Force Organisation

[Azrael Turnbull]

Can someone give a more in depth explanation as to the breakdown of the Dark Angels force organisation and how a battle force is deployed for a particular campaign? It is pretty clear what each company contains, and also clear that a single company will contain aspects of other companies (i.e. 3rd company heading into a campaign with Deathwing Terminators).

 

I just wanted a broader idea of what the reserve companies are used for. Do they act separately, being sent off to another warzone where the three front line companies are already busy? Or do they simply provide additional Tactical, Assault and Devastators as per the relevant reserve company to the three main companies?

 

If the latter is the case, does that mean it is extremely rare to see one of the reserve companies on the field by themselves, or even unheard of? Does this also mean that the five reserve Company Masters rarely or never see the battlefield other than to assist one of the main Company Masters in a campaign considered too large for one company to handle?

 

I realise that this could just as easily be a vanilla marine question as well, so if this post is supposed to be somewhere else, I apologise.

[Captain Semper]

Can someone give a more in depth explanation as to the breakdown of the Dark Angels force organisation and how a battle force is deployed for a particular campaign? It is pretty clear what each company contains, and also clear that a single company will contain aspects of other companies (i.e. 3rd company heading into a campaign with Deathwing Terminators).

 

I just wanted a broader idea of what the reserve companies are used for. Do they act separately, being sent off to another warzone where the three front line companies are already busy? Or do they simply provide additional Tactical, Assault and Devastators as per the relevant reserve company to the three main companies?

 

If the latter is the case, does that mean it is extremely rare to see one of the reserve companies on the field by themselves, or even unheard of? Does this also mean that the five reserve Company Masters rarely or never see the battlefield other than to assist one of the main Company Masters in a campaign considered too large for one company to handle?

 

I realise that this could just as easily be a vanilla marine question as well, so if this post is supposed to be somewhere else, I apologise.

 

Apart from the Second Company, the DAs are a Codex Chapter. There is no reason fluff-wise that I am aware of to suggest that DA reserve companies would act any differently compared to a Codex Chapter - say UMs... They are there to boost the fighting ability of the Battle Companies - to give tem the edge in particular situations where more marines of a certain specialty are required. It is also conceivable that they would operate on their one if tactical situation reconciles with their specific specialty or if the need is such that every marine will be called upon - even if he's not equipped specifically for the job at hand... Everything goes really...

[Cactus]

I agree, definitely a codex question. In general I think the reserve companies are used to supplement the battle companies when they're deployed to a campaign. There are several examples in Imperial Armour Badab War books, where it describes the forces each chapter sent to the Maelstrom Zone.

 

For example the Salamanders deployed their under-strength 2nd company from Nocturne (not far from Badab) where it was replenishing after a previous campaign, supported by "reserve elements" from Nocturne's garrison, 30 1st company Fire Drakes, and six venerable dreadnoughts. The Executioners sent their 2nd, 3rd and 5th battle companies, 6th reserve company, 11th* scout company and half their 1st veteran company. It's noted that the Executioners arrived in stages, which suggests some or all of those forces were already deployed elsewhere and getting them all together was a significant undertaking.

 

The only possible source I can think of for Unforgiven force organisation is Purging of Kadillus, but I can't find my Storm of Vengeance campaign book for easy reference so I'll leave that task to someone else.

 

*The Executioners have three scout companies, 10, 11 & 12.

[Azrael Turnbull]

Hmm. This was the only assumption I could come up with, but that still leaves me unsure about the reserve Company Masters. Unless the whole chapter were called to battle (so very rare), it is unlikely for one of them to die in battle. They must be old and somewhat bored! And none of them would ever earn enough glory to rise to Chapter Master if Azrael were to fall. Would it, therefore, be half considered a dishonour to be positioned as a reserve Company Master rather than a front line Company Master? If I were offered the position, I think I'd stay as a Terminator Sergeant!

[Cactus]

I'm not so sure about that. If we assume that the core of a Dark Angels force will be one of the battle companies, it would almost certainly include vehicles from the armoury and probably some 1st/2nd/10th company specialist support to suit the mission requirements. Likewise, I expect the force is supplemented by marines from the reserve companies thus altering the balance of tactical, devastator and assault units as the situation dictates. At this point you've possibly got a couple of hundred marines, plus tank crews, which is equivalent to two companies, so send another captain along too.

 

A lot of fleet-based chapters regularly travel in full chapter strength so I don't think it would be "very rare" for the whole Dark Angels chapter to be present and active. Of course, that's active across an entire sub-sector or similar, not necessarily active on the same battlefield.

