Where do we fail?

[TheDarkOne]

So, we've all played a bunch of games in 6th now, and because we have a pretty solid codex, we've probably won more than our fair share of them.

 

Where do we fail? What games have you lost in the last few months, and why?

 

I haven't lost many, but I have lost against Eldar, Orks and Necrons in recent memory.

 

Eldar, was Eldrad, Avatar, 2 big Guardian Squads, 3 Scatter Laser War Walkers, 2 Wraithlords, 10 Wraithguard - 1500 points.

 

I took, 2 10 man strike squads with psybolts and 2 psycannons each, 2 chimeras, a 3 man meltagun squad with razorback, 2 psyflemen, a teleporting incinerating dreadknight and the 3 plasma cannon servitors with 6 extra wounds in warrior acolytes. Cotaez and the TDA psycannon inquisitor.

 

Killed the avatar with shooting turn 1 before he could be fortuned. killed a bunch of stuff, kept the eldar player on the back of his heels with shooting. killed war walkers and wraithlords, at the end of the game was stuck with 1 unit in combat with wraithguard and Eldrad, and 1 strike squad on my objective. he had both guardian squads, but only 1 was still scoring. I foolishly put attacks into Eldrad, and lost the game when my strike squad died and he still had 1 wraithguard standing to score, winning the game - Moral of the story, KILL THE TROOPS!

 

Against Orks, he had warboss on bike with nob bikers, 2 big shoota boy mobs, kff big mek, 9 kannons with max ammo runts, 2 mobs of 7 lootas, and a mob of grots.

 

I took, Librarian, with Rift, Might, Shrouding, Techmarine with Warding Stave, Death cult that buy a chimera, cotaez and plasma cannoners as above, 3 plasmagunners in a chimera, 1 10 man strike squad as above, stormraven, 2 psyflemen. 1500.

 

capture and control, 2 objective game. Turn 1 I kill off all of the nob bikers with shooting, forcing the warboss to break, almost off the board. Cotaez had the abilty to deny cover saves from the plasma cannons, godlinesss... again, i kept him on the back of his heels with shooting killing large numbers of orks in each turn. i charged out of the raven turn 2 (we made a mistake and I was allowed to start it on the board in hover mode), charged into the shoota boyz, and lost a lot fo DCAs to their overwatch, killed the warbooss on the bike who joined them and eventually only my librarian was left, and he was killed by shooting in the next turn. I had the game in hand, with the plasma cannons holding my home objective, but he focused all his cannon fire on them and eventually wiped them out. i was too aggressive with my strikers and they couldn't make it to an objective by the end of the game, though they did kill a lot of stuff. Moral - Play the objectives! if your only objective holder is a little weak human shaped unit, have a backup handy... perhaps a power armored backup?

 

Necrons, Zadyrek, Obyron, 3 squads of immortals, 2 tesla, 1 gauss, crypteks and lords in squads,s o each unti of immortals had the ability to veil and have a res orb, 3 annihilation barges, 2 necron flyers (the transports, but empty, just for guns.) and a command barge with a nasty necron lord in it.

 

I brought 10 termis, dreadknight with teleporter and incinerator, 2 psyflemen, 2 strike squads in rhinos fully kitted, TDA Inq, Cotaez, plasma cannon squad. - 1850

 

In a previous game with the same lists i pulled out a draw, he's got a really good list, and unless you can kill a whole unit of immortals when you have the shot, they leave and good luck hitting them again. he went first, and jumped around next to me, killing my mobility, and some knights, i wiped a squad of immortals with 1 plasma cannon volley (3 hits, thank you rerolls!), but the cryptek and obyron got up and veiled away onto an objective. I couldn't kill things fast enough and his necron lord on a barge made it to my objective, and was a big pain in the ass. I don't really know what the moral would be here, don't go second? The dreadknight performed admirably, but he doesn't threaten this list in the same way he does others, charging into mindshackle scarabs alone is just awful.

 

So, what have you found to be problems to come up against?

[undeadfilth]

A perspective from someone considering picking up grey knights(with extensive battle experience fighting against them) I'd say their biggest downfall is target saturation. Most GK armies(especially terminator heavy)suffer from a drastic difference in model count and units fielded vs. almost any army. Yes, your units are much more elite, but you have so few that those great saves will fail when you have multiple squads ganging up against one of yours. just my $.02 worth.

[spartan249]

The #1 situation in which we fail is when we do not have superior mobility or positioning to the opposing force. Grey Knights live and die by local superiority, and OPFORs that can negate that advantage have very little problem dealing with GKs.

[Castellan Alaric]

i lost to orks as well. i ran a purifier "deathstar" with a brotherhood champion in a raider redeemer (4xincinerators), psyfleman, 2x10 man strikers with 2 psycannons (one had a razor and combat squaded. he ran a big 30 shoota boy mob, with 2 groups of 12 lootas, a kannon battlewagon with his warboss and 6 nobs inside (included painboy) and his boom gun.

 

a strike squad got caught in the open trying to run across, and the boom gun killed 8 with one direct hit...my "deathstar" didn't get to hit with the tank as i underestimated his battlewagon driving OVER terrain to get to it and tear it open to get at the boys inside. i flamed+shot and charged (forgot cleansing flame though d'oh) and only managed to kill 3 nobs and forgot to do heroic sacrifice when my champ got killed (which would have killed his warboss...) after that the game was over lol

 

now, i played him before that with a gkgm with an osr and managed to smoked him lol that was my 1 loss with gk. that eldar list sounded pretty nasty though, yuk lol

[TheDarkOne]

there is a youtube video of that battle with the eldar,

, its kind of baissed as he's a little pissed my shooting was soo good....

