. You have to do it immediately on landing. So I think it's quite clear, you land and immediately have to disembark otherwise following the normal disembarkation rules.

 

Saying otherwise seems to me you're denying the word immediately is there, as an addition to referring to normal disembarkation.

 

It'ls like a master-crafted power weapon. The addition of master-crafted gives you the chance of rerolling one dice to hit. Which ofcourse contradicts with the fact a power weapon doesn't standard comes with a reroll. But nonetheless it's quite clear you do get the reroll. Maybe a bad example, maybe not. :tu:

 

But maybe we should agree to disagree. :tu:

 

 

Greets,

BI