Your view on Assault Squads and a question about tactics

[Warprat]

OK, where in the heck is the information for which class of powers you can take for each type of army? I saw it once, now I can't find it again, LOL.

 

Page number? Thanks!

[Captain Juan Juarez]

Here's a thought that I don't recall seeing discussed and have been thinking about lately.

 

Rhino-borne Assault Squads.

 

Opinions?

[Koremu]

Here's a thought that I don't recall seeing discussed and have been thinking about lately.

 

Rhino-borne Assault Squads.

 

Opinions?

In 5th they were ok, because you could bunker in the Rhino, get out (without the Rhino moving) and Assault.

 

In 6th you can't do that, so it's a bit rubbish. You're better off using Jump Packers and hiding them behind other Rhino-chassis vehicles.

 

Or Bikers.

[Muctar]

Here's a thought that I don't recall seeing discussed and have been thinking about lately.

 

Rhino-borne Assault Squads.

 

Opinions?

With the changes to assaulting out of vehicles I think the rhino based assault squads are going to be much less useful. Most people take assault squads for their mobility and assault capability. Rhinos give them their mobility while taking away their assault capability. If you want to charge with them, they are no longer any more survivable than with jump packs since they need to disembark the turn before they launch an assault. Which means they still have to suffer a round of shooting and possibly being assaulted before they have the chance to get stuck in. Also, even though it may not make much difference, it's worth mentioning that rhino squads miss out on possible hammer of wrath attacks which help with what they are intended for: assault.

 

There seems to be too many drawbacks to take assault squads in rhinos. It doesn't seem worthwhile.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

OK, where in the heck is the information for which class of powers you can take for each type of army? I saw it once, now I can't find it again, LOL.

 

Page number? Thanks!

 

It's in each Codex's FAQ. C:SM can take Biomancy, Pyromancy, Telekinesis, and Telepathy.

[nusphigor]

OK, where in the heck is the information for which class of powers you can take for each type of army? I saw it once, now I can't find it again, LOL.

 

Page number? Thanks!

 

It's in each Codex's FAQ. C:SM can take Biomancy, Pyromancy, Telekinesis, and Telepathy.

 

I was about to say that :)

 

 

How about a plasma pistol gunslinger vanguard squad on a lasplas razorback?

300+ pts of total plasma awesomeness!!!! :D

 

 

I kinda like the idea of assault squads on rhinos but only if you're playing with 4 tactical squads on rhinos and a couple of predators to support them. The sight of 8 rhino chassis on the table is just great :)

[Iron Father Ferrum]

I was about to say that :P

 

 

How about a plasma pistol gunslinger vanguard squad on a lasplas razorback?

300+ pts of total plasma awesomeness!!!! ;)

 

That is. . . not a good idea. A single plasma pistol is one of the most expensive options any infantry model can take, and you want to take two of them on a single wound model with a 3+ save? You're trying to turn an assault unit into a shooting unit. If you want plasma that bad, take Sternguard with combi-plasmas. It's cheaper, has a longer range, is less like to explode in your face, and you won't lose as many points to a single well-placed blast weapon.

[himkano]

I play BA, but if played C:SM, I think I would take a full assault squad, and then combat squad it. I haven't tested it, because I don't have combat tactics, but I am thinking take a cheap squad (or half squad) and assault something moving in your tacticals. The plan is to hold up the squad for a turn, then lose combat on their turn, and choose to fail. Then they will fall back, and leave your taticals another turn to shoot at their incoming assault unit. I don't know if half a squad can hold up any real assault unit, so you might have to tool it up some (but not so much that you always win combat, because the plan is fall back and give your shooters another shot).

 

Then assault them again, so they can't assault

[DarkGuard]

If you combat squad an Assault squad though, only one will have the most valued upgrade they can get, the power weapon/fist. It'd be better to spend more points and go for two, probably with power axes and a flamer.

[Warprat]

The only reason I can think to take a non-jump pack squad is for the cheap transport. A sarge and 4 dudes are not too shabby, in that case. But don't buy them any upgrades, or they become expensive. At least compared to a tactical squad...

 

If you add them into a fight, it might be worth it. Have them use thier Rhino for screening, and walk behind. Or, drop pod onto a far objective to contest it. Land next to a thunderfire or dreadnought to take it out, etc.

 

Not really great options... almost worth it, but not quite. Too bad the flamer is an upgrade and doesn't come for free, might make the difference.

