The Long Wait...

[*Furyou Miko]

It's the eyepatch, Vesper deary.

[Iron Sage]

*chuckles once again, this time with more humour*

 

Oh, well, that was amusing ;)

[incinerator950]

Lol Jeske

 

Anyway, there are too many posts to quote to say I agree with. So, I like the sculpts, I don't think they're good for any of the armies I envision, maybe besides a Beasts of Annihilation or Possessive Word Bearers force. That said, I want the Lord's helmet for my future HQ.

[Vesper]

@Smurfalypse

At least now everyone knows that you secretly love the Jeske.

 

Mission accomplished.

[Smurfalypse]

@Smurfalypse

At least now everyone know that you secretly love the Jeske.

 

Mission accomplished.

 

 

/wrists!

[Iron Sage]

hehe, I suspect my questions regarding what you guys think concerning the utillity and use of chosen and if you think the Hellbrute will be molded in one piece or not, kind of got lost in the Saga of jeske, lol!

 

On to the topic (mostly because I think someone should try and stear it towards its original intention ;), I cant wait untill I get that Dark Vengeance box in the mail...

I so look forward to charging Mathias poor guardsmen with a rampaging hellbrute, and to finally being able to utilize my beloved Lord Brumle, the bloodthirster which I spent ages finishing but untill 6th ed have only used as a common khornate winged DP :/

 

Regarding daemonic troops (since I obviously have to have a troop choice if I am to use daemonic allies) , do you guys reckon I should go with plaguebearers or daemonettes (my two options as I have the models painted) against an infantry heavy guard list? Never ever tried daemonic deep striking before, so I am wary that those sexy lithe things will find themselves shot to little cute ribbons against guard gunlines (he tends to play some sort of static gunline, forcing me to assault which is ok most of the time, but daemonettes are a tad fragile (though sexy models, so I would like using them).

 

Any thought on that? A daemonic troop choice to be used specifically against Imp Guard (majority of the time I find myself playing against, sadly, only Imp Guard. Rural Norway can be sad like that...) ?

[Brother Hadafix]

You guys had me worried for a while with that Jeske thing... He's been here a while, it would be like Greymage going awol.

 

I guess being one that likes the whole cult thing, I quite like things like the Hellbrute and the rest could look nice in Flawless Host colours, or something very similar.

 

Will be waiting for the codex before I invest anything, as I haven't forgiven GW yet for the 4Ed codex.

 

COME ON GW, HURRY THINGS UP!

 

*Wonders off looking for puppies to drown*

[incinerator950]

Yeah, if anything I'll be banned before Jeske.

[Biaz]

What? WHAT?! How can you people say our Chaos Marines are too chaos-y?!

 

I see this all the time "My legion hates chaos and just uses them as a tool" or "My Alpha Legion are less corrupt then your Night Lords." They live in a virtual Hell, in the realm of the Gods themselves! Of course they're going to be mutated, twisted and undeniably badass. This is Codex: Chaos Space Marines, not Codex: Renegades Who Drift Through Space in an Asteroid Field.

 

Thats why I think our current codex and it's models are awful. Most of them are merely jagged, spiky Loyalists with no evidence of the corruption, mutation and benefits consorting with Daemons brings.

 

I bet Warriors of Chaos don't have to deal with this... :P

[*Furyou Miko]

No, they pretty much do.

 

You'd be surprised as the number of people I see whining they can't do northman armies.

[Brother Ambroz]

What? WHAT?! How can you people say our Chaos Marines are too chaos-y?!

 

I see this all the time "My legion hates chaos and just uses them as a tool" or "My Alpha Legion are less corrupt then your Night Lords." They live in a virtual Hell, in the realm of the Gods themselves! Of course they're going to be mutated, twisted and undeniably badass. This is Codex: Chaos Space Marines, not Codex: Renegades Who Drift Through Space in an Asteroid Field.

 

Thats why I think our current codex and it's models are awful. Most of them are merely jagged, spiky Loyalists with no evidence of the corruption, mutation and benefits consorting with Daemons brings.

 

I bet Warriors of Chaos don't have to deal with this... :P

 

Yes their armor will be warped and a few may have mutations, but look at the fluff or the BL books. How many of them (even the word bearers) have mutations or bones jutting out of their armor? Most of the warbands consider mutations to be gifts.

