Full Drop Pod Army

[Mattias]

Greetings, for some time now I have considered collecting a full drop pod army (have been slowly accumulating pods) and I was hoping to get some information on what the differences would be between drop pod armies built using the various codices available.

 

I would imagine that the play style of a drop pod army built from C:SM, C:SW and C:BA would all be quite different and that each would have its own pros and cons. However not being familiar with every marine codex I was hoping that someone could provide me with an overview of the relative merits and play styles of drop pod armies built using each of the marine codices currently available?

 

Thanks in advance for your help.

 

Cheers,

 

Matt

[LPetersson]

I have had a fair bit of success with all drop pod Space Wolf armies.

 

This is going back to before the current codex when I just used armies that were very heavy on drop pods, and with the current codex I have used both PA/TDA armies and pure TDA armies.

 

I tended to ensure that units with melta would go down near tanks, and plasma units near targets with a good save. I know that is common sense, but I just thought I'd point it out.

My dreadnoughts also tended to survive much better when they're surrounded by Wolf Guard terminators, as suddenly they're not necessarily the biggest threat...

 

I haven't played this list in 6th though...

[Vor]

I have had a fair bit of success with all drop pod Space Wolf armies.

 

This is going back to before the current codex when I just used armies that were very heavy on drop pods, and with the current codex I have used both PA/TDA armies and pure TDA armies.

 

I tended to ensure that units with melta would go down near tanks, and plasma units near targets with a good save. I know that is common sense, but I just thought I'd point it out.

My dreadnoughts also tended to survive much better when they're surrounded by Wolf Guard terminators, as suddenly they're not necessarily the biggest threat...

 

I haven't played this list in 6th though...

 

I only drop in 6 Grey Hunter squads, I don't use dreads, but it works as well for me in the limited 6th ed games I've tried it with as it did under 5th. Better if anything.

[Mattias]

Thanks for the feedback, so presumably the Space Wolf drop pod list must rely heavily on Grey Hunters, which seem to have an advantage over Tactical squads due to their extra special weapon and counter-attack. What units are typically deployed to support them (presumably wolf guard, dreadnoughts and long fangs?) and how are they normally configured? Vor in your case why do you choose to only use Grey Hunters, are there no support units you would find useful?

 

How do the C:SM lists compensate for the differences between the Tactical squad and Grey Hunters and what changes does this cause in play-style (e.g. am I right in thinking that C:SW lists would typically deploy much closer to the enemy?).

[Muctar]

I'll weigh in for C:SM drop pod lists.

 

Drop pod armies led by Vulkan are powerful because the buff he provides helps short ranged weaponry. Pods complement this by delivering those weapons into position as soon as possible. With Vulkan all-pod lists you want to completely overwhelm your opponent with your first strike so that they can only do minor damage to you in return until the rest of your force arrives to help mop up the remnants and secure objectives.

 

Pedro led pod lists are also powerful because you are able to spend more points on one of the codex's most potent units: sternguard. Rather than taking 2-3 tacticals as your scoring units you can get by with just 2 squads of scouts as troops and use the points you saved to invest in more sternguard, who will make up for the lack of troops by counting as scoring. The other benefit to this type of list is that stubborn will keep your marines from running from the combats they most likely will be engaged in since they will be deployed close to the enemy.

 

In either case you need to build the list around the characters' chapter tactics in order for it to be effective.

 

Personally I've run hybrid Vulkan pod/mech lists quite successfully and have discovered a few things. Firstly, tactical squads in a drop pod tend to have a very big impact when they enter the game but then decrease in efficiency as the game goes on due to casualties and/or a lack of mobility. If you're not careful a lone tactical squad can be hung out to dry and be easy prey for your enemy. They're best used in pairs or well supported by other units.

 

Next, podded dreadnoughts in 6e are more survivable then they were in 5e. With the introduction of hull points my local meta has changed somewhat insofar that people are not taking as many melta weapons as they used to. This means that dreads are less likely to drop in, shoot something, then get instantly vaporized in the enemy shooting phase. Now dreads can take a couple glancing hits and still operate in the later part of the game. However take this with a grain of salt since my meta is not your meta, and don't get too brazen and drop your dreads next to a squad of fire dragons or IG melta vets. They'll still vaporize him!

 

Sternguard are great in pods even without Pedro as they can multi-task if you kit them out right, and the pod delivers them into their most effective range right away. In non kill point games a great trick is 10 SG in a pod, 5x combi-melta and 5xcombi-flamer (or 3xcombi-flamer and 2 heavy flamers), land next to a high AV target like a land raider, combat squad, melta the vehicle, and then flame the contents. If you build this into a good pod army and play smart you will have taken out a very dangerous part of the enemy's army while keeping your sternguard supported by you other units, such as dreads and tacticals.

 

There are other units that can make great use of pods, such as 4x plasma gun command squads, but I don't have any experience in running them, yet. Another unit that may work well in a pod are a 10 strong unit of Devastators with four multi-meltas.

 

Depending on your playstyle a C:SM pod army can be effective at point-blank range by dropping in your opponent's face, or mid range by gaining the midfield in one fell swoop and forcing your opponent to come to you while suffering from your guns on the way in. The factors are what units you include, their roles, and how effectively you use them in-game.

