Loosing our touch?

[IK Viper]

I was listening to several podcasts this week and it was mentioned that BA got a serious nurf from 6th edition, one podcast went so far as to say that they "felt bad for BA" because of how much harder it is to get into assault and win decisively in assault now. I don't understand this since in my estimation, BA have basically everything that C:SM have but with the added advantages of having JP equiped troops, Stormravens, fast vehicles, and some kick butt dreadnoughts. in addition to the always sexy nipple armor.

 

I want to see what you guys' reaction is to this, to me, 6th ed is tougher on assault based armies and we should probably incorperate more shooting flexability into our lists (which I do anyway) but a strong CC contengant of my army will always be important (we are BA after all)

 

I think we would be best served using our speed to achieve localized superiority, rolling through portions of the enemy force, and have enough ranged fire power to force the enemy to spread out rather then castling up where we have to take them on all at ounce.

 

on this note I think I really want a vindicator... but the AutoLas Predator build is working very well for me in low point games.

[Brother_Angelus]

Everyone seems to have an opinion of who has been "nerfed" in 6th, and if you listen to all of them; every army has got worse, has got better, or should be abandoned totally. All at the same time. They should be taken with a big pinch of salt.

 

I would counter with the following;

 

*Fast vehicles are pretty boss now, and we have them in spades.

*Attack bikes are great too, and who else can give them FNP on top of the T5 and Jink saves?

*Sure, its harder to get to combat, but once you're there, few things can compete with DC or Talon dreads for making opposing units literally disappear.

*Oh, and we have arguably the best flier too.

 

Your move net pundits.

[Gregornet]

excellent point.

 

edit: removed post

[Xenith]

The more important question is:

 

Why do you care?

[Drunken Angel]

Storm Raven, if not the best flyer one of the best

Feel No Pain, if you think its been nerfed try playing against Corbulo no-one else gets priests its our signature model

Feel No Pain against non ID power weapons for everyone, enough said

Death Company, a 20 point AV3 model that has FNP, attacks 5 times on the charge at WS5, S5 and gets to fire relentlessly

Death company, with power fists

Death Company, 5 with jump packs, a power axe and power fist =215 pts, are virtually as survivable (3+ 5+) as Sanguinary Guard

Assault Squads, as scoring troops

Hammer of Wrath Attacks with jump packs at I10

Re-rolled assaults with jump packs

Relaxed penalties on jump packs and dangerous terrain and .... FNP

Fast tanks

Twin Linked Assault cannons on fast tanks that scout

The Castaeus Assault Ram

Attack bikes with FNP

Cheap Efficient devastators

Mephiston, a fleeting monster now and probably the uber bogeyman of AV3 troops

Sanguinary Guard, now the flying terminators of 40K, AV2 AP2 (glaives/axes check your local rules) add a priest. Who cares if you strike at I1 everything except hammers and fists bounces off AV2 and even then you get .... :lol: ..... FNP

Access to all kinds of cool stuff in the new psychic lores

 

Whats not to like about being a Blood Angel ? go visit the GK or SW forums down the page and read there.

Those guys have not grasped the real consequences of 6th yet. Everything they had anyone else can take and so can we, but why would you?

We are in good shape, not OP but with the codex tools in the right hands to threaten any list out there. I am pretty happy with the challenges ahead.

[knife&fork]

I was listening to several podcasts this week and it was mentioned that BA got a serious nurf from 6th edition, one podcast went so far as to say that they "felt bad for BA"

 

I understand.

DoA and razorspam became useless as soon as the new rulebook arrived. I have a diverse model collection to fall back on but I feel bad for any player who suddenly was sitting with a lame duck. In that regard no other dex got hit quite as hard as BA did by the new edition.

 

BA isn't unplayable, far from it, but our options for making a viable army became fewer.

 

The FnP change might have helped multiwound models and bikes, but it's a net loss for regular marines and terminators.

[Morticon]

Ive been struggling to find a decent all-rounder list personally. But, I dont think this is a problem endemic to BA.