[Warsmith Aznable]

I get where the "but these are chaos marines" people are coming from, but not everybody who wants to be a bad guy wants to do it in the same way. It's a big galaxy, we've got 10,000 Terran standard years to play with, not everybody lives in the Eye of Terror, and even though all our varied paths lead to eventual damnation and slavery to the Chaos Gods, the paths are varied.

[Iron Sage]

What? WHAT?! How can you people say our Chaos Marines are too chaos-y?!

 

I see this all the time "My legion hates chaos and just uses them as a tool" or "My Alpha Legion are less corrupt then your Night Lords." They live in a virtual Hell, in the realm of the Gods themselves! Of course they're going to be mutated, twisted and undeniably badass. This is Codex: Chaos Space Marines, not Codex: Renegades Who Drift Through Space in an Asteroid Field.

 

Thats why I think our current codex and it's models are awful. Most of them are merely jagged, spiky Loyalists with no evidence of the corruption, mutation and benefits consorting with Daemons brings.

 

I bet Warriors of Chaos don't have to deal with this... :P

 

As far as I remember the fluff, astartes flesh and organs are not so mallable to the gifts the great lord Tzeentch gifts upon the rest of mankind, though with time and exposure, they too can/will suffer the effects of the warp.

 

In reality every legion suffers from the touch of the warp, but you are mistaken if you think this is necesarilly physical. For some it is, and especially for those revelling in the gifts (and even worship) of the gods and the denziens of the warp, but for other legions like the Nightlords and for instance the iron warriors, the touch of the warp is often....different.

 

Think Dark Elves in fantasy. Those are cruel and easilly as "evil" and murderous as your average "chaos" warband/tribe. But their corruption shows in different ways. The legions are all consumed by hate, so intense that (according to the fluff) it can easilly be viewed as a mental corruption. Very easilly.

Also, while the mortal followers of the legion astartes (type traitor) will very often suffer from mutations, sometimes fearing them, at other times revelling in them, how often, really, have YOU seen that in the actual fluff?

The so called Chaos renegades and legions are far, farmore diverse than you appear to think, and worship of the Gods, and seeking the "gifts" of mutations are somethingwhich is common only in a FEW legions. In most others, mutations while accepted as a reality they have to live with, is viewed with scorn. Much like how the "non-sorcerer crazy" legions would view, say, a scheeming sorcerer. I.e. clearly touched by other and maybe greater powers, and therefore not to be trusted etc.

 

But yes, something other than marines with spikes is of course nice, but you seem to have forgotten or ignored your 40k fluff/lore in this matter at least.

Really, as I said, the chosen models look stunning!! But there are different ways of making the legions (and renegades unique) than merely having Tzeentch play with them for a bit...

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

What? WHAT?! How can you people say our Chaos Marines are too chaos-y?!

 

I see this all the time "My legion hates chaos and just uses them as a tool" or "My Alpha Legion are less corrupt then your Night Lords." They live in a virtual Hell, in the realm of the Gods themselves! Of course they're going to be mutated, twisted and undeniably badass. This is Codex: Chaos Space Marines, not Codex: Renegades Who Drift Through Space in an Asteroid Field.

 

Thats why I think our current codex and it's models are awful. Most of them are merely jagged, spiky Loyalists with no evidence of the corruption, mutation and benefits consorting with Daemons brings.

 

I bet Warriors of Chaos don't have to deal with this... :P

I have to say I agree with this. Chaos is awesome. Chaos is amazing. And yet so many people go 'Ewey Chaos my renegades sooooo don't like that" :(

 

These are the gods who put down the Emperor, my friends. The galaxy is ripe for corruption. Every soul has a blemish for Chaos to breathe through. Every human in the Imperium suffers under or controls the mindless government, and worships a being who would destroy them for it, if only he could. The xenos are all fodder and wars to amuse the Dark Gods. Only the true servants of Chaos will live longer than a few hundred years, and only they would want to, for they are holy and blessed with matchless strength, sorcerory of untold power and the backings of the most powerful beings to have ever existed. Those who deny both the corpse-Emperor and the true rulers of the galaxy only buy themselves time. For what can they hope for? Survival? Survival for what? Do they somehow hope that they will think they will outlast the Imperium? Do they think they will escape the reach of Chaos? No, they will not. There is only an eternity of war among the stars and the laughter of thirsting gods. Only Chaos provides a life worth living. Only the Dark Gods provide the truth.