[Warprat]

How do the C:SM lists compensate for the differences between the Tactical squad and Grey Hunters and what changes does this cause in play-style (e.g. am I right in thinking that C:SW lists would typically deploy much closer to the enemy?).

 

 

I have fought Space Wolves and done OK at it. Space Wolves Grey Hunter are awsome, but the Vanilla Marine tactical squads are good too. The trick to fighting Space Wolves, at least for me, is to emphasize the Tactical Squad's strenghts, while deneying the Space Wolves his.

 

The Space Wolves Grey Hunters have no long range weapon, they must come to you. They cannot charge and rapid fire. They use full squads, which seriously harm anything they touch. If you charge them, they get the assault bonus back.

 

So, my Tactical Squads takes a plasma cannon, flamer and combi-flamer. I split into combat squads. The plasma cannon tries to weaken the enemy as they approach. The flamers get one good blast. The bolters from both squads join in.

 

Grey Hunter armor is the same as SM Tacticals. Force enough saves, and you are bound to fail some. The flamer squad tries to delay the Grey Hunters, so the plasma cannon can have a couple good cracks at it.

 

I never win close combat against Grey Hunters. Best I can do is survive with my flamer and fall back, killing one or two in the process. The Grey Hunter's will overkill my squad, wasting some of thier strenght on it. That is ok. By the time they get to my plasma cannon squad, they should be severly weakened.

 

That is the gamble I make...

[Paulochromis]

surprised not to see mention of C:BT.

I'm not 100% sure, but I thought that their DP rules were different in that they don't have the 50% (rounded up) come down 1st turn.

 

C:SM only allows ICs in TDA to ride long, but I think C:SW and maybe C:BT allow TDA squads to use the pod.

 

Adding to what the commentators have already said, aggressive DP-ing means you need short-range troops (or if you have short-range units in pods, you need to deploy aggressively), so all-podding C:BA are also possible. Especially RAS with 2xMG, PF (and SS?) on serge for arrival turn tank-melt and next turn infantry-charge.

 

Don't forget defensive podding, you can create an AV12 wall and gunline behind it, especially for opponents who HAVE to come to you.

[templargdt]

Sorry for the slight threadjack, but I thought the all pod army was toast due to a rule about autolosing if you don't have any models on the board at any point? I haven't got a great handle on the new rules yet so if someone could clarify on this point I would appreciate it (I love drop pods so it would be nice to be wrong on this point.)

[Grey Mage]

Sorry for the slight threadjack, but I thought the all pod army was toast due to a rule about autolosing if you don't have any models on the board at any point? I haven't got a great handle on the new rules yet so if someone could clarify on this point I would appreciate it (I love drop pods so it would be nice to be wrong on this point.)

Its not at any point, its at the end of any turn after the first.

 

Only the tyranid all-reserve and eldar all-reserve armies got screwed over.

[Mattias]

Thank you for the feedback, based on the replies so far I am torn between Space Wolves and Raven Guard, I like both backgrounds and both seem capable of forming effective drop pod lists.

 

For C:SM a lot of the tactics seem to revolve around the use of special characters (e.g. Pedro or Vulkan), is it possible to make an effective C:SM drop pod list without using these special characters?

 

Also as a general drop pod list question do people find devestator/long fang squads with multi-meltas useful, it would seem to me that they could drop into the middle ground and set up an exclusion zone, this would also help counter more mobile enemies by targeting transport vehicles, does this tactic work?

[Reichfaust]

Also as a general drop pod list question do people find devestator/long fang squads with multi-meltas useful, it would seem to me that they could drop into the middle ground and set up an exclusion zone, this would also help counter more mobile enemies by targeting transport vehicles, does this tactic work?

 

As a SW player, I think this strategy could have merit--especially in 6th edition, where you can snap fire on landing (I think? Help me out here). Land near some cover, leg it to safety--running if you have to, snap firing if you don't--and boom; you've got yourself a 48" diameter "****-you-armour" zone. I feel this combination becomes even more lethal if you are running an all-pod army, just due to target saturation.

 

Sadly I only have one drop pod... but this thread is making me reconsider! ;)

[Muctar]

For C:SM a lot of the tactics seem to revolve around the use of special characters (e.g. Pedro or Vulkan), is it possible to make an effective C:SM drop pod list without using these special characters?

Absolutely. One of the biggest issues with a pod army is that you will not get the charge in assault and that the enemy will after shooting to weaken your force. A C:SM list can negate some of this with the use of combat tactics. After the opponents shooting phase you can choose to fall back and be out of charge range if you placed your models correctly after disembarking from the pods. Then in your turn regroup, move, shoot, and assault as you please.

 

The best HQs for this type of list would be a captain, libby, chapter master, or master of the forge, depending on what you would like to include in your list. No chaplain since fearless does not allow you to use combat tactics with the unit he is attached to. Libby gives your army support while captains and chapter masters add increased combat viability, command squads and honour guard, respectively. MotF allows you to add more than 3 dreads to your army or can free up elite slots.