 

I think many lists are sitting with these problems.

 

Checklist for me is:

 

Do we have anti-air?

Do we have anti-horde?

Do we have anti-death star

Do we have anti-tank?

Can we get there and then out-fight what we can't outshoot?

Can we out-move and out-shoot what we cant out-fight?

Do we have psychic protection?

Do we have scoring bodies?

Do we have a resilient warlord?

Do we have mobile Troops?

 

 

Soooo many factors ><;

[JamesI]

I've found it very hard to make a good all arounder. So I gave up and just play whatever I feel like.

[Emperors Immortals]

I've found it very hard to make a good all arounder. So I gave up and just play whatever I feel like.

 

 

Ive suspected that this was GW's plan for quite a while now - hand the game back to the casual group. Im sure tournie builds will catch up soon, Morticon will be back on top :lol:

[Deschenus Maximus]

There certainly have been some nerfs. ASM-based Razorspam got hit massively hard. FnP and FC nerf took a lot of wind from our jumper lists' sails. But as was pointed out by others, other stuff got boosted. Vindis are useful now, so is the Raven. Attack bikes are a lot more difficult to deal with. Tac squads are actually decent (been using them extensively). I'd say we slid down the pole a bit, but we're still ok.

[SamaNagol]

We do Drop Pods better than almost anyone else.

 

Death Company became arguably one of the best assault units in the game.

 

Furiosos are still very tough to kill in combat.

 

Mephiston got situationally better (and he doesn't care about your AP3 Power Weapons)

 

Tycho got REALLY good!

 

I can add more....

[John_f]

I think fast tank and jump infantry is the way to go. Predators are cheap and fast vidicators are just to good to ignore. Use your speed to keep your back armour out of harms way and invest 100p in a Aegis with a quad.

[Judaz]

Storm Raven, if not the best flyer one of the best Agree 100%

Feel No Pain, if you think its been nerfed try playing against Corbulo no-one else gets priests its our signature model FnP everywhere is almost as good as Reanimation protocol

Feel No Pain against non ID power weapons for everyone, enough said

Death Company, a 20 point AV3 model that has FNP, attacks 5 times on the charge at WS5, S5 and gets to fire relentlessly I will never go to battle without them

Death company, with power fists

Death Company, 5 with jump packs, a power axe and power fist =215 pts, are virtually as survivable (3+ 5+) as Sanguinary Guard And the opponent is terrified when he sees them

Assault Squads, as scoring troops

Hammer of Wrath Attacks with jump packs at I10 I have almost never used it, the random range have failed me to often

Re-rolled assaults with jump packs Still...

Relaxed penalties on jump packs and dangerous terrain and .... FNP This is really good for us

Fast tanks Same as before, only better

Twin Linked Assault cannons on fast tanks that scout More dakka!

The Castaeus Assault Ram We have to ally it then, right?

Attack bikes with FNP Too bad I don't like bikes, they are just so much better now

Cheap Efficient devastators No change here, still good

Mephiston, a fleeting monster now and probably the uber bogeyman of AV3 troops He was, he still is and he will always be the Lord of Death

Sanguinary Guard, now the flying terminators of 40K, AV2 AP2 (glaives/axes check your local rules) add a priest. Who cares if you strike at I1 everything except hammers and fists bounces off AV2 and even then you get .... :tu: ..... FNP They are expensive, but way much better in 6th

Access to all kinds of cool stuff in the new psychic lores

 

Whats not to like about being a Blood Angel ? go visit the GK or SW forums down the page and read there.

Those guys have not grasped the real consequences of 6th yet. Everything they had anyone else can take and so can we, but why would you?

We are in good shape, not OP but with the codex tools in the right hands to threaten any list out there. I am pretty happy with the challenges ahead.

 

 

I've allied in some GK termies. Man, they rock. They shoot like gods, they assault like gods and with Prescience they are a bit too good.