 

So flee if you will, deluded brothers. Perhaps you'll escape being sacrificed for a little while. Or perhaps it won't take very long at all. Either way, your souls are ours, and it's only a matter of time before we claim them. Until that day, I hope you enjoy watching yourselves be killed, one, by one, by one, by one, by one...

 

 

 

 

;)

[*Furyou Miko]

The Davey Jones avatar really makes that post. :P

[Iron Sage]

What? WHAT?! How can you people say our Chaos Marines are too chaos-y?!

 

I see this all the time "My legion hates chaos and just uses them as a tool" or "My Alpha Legion are less corrupt then your Night Lords." They live in a virtual Hell, in the realm of the Gods themselves! Of course they're going to be mutated, twisted and undeniably badass. This is Codex: Chaos Space Marines, not Codex: Renegades Who Drift Through Space in an Asteroid Field.

 

Thats why I think our current codex and it's models are awful. Most of them are merely jagged, spiky Loyalists with no evidence of the corruption, mutation and benefits consorting with Daemons brings.

 

I bet Warriors of Chaos don't have to deal with this... :P

I have to say I agree with this. Chaos is awesome. Chaos is amazing. And yet so many people go 'Ewey Chaos my renegades sooooo don't like that" <_<

 

These are the gods who put down the Emperor, my friends. The galaxy is ripe for corruption. Every soul has a blemish for Chaos to breathe through. Every human in the Imperium suffers under or controls the mindless government, and worships a being who would destroy them for it, if only he could. The xenos are all fodder and wars to amuse the Dark Gods. Only the true servants of Chaos will live longer than a few hundred years, and only they would want to, for they are holy and blessed with matchless strength, sorcerory of untold power and the backings of the most powerful beings to have ever existed. Those who deny both the corpse-Emperor and the true rulers of the galaxy only buy themselves time. For what can they hope for? Survival? Survival for what? Do they somehow hope that they will think they will outlast the Imperium? Do they think they will escape the reach of Chaos? No, they will not. There is only an eternity of war among the stars and the laughter of thirsting gods. Only Chaos provides a life worth living. Only the Dark Gods provide the truth.

 

So flee if you will, deluded brothers. Perhaps you'll escape being sacrificed for a little while. Or perhaps it won't take very long at all. Either way, your souls are ours, and it's only a matter of time before we claim them. Until that day, I hope you enjoy watching yourselves be killed, one, by one, by one, by one, by one...

 

 

 

 

:devil:

 

Lol, nice one (your excellent rant) :P

 

Its also most likely the least "objective" rant ever, lol. You know it requires very little sophistery to argue your findings ;) Those who do not worship chaos in its forms and shapes would likely claim that those who do are nothing but mere mindless slaves with next to no will of their own you know :P

 

Seriously though. Chaos and its adherants, are diverse. A company of Iron warriors might have no physical mutations what so ever (their minds however....) while the sons of Lorgar would likely have many.

That was also my original point. That mutated Chosen while awesome models to look at (and yeah, I am going to field a couple as champions or lords myself), does not necessarily fit every legion, or even the majority of them

[Vesper]

I agree, of course. See the Dark Angels, well known traitors to the Imperium. They look clean, and stuff, but in the inside, that's another matter.

 

 

It's the eyepatch, Vesper deary.

Sadly, I was so wrong I can't even figure what would be sophisticated enough to answer to that :P.

Hey, a french folklore reference will be enough : I'll remember the vase of Soissons, and I will also make you remember, in due time...

[Captain Semper]

What? WHAT?! How can you people say our Chaos Marines are too chaos-y?!

 

Well, they are... question is, is this a good or a bad thing?

 

I see this all the time "My legion hates chaos and just uses them as a tool" or "My Alpha Legion are less corrupt then your Night Lords." They live in a virtual Hell, in the realm of the Gods themselves! Of course they're going to be mutated, twisted and undeniably badass. This is Codex: Chaos Space Marines, not Codex: Renegades Who Drift Through Space in an Asteroid Field.

