Veterans

[gogsmash]

Recently I decided to add these guys: http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/...otCatGameStyle=

to my Ultramarines army, since I am fairly lacking in hard-hitting CC units. I know these models are a bit outdated - there are dedicated vanguard veteran models - but I like the look of these, plus jump packs are far too expensive and help them get shot to pieces. Furthermore, I'm not sure where to put them - in a drop pod for a lighting strike (although I don't actually have one), in a Rhino (all of which are filled up with tacticals) or just footslog and cling to cover?

They have such a wide variety of weapons and they would probably be overlooked due to my assault termies - possibly the perfect character killers. The chainswords seems pretty useless so I am planning to replace them with power swords/mauls/axes. Any ideas about tactics for these guys? (I fight a lot of Necrons)

[DarkGuard]

I know thade uses a unit of them with his Blood Angels, sticking them in a Land Raider. A Rhino or Drop Pod isn't too great for them as they will probably get shot a bit when they disembark and have to wait to charge. The Land Raider protects them until they want to charge.

 

Of course, I feel that anything Vanguard can do Honour Guard can do better, especially with changes to weapons AP, although having a couple of storm shields could be nice.

 

I'd get in touch with thade about it, I'm not quite sure what he recommends re. power weapon types, I'd say go for a healthy mix of swords and axes IMO.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

You could always field them as an allied BA unit. Even just getting the DoA rule is a great bonus and brings using them with Jump Packs into the equation.

 

I'm not sure of whatever pricing differences/options the BA VV benefit from....

[maturin]

I used to be a big fan of Vanguard vets in 5th - I stashed them in a rhino and used them as a great little counter-assault unit. But as DarkGuard points out, that's not really viable in 6th. I think the only effective way to use them in 6th is with a Land Raider, and if I'm going to drop the points for one of those then I'll probably put TH/SS termies inside rather than the less effective VV's.

 

But if you like the models, then go for the LR. But definitely add in a couple of storm shield guys - they're worth their weight in gold.

[rpnightsend]

+1 On the storm shield suggestion.

Actually, if you run a captain, I'd suggest you use them as a Company Command Squad. Same statline, same options, but come stock with FNP, don't take up an FOC slot, and the company champion gets +1 WS and rerolls in challenges for the cost of just his power weapon.

All that for 5 points more.

The only reason I could see to not take them is if you don't have a captain in your normal list or if you want the squad to be bigger than 5. With the FNP putting these guys in a drop pod or footslogging them becomes a lot more viable too. As has been said, I'd skip the rhino, and the land Raider is too expensive for them IMO.

[Brom MKIV]

My question is if your not utilizing heroic intervention then why take vanguard at all? Its worth noting that vanguard have received a pretty decent buff due to charge range potential now equaling potential scatter and jump troops rerolling charge distance. Not quite on par with BAs vanguard but still alot better than before, maybe even worthwhile. Personally I have always liked vanguard and Ive been hit hard enough by BAs vanguard in the past to respect their potential. IMO the key is to keep them cheap and focused.