[Captain Tezdal]

While I quit playing Grey Knights when the new dex came out, I regularly get thumped by a keen friend of mine whose awesome with 'em(even sadder is the fact he bought my old army and is beating me with it), but he also trashes most armies still, except for Tyranids for some reason.

[nurglez]

I've played Draigowing since the new codex came out, and I've had a fair bit of success with them (kept track of my ratio in my sig, second time I've done this and it has proved enlightening).

 

The few times I've lost I can remember pretty clearly (and mostly at 1500 with my trademarked list, Draigo, 15 pallies 6 psycannons no apothecary or banner, DK with HI, GS and PT).

 

First vs daemons I was out maneuvered in a 5 objective game. got bogged down in combat and while I killed what he sent at me, they held me up enough for him to grab the rather spread out objectives.

Next was vs Commander Sasha's skavenids, while I let him pick the set up and game, I acted stupidly and charged blindly forwards, letting him focus on my squads as they came to him one by one (I also combat squaded my 10man this game, bad mistake).

Another I lost vs dark eldar, was doing allright, but the game ended turn 5 with him having contested my objective while due to a stupid move Draigo was just out of range of his.

My most recent was vs deathwing. I played too aggressively (he reserved and pretty much everything arrived turns 3-4). My 10man squad, despite hitting on 3's and wounding on 2's with a reroll for the pallies (draigo attached ofc) managed to kill 1 deathwing terminator in a round of close combat, and then lost 6. Then ran away, next turn my 5 man squad had the same treatment and I was tabled (the dk had bought it to a squad too). At least my opponent went on to win Throne of Skulls (damn deathwing th/ss spam!).

 

So, basically due to such a low model count (17 models at 1500 points, 18 at 1750) I really had to think about my movement. My DK's helped me here loads by jumping ahead and distracting the opponent, or torching a scoring unit (DK with heavy incinerator and teleporter at least is a must take for me).

 

A smart opponent will try and bog you down, and out maneuver you. This goes for any army. The less models you have, the harder your choices are. Multiple scoring unit's are needed, unless you can reduce their scoring status below your own. Combat squad + scoring from a GM can mitigate this, but then you are losing out on scout or reroll 1's when wounding (do the math's on a str6 ap4 cover ignoring template covering a squad of imperial guard, now do it again rerolling 1's :) ).

 

The main thing I am worrying about in 6th is flyers. Masses of them, especially considering that the 2 easiest options (allies and fortifications) are one's I wont take as they don't fit the feel of my army to me (don't need to stinking help and don't need to bring cover cos they have faith in their armor), and I don't feel a single storm raven (all I could fit in my army) would do enough to protect me.

[adamv6]

and I don't feel a single storm raven (all I could fit in my army) would do enough to protect me

 

I had this thought Nurglez.

 

However, my single Stormraven is a flying machine slaughter device, thanks to PoTMS :) One turn I melta'd a Falcon, and AC'd a Razorwing. If you add psybolts, the AC can hammer almost all the flyers.

 

The only ones to worry about would be another Stormraven or that horrible squadron of IG Vendettas with their twinlinked Lascannons :P (however the Psybolt AC can glance them to death as well)

[saturnine]

The first 6th Ed game I played against Eldar, I tabled him on turn three, we played 1500 points. the second game, several weeks later, He tabled me on turn four.

 

In our second game,I had two inquisitor with incinerators, four 5 man SS's with a hammer and psycannon in a psyback, two 5 man Terminators with a hammer and psycannon each, two psyfleman dread, some sister allies that were Celestine, a 10 girl squad of battle sisters with flamer, heavy flamer, power maul and combi-plasma, and a 5 girl retributors with 4 heavy bolters.

 

He took Eldrad, Yriel, 10 man squad of dragons, 10 man squad of dire avengers, 5 pathfinders, a squad of reapers, two full units of gun platforms with D-cannons, two wave serpents, some tau allies with crisis suit HQ, and a full squad of fire warriors.

 

It was brutal, with the new artillery rules, those platforms are hard to take down. I couldn't get close and I couldn't out shot him.

 

Celestine killed the pathfinders and a unit of the cannons, one psyfleman dread took out his tau HQ and besides most of his squads taking a few casualties, that was it.

Fun game though, he got to try out those cannons and I got to run Sisters, even though, besides Celestine, they died before they could do anything. :)

 

(Edit Reason: I'm bad at grammar)

[TheDarkOne]

A good friend of mine is planning on bringing an Eldar list with Tau Allies to an 1850 tournament coming up in september.

 

I still can't believe Tau and Eldar are brothers in arms!

 

eldrad takes 5 powers from Divination, and can prescience 2 units a turn? nutty...

 

Not looking forward to getting into that fight...

 

I think that Eldrad with access to Divination just made Eldar good... and Tau love reroll to hit too... the fire warriors especially - too bad they evaporate to a shunting dreadknight with HI... ;)

[Vash]

A good friend of mine is planning on bringing an Eldar list with Tau Allies to an 1850 tournament coming up in september.

 

I still can't believe Tau and Eldar are brothers in arms!

 

eldrad takes 5 powers from Divination, and can prescience 2 units a turn? nutty...

 

Not looking forward to getting into that fight...

 

I think that Eldrad with access to Divination just made Eldar good... and Tau love reroll to hit too... the fire warriors especially - too bad they evaporate to a shunting dreadknight with HI... ;)

 

If I am not misstaken, from the Eldar FAQ v.1 Eldrad can take 4 powers in total. Still a lot!