 

Well I guess another way to see it is whether Chaos Marines define themselves as outright warped Chaos worshipers or predominantly anti-Imperium with Chaos being the only other viable option open to them... Don't get me wrong, I'm not a big fan of the myriad independent warbands that the current Codex is portraying as the norm for Chaos. I really liked the older approach, where Chaos Marines were first and foremost the Traitor Legions. So which Legion would you say the current models fit in or stem from?

 

If anything these models back up the perception that Chaos Marines are predominantly warbands of no past - a standalone group of warriors that have no allegience (other than Chaos). They look damn good, but their usuability in a Legion themed Chaos Marine army is limited in my view.

 

Thats why I think our current codex and it's models are awful. Most of them are merely jagged, spiky Loyalists with no evidence of the corruption, mutation and benefits consorting with Daemons brings.

 

I wouldn't say awful but yeah, I get what you're saying. And I agree. But Legion Chaos Marines should also look Legion as well as Chaos. These models look only the latter...

 

I'd love it if they were to make an Iron Warriors warband for example. You know, models that are instantly recognizeable as veterans of the 10k war. With older armour marks, mixed armoured marks, trophies and Legion markings. Over the top vicious looking weapons would also help. You know, looking at the mini and just say, "yes, this is a Long War veteran alright". The existing models look warped, but there is no evidence, just by looking at them, of their ancient acsenstry. For all I know there could be a splinter of a loyal Chapter that was lost in the warp 100 years ago and underwent a transformation in the Eye, passing the tests of the Gods earning their distinct looks...

 

I bet Warriors of Chaos don't have to deal with this... ;)

 

Warriors of Chaos (I assume you refer to WHFB) do not share the same background as 40k. These are predominantly and foremost warbands stemming from various nomadic tribes - so they are by definition disjointed warbands of no other allegiance than Chaos. In 40k, Chaos Marines have already an allegiance to their Legion - that's their origin. If you collect and play Legion marines that is... Otherwise it's the warband theme and yes, there is nothing to dislike from the new minis! Again let me stress that the sculpts themselves look superb, and they are definately a welcome challenge to paint - if only for dispaly purposes.

 

I have to say I agree with this. Chaos is awesome. Chaos is amazing. And yet so many people go 'Ewey Chaos my renegades sooooo don't like that" :)

 

These are the gods who put down the Emperor, my friends. The galaxy is ripe for corruption. Every soul has a blemish for Chaos to breathe through. Every human in the Imperium suffers under or controls the mindless government, and worships a being who would destroy them for it, if only he could. The xenos are all fodder and wars to amuse the Dark Gods. Only the true servants of Chaos will live longer than a few hundred years, and only they would want to, for they are holy and blessed with matchless strength, sorcerory of untold power and the backings of the most powerful beings to have ever existed. Those who deny both the corpse-Emperor and the true rulers of the galaxy only buy themselves time. For what can they hope for? Survival? Survival for what? Do they somehow hope that they will think they will outlast the Imperium? Do they think they will escape the reach of Chaos? No, they will not. There is only an eternity of war among the stars and the laughter of thirsting gods. Only Chaos provides a life worth living. Only the Dark Gods provide the truth.

 

Maybe I'm waaay too influenced by ADB's portrayal of the Night Lords... but it makes sense to me. Traitor Space Marines (even Night Lords :wacko:) started off as sane individuals that did things for a reason - even if this was not generally accepted as a good or moral reason (by 30k/40k standards). Becoming warped worshippers of the Chaos gods was one way to go... Trying to maintain a semblance of organization and military disciple was another. And as the resources of the Imperium were denied to them, their looks would be more like a mix of older types of armour, salvaged equipment and battelfield trophies (like say Talos' BA sword) rather than super ornate and warped equipment the new minis carry. Everything exists in the 40k Universe, everything can fit. But I just wish the new minis of the boxed set were more useable as Legion marines rather than a random warband with no obvious Legion allegience.

[Lepaca]

Wish they'd do the same to chaos as they did with dark eldar and just redo everything. I don't think I'll be able to look at my basic chaos marines after seeing the chaos lord and chosen from dark vengeance.

 

This is so true.