 

I'd say that most armies are both nerfed and boosted. The armies that has gotten more boost than nerf is probably the hordes. Orc shoota boys overwatching? That hurts. But on the other hand, they don't have a lot of AP2. 6th did a good job balancing, this game will always have powergamers that find The List to win games with, but for us casual, fluffy players I think 6th is a good thing.

[Remtek]

Once flak is FAQ'ed in, every list will be running 3 dev squads. They will be strong against just about anything. (air, vehicles, marines, horde). It's hard to say if jump infantry got better or worse imo. Random charge range is kinda annoying, so is overwatch. Hammer of wrath is nice, but wont be available alot of times. I think its too early to say, i dont think we got nerfed though. Corbulu is awesome now, and DC got a big buff.

[Morollan]

Once flak is FAQ'ed in, every list will be running 3 dev squads. They will be strong against just about anything. (air, vehicles, marines, horde).

 

If rumour is to be believed. Flak will replace Frag and Krak, not be in addition to those options. So you can either have Devs that can fire at flyers or at ground targets but not both.

[Deschenus Maximus]

Once flak is FAQ'ed in, every list will be running 3 dev squads. They will be strong against just about anything. (air, vehicles, marines, horde).

 

If rumour is to be believed. Flak will replace Frag and Krak, not be in addition to those options. So you can either have Devs that can fire at flyers or at ground targets but not both.

 

That's what I've seen as well... which is totally retarded. Not only do you have to pay a 5 pts surcharge... but now you are useless versus all other targets. Stupid, utterly stupid. I could have seen replacing ONE of the two base missiles, but not both.

[Xenith]

When they replaced at no cost, unscrupulous gamers would decide what their launchers were armed with before each game, adjusting if they faced a flyer heavy list, and that is apparently why they replace both.

 

I dont see why they cant just add 5pts to the launcher cost and let them have all three. Mayeb launchers are too powerful at the moment.

[Deschenus Maximus]

@Xenith - that's a simple fix: just make it mandatory to write which missiles you have in your army list.

[Chaplain Admetus]

Not sure if the Storm Raven is 'The Best' flyer in the game but its definitely up there - fighting for the top slot with the Vendetta and Doom Scythe (easily the top 3).

 

FnP is on balance about the same as it was before. 1 in 3 chance to save instead of 50/50, but you get it against more stuff so the number of models saved per game by FnP is roughly equal, in my experience. DC are now good, but you have to find the balance between damage dealing effectiveness, numbers, and points.

 

Scoring Jump Squads: Speed is our friend. Essentially gives us an edge over other armies (with 6" move on their troops) as it means we can afford to wait an extra turn before making an objective run.

 

Hammer of Wrath: Remember bikes get it too (even though I don't really run bikes myself). Its useful if you can guarantee the charge (i.e. something is 8" or less away from you before you move) - I've had games where a failed near-certain charge from my opponent (failing a 4 or 5 inch charge) has let me guarantee those extra hits. Its not something to play for all the time as they won't make a huge amount of difference, but if it costs you nothing to get the advantage then take it.

 

Devs are still solid. I'm really struggling though - the 4 ML squad is the best all-around choice, but I've enjoyed 2 ML 2 Plasma Cannon for helping break power and especially terminator armour.

And whilst I'm here, Flak missiles: GW's kinda painted themselves into a corner on this one. Either you give them in addition to the current missiles, in which case the squad is an auto-include, or you make them replace other missiles with Flak, in which case they become terrible unless you know you're facing fliers ahead of time.

 

Furiosos: The number of people that still get caught out by the front armour 13 is stunning.

 

Our problem is (and historically has been) cost. Most of our stuff (with the exception of Devastators, bizarrely) is more expensive than other marine books. We can have game against most things, but we struggle to do it all at once. Even the best all-rounder list I ever came up with couldn't beat extremely heavy mech...I pretty much bent over to tank heavy guard armies. I'm on the verge of resurging my shooty angels list - caught several people on the hop back in 5th ed, and might be good again.