[himkano]

If you combat squad an Assault squad though, only one will have the most valued upgrade they can get, the power weapon/fist. It'd be better to spend more points and go for two, probably with power axes and a flamer.

 

Except in my example, I am trying to lose the combat - using combat tactics like a cheap "hit and run" so I can tie up the enemy on their turn, shoot them on my turn, and then tie them up again.

 

Like I said, not sure that it will work, because I haven't used combat tactics in a long time.

[DarkGuard]

I think that when building an Assault unit you want to lose combat, you probably should be taking something else. Just my view.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

I think that when building an Assault unit you want to lose combat, you probably should be taking something else. Just my view.

 

Uhh....yeah. This. If you want to employ Combat Tactics, just take the charge with your Tactical Squad and CT out of combat with them. After all, they're called "Assault" Marines. Not "Speed Bump" Marines.

[Warprat]

If you combat squad an Assault squad though, only one will have the most valued upgrade they can get, the power weapon/fist. It'd be better to spend more points and go for two, probably with power axes and a flamer.

 

Except in my example, I am trying to lose the combat - using combat tactics like a cheap "hit and run" so I can tie up the enemy on their turn, shoot them on my turn, and then tie them up again.

 

Like I said, not sure that it will work, because I haven't used combat tactics in a long time.

 

Actually, with dual flamers, this is not so terrible an idea. If they survive, they can do some nice damage, and you can re-charge for more attacks. I do this with my tactical squads. Except I only get a flamer and combi-flamer AND I usually rapid fire. There are plenty of times I wished I had 3 attacks for a decent charge, LOL!

[Kua]

Above nusphigor had the Idea of some kind of Vanguard of plasma gunslingers which was considered expensive and inferior to sternguard with combis. IIRC Idaho tried Vanguard on foot (in a transporter) with several plasma pistols.

But how is the public opinion on a simple (jumping) assault squad with 4 plasma pistols (gunslinger Sgt. and 2 special weapons)? 250 Pts for a full jump-packed unit. Depending on it’s survivability one could consider splitting 5 marines without any special equipment from the unit and using for counterattacks or, if BA, for holding objectives. Unlike veterans here the models are quite cheap and with ablative wounds, who are a valid (I hope) support in CC.

Would something like this work or do 4 plasma shots on 12" impress nobody while the missing PW on the Sgt. hurt much more than the pistols help?

[DarkGuard]

I'll put another question forward. 250pts for 4 plasma pistol shots? Or 250pts for 16 power sword/axe attacks? I know what I'd prefer.

[Kua]

You are speaking of 5 jumping Vanguard marines?

Don’t forget about the 21 (non-energy) attacks. On charge (very probable with jump packs) 10 more instead of 5. Also double the amount of wounds with no expensive and important attacks dying on every unsaved one.

In addition they can be scoring if taken as BA allies.

But of course, the vanguard alternative also has 5 boltpistol shots we should not forget. :P

(Heroic intervention could make a difference in an army with several beacons.)

 

Honestly, I don’t see the choice as that obvious. But I also have no experience with either of the units.

[DarkGuard]

Yeah, I was thinking Vanguard, got confused there, of course you meant Assault squads. :P

[Kua]

Ah, ok. ^^

So, what is your opinion on it?

 

(On vanguard I’d use single lightning claws instead of p-swords if you don’t take the AP2 axes anyway. On targets with T4 the claws are always better, on T3 only on charge.)

[DarkGuard]

I agree with the Vanguard point.

 

On the Marines, I'd only run pistols in a 5 man unit, taking 3, otherwise you're spending too many points. For 250pts I can have a combi-plasma, plasma gun and plasma cannon in a Rhino on a scoring unit. A little more and that Rhino is a las/plas Razorback.

 

At 250pts, I'd keep it 3 pistols, but take a power axe on the Sergeant to help with their role. Same points cost as well.

[Kua]

Aren’t you afraid of challenges with an expensive but soft Sgt with I1?

With double pistols he just could deny against enemies with armour penetrating weapons and you don’t lose much, just a couple of S4 attacks.

Another option is 4 pistols (or 3 and PW) and combat squading the unit into one half with everything and one without. But then, how does one use the half without?

[DarkGuard]

It is a consideration, so maybe the power sword. Plasma pistols gives you AP2 anyway. Remember, your normal combat attacks are only AP-, that's not impressive against Marines. That's why the Sergeant needs a power weapon, to give them a bit of combat clout. In a small squad though, I can see why twin plasma pistols and one plasma pistol could do well. It's not too expensive, does a decent role to the army and would be awful in assault anyway.