I just recently finished my new squad of Slaaneshi marines and I thought they looked amazing. Then I saw the new minis and now they simply seem bland, lacklustre and without any detail. :lol:

[Biaz]

Now before I continue, I'd just like to say that I of course respect everyone's different opinions and they have their right to their own warband background, and, of course, that every warband is different and will be affect by chaos differently, or may not reside in the Eye/any other Chaos haven. I've just seen alot of these anti Chaos posts and rarely does someone say, "Whoa whoa whoa. You did actually read the title before you bought the codex, right?"

 

I agree, you're average Joe Chaos Space Marine is not going to be warped and mutated because, as some of you said, these mutations are gifts, but the first thing I'd like to point out is the models we are referring to are Chosen. As in, Chosen of the Gods. They're not Disciples of the Gods, nor are they merely Veterans as Codex: Space Marines has. These guys have been favoured by the Gods whether or not they like it, because they are good at what they do and the gods like this, and want to make sure they keep doing it. This is why they "gift" them with their fancy mutations.

 

In the BL books many of the Chaos Marines are nobodies. In the WB trilogy there is only one "Chosen" squad mentioned, and I'm fairly sure they have some minor mutations, and I know their leader does. The possessed obviously do, but the Terminators aren't referenced as having any mutations, I'll admit. Though even Marduk notices that his armour is steadily mutating to become a part of his skin. A D-B will be the first to admit that his Night Lords aren't unstoppable champions of war. They're nobodies to whom the last 10,000 was a century in the warp, possibly with their Gellar Fields still activated. The gods aren't going to care or notice these guys, and they haven't spent enough time exposed to the warp to develop any mutations. None the less, Uzas and Cyrion still suffer from their own - albeit subtle - mutations, and whether Talos' visions are a chaotic gift or something other is I think intentionally left murky.

 

If you smoke enough cigarettes you will get cancer, whether or not you believe in the cigarette. This is the way it is. If you play in the realm of the gods, you will change. Every traitor Primarch who isn't dead is a Daemon Primarch. If they can be warped by the touch of the Daemon, what chance does your chaos marine stand? These are the guys who went to Hell, and Hell spat them back out. Literally. They will be changed by this.

 

In regards to the Warriors of Chaos thing, I'm surprised by that. Thats like saying "I want to play Norse but without the whole Thor and Odin pantheon thing." Thats their culture, thats what makes them what they are. Without that they're just bearded pirates.

 

 

None of this is meant to be a slander on your lovingly crafted backgrounds by the way. Its just been a long time since I've found a Chaos debate I can really sink my teeth into :lol:

[Captain Semper]

I do not understand the difference that we have here - if any...

 

Unless you're saying that the only way to depict Chaos marines credibly is the way they are in the boxed set, we are talking preferences here. I would like to be able to fit the boxed set Chaos Marines in a Legion themed army without looking out of place - much like the DAs will find their way in my DA army. They will stand out due to superior sculpts, but will not look out of place.

 

These are not Chaos marines that in my view will blend well in a Legion themed army - they'll be the odd ones out. They'll look fine in the Chaos Marine Warband from hell - that's a given. I just thought it'll be an opportunity to give Chaos Marines a different definition (and more depth), more in line with the fallen knight theme (I'm talking generic theme here - nothing to do with DAs or Fallen).

 

In your cigarette analogy, (I hate analogies btw - they can get out of hand easily) smoking is the common denominator for smokers much like Chaos is the common denominator for Chaos Marines. something that on some level conncets them all together. But not every smoker has the same attitude to smoking. Some smoke like there is no tomorrow not caring of the long term consequences. Some smoke heavily, some smoke lightly. Some feel guilty that they have acquired this habbit but cannot break from it so they don't even try. Others are actively trying to break it and some even succeed. Some even don't get cancer at all!! Similarly all Chaos Marines although bound by Chaos do not have the same attitude against it.

 

Besides, being anti-Imperium is enough to brand you Chaos - that doesn't mean that you have become a warped version of a standard marine - you can look archaic and impressive and veteran-y in a different way. What I'm saying is they could have gone a number of ways when they sculpted the Chaos warband (they could have excluded the cultists altogether and add a non-elite squad for example) but they went for OTT "Chaotic" marines. Maybe they opted for that given that a more subtle appearence would not have visually differentated them enough from the DAs that are in the same box. And they succeded! They made beutiful models. Just not in the direction I would have hoped personally (and appears others in this thread share the same view). Obviously for you they look just right. I look fwd to see your work with them- maybe give me some inspiration of how to credibly fit them in a Black Legion army...