 

Finally, what makes you think when the offer of captaincy of the 7th company arrives that refusal is an option? :)

[Captain Semper]

Also you assume that the Master's duties are exclusively to lead their Company to battle. They also have other duties (much like in other Chapters) relating to the overall operation of the Chapter such as Master of the Fleet, Master of the Watch, Master of Recruits... Also they have other more esoteric duties being members of the Inner Circle (Master of Sacred Rites etc) something a DW Sergeant is not. Also they might take the field of battle in joint operations, say 5th Company supported by 4 squads of the 6th Company led by the 6th Master... You know depending on the mission.

[pueriexdeus]

In my opinion the reserve companies are actually advanced training companies, TAC, DEV, FA.

 

A logical sequence of events dictates that the initiate will undergo additional training, suited to their personality and skill set. Many Codi ago the 9thy Co was the Fast Attack company that trained and fought with Jump-Packs, Bikes, and Land Speeders, it was theorized then that the Ravenwing took their members from this pool of trained Legionaries. This was retconed some time ago but my logic is that a venue to develop the Legionnaire would be in place to continue training after the 10 Co experience. Some may argue the fallacy in my logic because the elements of Reserve Co's are deployed in combat, I'll only add that their needs to be a culmex (Culminating Exercise) at some point to determine a Units skills.

 

Once developed the Dark Angel Legionnaire will be assigned to a suitable battle company for further training and experience.

 

At this time they will either rise in the ranks or die in the service to the Emperor.

 

***edit; clarification***

[JeffJedi]

I think I read somewhere that since we lack one standard battle company compaired to other chapters, our reserves are used more often.

[Azrael Turnbull]

I think I read somewhere that since we lack one standard battle company compaired to other chapters, our reserves are used more often.

 

I can see the logic, but I don't think it's true. We still have 500 solid Marines/Terminators for our frontline companies. When Deathwing and Ravenwing are distributed, the numbers all add up. Similarly, I imagine Tactical Marines etc will be provided to Sammael and Belial so they can act separately. Whether these spare Tacts/Devs/Assault are simply traded with other front line companies for their own specialist units or are provided from reserve companies, it doesn't matter. In fact, if the reserves are providing to Sammael and Belial, then logically we would have a larger average used force than the average marine chapter, but hold less in reserve.

[xnickbaranx]

Page 14 of C:DA breaks it down for you.

 

9th Company = Defensive missions and long range support (of the other companies)

 

8th Company = Used when a hand to hand is needed, like storming an enemy strongpoint

 

6th & 7th Company = Used to bolster the front line, launch diversionary attacks, and protect theflanks.

 

Essentially all of the Reserve Companies get their fair share of fighting usually in support of one or more of the Battle Companies.

 

Also, casualties are replaced by calling up members from the Reserve Companies to take their place in the Battle Companies.

 

So when people are saying they're training companies, yeah, that is implied. As for Reserve Company Masters earning glory - they absolutely would. In most deployments where they are present they would be subordinate to the Battle Company Master they are supporting but they'd still lead their men like any other commander during a battle.

[jeremy1391]

I would guess that "new captains" are put in charge of the reserve companies so that they too would get trained up at being a captain.

[march10k]

My understanding is that a single squad of marines is a more valuable asset than a nuke-equipped artillery battery. Seeing more than a squad or two on a given battlefield is a rare occurence. Accordingly, the squads that comprise those reserve companies see regular use...separately. Conflicts that would cause an entire battle company to be deployed together are insanely rare. So how often would, say, the third company, be in need of a couple of squads from the sixth? Pretty much never! My theory is that most of the routine requests for a squad of marines to support the IG are handed to the reserve companies, while the 3rd-5th companies mainly deal with fighting that the chapter itself is initiating/taking the lead on, especially when it requires the coordinated efforts of more than just a single squad of marines.

 

How does that translate to the tabletop game? I'd say that if you're taking a small splash of green DA allies in an IG army (like, a tactical squad, character, and maybe a dev or assault squad), make them reservists. Otherwise, line company is the way to go.

[Azrael Turnbull]

Hmm, it'd be much easier to gain insight on a Space Marines abilities if they weren't the least accurately represented on tabletop. We've all heard stories where a squad of marines kills everyone and are effectively invincible, and less insane stories where it takes a whole company to win a war, but they are still frightening to behold.