 

And Talos is not your average Joe - it turns out he's the most important NL after Curze... but that's not the place to discuss it. :lol:

[Excessus]

Captain Semper, have you seen the pictures in the latest WD where they paint the chosen and lord up to match with different legion colour schemes? I suspect that they'd fit more into legion themed armies than you would think...

[Biaz]

I do not understand the difference that we have here - if any...

 

I'm not entirely sure either, but lets have a look.

 

Unless you're saying that the only way to depict Chaos marines credibly is the way they are in the boxed set, we are talking preferences here. I would like to be able to fit the boxed set Chaos Marines in a Legion themed army without looking out of place - much like the DAs will find their way in my DA army. The DAs will stand out but will not look out of place.

 

These are not Chaos marines that in my view will blend well in a Legion themed army - they'll be the odd ones out. They'll look fine in the Chaos Marine Warband from hell - that's a given. I just thought it'll be an opportunity to give Chaos Marines a different definition (and more depth), more in line with the fallen knight theme (I'm talking generic theme here - nothing to do with DAs or Fallen).

 

Alright. Compared to what we currently have besides the possessed, yes the Chosen are dramatically different to pretty much everything else. However the Chosen are an elites choice, its they're role to stand out from the rabble. Terminators stand out in an army, its partly the role of a shock troop (as far as 40k - and Space Marines in particular - are concerned) and if they do remake the Chaos line (I doubt it, but we'll throw in the consideration for now) then they will fit in any recent army anyway. Also how they fit in depends on the Legion/Warband you choose. BL, WB, NL (if you're a Acerbus believer), DG are rife with crazy mutations, even EC and WE will fit these guys easily. IW can without too much difficulty, the problem only lies with 1k Sons, who's entire background revolves around their disgust with physical change.

 

I don't see Chaos Marines as the Dark Knight. They are the scions of Hell, the Anti-Christ of 40k. Thats not to say they don't have altruistic or "greater good" views, they can. But the way they believe they can save humainty is by bring an entirely new order into power. An order of Chaos and "The strong are the strongest alone."

 

 

In your cigarette analogy, (I hate analogies btw - they can get out of hand easily) smoking is the common denominator for smokers much like Chaos is the common denominator for Chaos Marines. something that on some level conncets them all together. But not every smoker has the same attitude to smoking. Some smoke like there is no tomorrow not caring of the long term consequences. Some feel guilty that they have acquired this habbit but cannot break from it so they don't even try. Others are actively trying to break it and some even succeed. Similarly all Chaos Marines although bound by Chaos do not have the same attitude against it.

 

True, thats a brilliantly articulated point. None the less, they will be affected by it, whether they hate it or not. In terms of Chaos, they will be warped with enough exposure, or by drawing they Eye of the Gods. You might have Iron Warriors who'd rather cut off an arm then have it strengthen through the touch of Chaos, or an alpha Legion Cell far from the Eye, but this will be a niche market, a minority, and in terms of the Alpha Legion, and any non-chaos chaos marines, can be better represented using loyalist models and codexes. Another analogy (I know you hate them, but they're a very effective visual technique, lets not lie) is living somewhere like say Chernobyl. Now, whether you like living there, hate it, want leave or just can't, living there will affect you. The longer you live there, the moreso. The warp is alot like this. Where the radiation seeps into your body, the warp will do the same. This is what defines Chaos Space Marines, sets them apart from every other faction. They are noticeably warped. Changed beyond recognition and redemption. But they don't need redemption, because this is the change they want, the change they are trying to bring into power. They all know that if they are to complete their goal of killing the False Emperor, another power must fill the vacuum. And they all know this power will be Chaos.

 

Besides, being anti-Imperium is enough to brand you Chaos - that doesn't mean that you have become a warped version of a standard marine - you can look archaic and impressive and veteran-y in a different way. What I'm saying is they could have gone a number of ways when they sculpted the Chaos warband (they could have excluded the cultists altogether and add a non-elite squad for example) but they went for OTT "Chaotic" marines. Maybe they opted for that given that a more subtle appearance would not have visually differentated them enough from the DAs that are in the same box. And they succeded! They made beutiful models. Just not in the direction I would have hoped personally (and appears others in this threadshare the same view). Obviously for you they look just right. I look fwd to see your work with them- maybe give me some inspiration of how to credibly fit them in a Black Legion army...

 

Being anti-imperium is enough to brand you Excommunicate Traitoris. Being a Chaos Marine is being a worshiper of the Chaos Gods. Even the Imperium differentiates between Renegades and Chaos Marines. Legions are not the defining aspect of CSM. Chaos is. The Legions are the history of your warbands, ancient history. One thing GW has been pushing in the last dex is the Legions no longer exist in any recognizable sense. They are now led by warlords who follow their own agendas and beliefs. After millennia in the warp, none are the puritans they once were. Not the Night Lords, not the Iron Warriors, not the Alpha Legion. Like I said, you can have your warband of Iron Warriors who hate mutation, but you'll be a niche market, because the Legion isn't the focus of the codex. Its the mutated, warped daemon worshipers, the broken down Warbands mixed of a variety of backgrounds, lead by the strongest, who will be almost invariably favoured by the gods because he is the strongest. This is what makes Chaos. This is what makes them unique and seperates them from every Loyalist faction and even every xenos.

[Bearingtheword]

@ Biaz I think that is the clearest most succinct argument regarding Chaos that I have ever read. :)

 

I fully agree that these guys being Chosen is exactly why they look the way they do. They are the chosen of the gods and thus have had their "gifts" bestowed upon them. Do I think that these chosen represent all chaos marines? Nope, as the others are not likely to be as blessed/corrupted as chosen and champions. It would have been cool to see which direction the standard Chaos marines are taking in the starter set but they didn't do that for us, but it's still pretty cool.

 

Now do I have a place for those chosen models within my Word Bearers? Quite possibly, they'd either be a retinue for my Dark Apostle, or as has been stated by others, champions for various squads. Hells, I am kicking myself for sacrificing a Huron model as a conversion a month back, not knowing that this new Chosen Champ would be so perfect for representing my Dark Apostle in power armour.

 

 

I'm just hoping and praying that I won't miss out on getting one of the sets with the Limited Edition chaplain in it since I have to wait until Sept 3 or 4th to order my set. At least I'll get my hands on a Hellbrute either way. T~hose are gonna be some fairly fun units to be using and models to convert.

 

~BtW

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

The Davey Jones avatar really makes that post. :P

 

Lol, nice one (your excellent rant) :P

 

Its also most likely the least "objective" rant ever, lol. You know it requires very little sophistery to argue your findings ;) Those who do not worship chaos in its forms and shapes would likely claim that those who do are nothing but mere mindless slaves with next to no will of their own you know :P

 

Seriously though. Chaos and its adherants, are diverse. A company of Iron warriors might have no physical mutations what so ever (their minds however....) while the sons of Lorgar would likely have many.

That was also my original point. That mutated Chosen while awesome models to look at (and yeah, I am going to field a couple as champions or lords myself), does not necessarily fit every legion, or even the majority of them.

 

Maybe I'm waaay too influenced by ADB's portrayal of the Night Lords... but it makes sense to me. Traitor Space Marines (even Night Lords ;)) started off as sane individuals that did things for a reason - even if this was not generally accepted as a good or moral reason (by 30k/40k standards). Becoming warped worshippers of the Chaos gods was one way to go... Trying to maintain a semblance of organization and military disciple was another. And as the resources of the Imperium were denied to them, their looks would be more like a mix of older types of armour, salvaged equipment and battelfield trophies (like say Talos' BA sword) rather than super ornate and warped equipment the new minis carry. Everything exists in the 40k Universe, everything can fit. But I just wish the new minis of the boxed set were more useable as Legion marines rather than a random warband with no obvious Legion allegience.

Much thanks for answering guys :D Yes, I know that Chaos isn't the only way and as Iron Sage pointed out it's not very objective at all. I just figured since ADB had put out quite a bit of non-Chaos traitorous writing to influence everybody to like that, I should probably do my part to give Chaos some of its lost influence back. I actually wrote an IA on a serious warband that utterly refuses to touch Chaos and its struggle to survive so believe me, there's equal ground for both. I just want the Dark Gods and their Chaos Marines to get legitimate credit as well :)