 

One thing for certain is that they can't simply be S4 T4 3+ save, or the company would be too weak to fight after the first few battles with literally any opponent. So, why to the workshop insist on weak and cheap Space Marines? (Other than to sell more stuff, of course).

[FlamingDeth]

Hmm, it'd be much easier to gain insight on a Space Marines abilities if they weren't the least accurately represented on tabletop. We've all heard stories where a squad of marines kills everyone and are effectively invincible, and less insane stories where it takes a whole company to win a war, but they are still frightening to behold.

 

One thing for certain is that they can't simply be S4 T4 3+ save, or the company would be too weak to fight after the first few battles with literally any opponent. So, why to the workshop insist on weak and cheap Space Marines? (Other than to sell more stuff, of course).

More likely because it wouldn't be all that fun for the marine player to play a 1500 point list that consists of a single tactical squad. GW made rules for that at one point in a WD though, the "Movie Marine" rules. It depicted them closer to the fluff, but it literally did make a single squad the whole army. Some of the rules were pretty funny, like the power fist saying that since it was so bulky and unwieldy the Space Marine could only strike at initiative 4.

[37cee]

In FW's Imperial Armour books its mentioned that sometimes the reserve companies sometimes are used as vehicle crews, although im not sure in which book it was (i think it was in IA2 though).

I doubt the reserve company sees less action than a normal company. Looking at the Siege of Vraks (Part 1) the DA not only deployed most of the 3rd and the entire 5th Company, they also deployed a major part of the chapters reserve, in total 160 marines of the 6th, 8th and 9th company, with the DW and Ravenwing forces the DA Deployed 375 Marines. Assuming the fact that the reserve Crews are used to man the fighting vehicles most part of the 6th company might have been used for the Dark Angels armoured forces (46 Rhino based fighting vehicles), although the Rhinos that were deployed with the reserve companies somehow are contradictory.

So we can assume that for every larger engagement we will see a major part of a strikeforce beeing for the chapters reserve forces.

[Azrael Turnbull]

Yes, I read the mission on Vraks. It was looking so good until the Chaos Marines revealed themselves... I'd rather not think about what happened after that.

[Aradiel]

One thing for certain is that they can't simply be S4 T4 3+ save, or the company would be too weak to fight after the first few battles with literally any opponent. So, why to the workshop insist on weak and cheap Space Marines? (Other than to sell more stuff, of course).

 

you can find more "realistic" profiles for a marine in the inquisitor game. a human has a average value of 50 in strenght and in thoughnes, while a marine is 150 toughness and 200 in strenght (before the power armor bonus, 25% extra strenght iirc).

[Azrael Turnbull]

One thing for certain is that they can't simply be S4 T4 3+ save, or the company would be too weak to fight after the first few battles with literally any opponent. So, why to the workshop insist on weak and cheap Space Marines? (Other than to sell more stuff, of course).

 

you can find more "realistic" profiles for a marine in the inquisitor game. a human has a average value of 50 in strenght and in thoughnes, while a marine is 150 toughness and 200 in strenght (before the power armor bonus, 25% extra strenght iirc).

 

Thank you for that insight. I will make sure to read the 'Inquisitor' rules if just to gain knowledge of the extent of a Space Marine. Do you also have an opinion on the Deathwatch roleplaying game? They are also superior to normal tabletop Marines, but how much so is difficult to understand with such a random dice roll system. I mean, the possibility of a baby winning an arm wrestle with a full grown Ork can't be considered a reliable source after all.

 

Ha, maybe I answered my own question.

[Vodunius]

On the general codex front, the 3rd edition vanilla dex had an extensive write-up on the Ultramarines, not the general 'X squads plus unspecified transports' we usually get but a full listing of every marine/bike/can opener. It listed the actual organisation of the chapter but also listed several operations which were a separate kettle of fish: the 4th company was currently at full strength as far as TO&E went, but operationally only half the company was operating under the Captains command. Of particular relevance is that whilst the bulk of the chapter was conducting routine patrols of Ultramar the 6th company Captain was leading an operation comprised of 40 marines from the 1st, 6th, 8th, 9th & 10th companies - only 15 of them being from his own company. Personally I figure that's going to be fairly standard - a Captain is A Man With A Plan, a reinforced company doesn't need an extra Captain to reinforce The Plan, but odds are there'll be plenty of other operations that require less manpower but do still need A Plan.

 

IIRC the Red Scorpion force at Anphelion was comprised of most of the 6th company and part of the 1st under the 1st Company Commander (6th company captain not present) - no battle company involvement.