 

There are lots of options to make a great pod list with C:SM without special characters.

[himkano]

To the OP, I think most marine armies can do a decent pod list, you just have to decide which units to put in the pod: you want something with 2 special weapons, and no heavy weapons. For that reason, tactical marines are probably the weakest choice - because they get 1 special weapon, and weapon they will have to snap shoot (if its not a template, otherwise they won't fire it at all).

 

For C:SM - I would probably go with Pedro and the Sterngaurd, I would go 4 combi melta, so you can combat squad and hit 2 tanks with 1 pod (you don't need pedro, but you aren't going to have a lot of extra points for troops after 3 full squads of sterngaurd)

 

C:BA - Assault marines - can take 2 flamers, 2 meltas, or 2 plasma, and you can give the sgt double plasma pistols or double infernus pistols if you want. (sterngaurd are still an option here)

 

C:SW - Grey hunter pack, for the same reason as C:BA assault marines, 2 special weapons (the wolves get cheaper troops, and cheaper weapon upgrades, but I think the BA still come out cheaper for the points, because they get a free drop pod).

 

I don't know much about DA or BT, but I think any of the 3 above would work out pretty well for full drop pod, with C:SM marines being most expensive, but also most able to do something productive with both squads coming out of the drop pod (because of the unlimited access to combi weapons).

 

I do want to add, a huge achilles heel to this list would be Grey Knights, so the more popular they are in your area, the less effective this army will be. (Either Coteaz or a simply GKSS can cause you a lot of problems)

[Mattias]

I am intrigued himkano why do you say that grey knights will be a particular problem, I am not familiar with them myself?

[ShinyRhino]

To the OP, I think most marine armies can do a decent pod list, you just have to decide which units to put in the pod: you want something with 2 special weapons, and no heavy weapons. For that reason, tactical marines are probably the weakest choice - because they get 1 special weapon, and weapon they will have to snap shoot (if its not a template, otherwise they won't fire it at all).

 

Do you mean the heavy weapon must fir Snap Shots on arrival? Because all of the Marine specials are Assault or Rapid Fire weapons, which can be fired to full effect on arrival. Sternguard heavy flamers are Assault, so can also fire at full effect on arrival.

 

C:BA - Assault marines - can take 2 flamers, 2 meltas, or 2 plasma, and you can give the sgt double plasma pistols or double infernus pistols if you want. (sterngaurd are still an option here)

 

Double plasma pistols is an option in every Marine Codex, though I'm not 100% on the DA and BT books.

 

C:SW - Grey hunter pack, for the same reason as C:BA assault marines, 2 special weapons (the wolves get cheaper troops, and cheaper weapon upgrades, but I think the BA still come out cheaper for the points, because they get a free drop pod).

 

Another massive boon to the Grey Hunters is Cuonter Attack. The ability to both Rapid Fire in Overwatch, and then get the effects of Counter Attack (additional attacks!) is HUGE.

[RolandTHTG]

I am intrigued himkano why do you say that grey knights will be a particular problem, I am not familiar with them myself?

 

Coteaz (a special character) has an ability "I've been expecting you" that allows him and his squad to fire at EVERY unit that arrives within 12 inches of him. So he can light up multiple units in the same turn (including both the pod and the squad that disembarked). I've killed off entire squads with this ability, before they even get the chance to shoot.

 

GK Strike Squads & Interceptor squads have a psychic power Warp Quake that causes all units that deploy (after scattering) by deepstrike with in 12 inches of any model in the squad to AUTOMATICALLY mishap. with proper spacing of the squad, huge areas can be denied to you if the GK play is planning for deepstrike.

 

Both these problems can be worked around, but will place you at an disadvantage (especially warp quake).

[Jehoel]

Double plasma pistols is an option in every Marine Codex, though I'm not 100% on the DA and BT books.

Unfortunately, DA cannot make use of the Gunslinger rule at all, since we have to give up the bolt pistol to get a plasma pistol. Hopefully GW will fix that in the new codex.

[Lord Ragnarok]

One thing to be mindful of with SW Grey hunters and not having heavy weapons is that if you have enough Wolf Guard you can have one lead a pack of Grey Hunters in a pod. A Terminator Wolf Guard with cyclone or Assault cannon helps mitigate the lack of power or range a heavy weapon provides. For every 5 Wolf Guard in a pack you can have one heavy weapon.

 

 

Here's and example from one of my recent lists:

 

6xwolf guard terminators pack, with pod

 

5x Wolf guard terminators go in pod with combiweapn and power weapons

The remaining Wolf Guard gets a cyclone missle launcher and power fist and gets split off to lead a pack of Grey hunters.

 

It is an expensive way to get the heavy weapon in the GH pack but the Wolf guard terminators have merit in the list anyway.

 

 

This is a timely general topic for me though as I want to also Drop Pod a codex force but unsure the best way to do it. Thanks for the topc. :P

[UnkyHamHam]

I would personally say that wolves are weakest in drop pod lists. Yes Grey Hunters are fantastic, but you cannot get as much out of them without attaching Wolfguard leaders or sending your Runepriests down with them. Wolf pods are max capacity 10 unfortunately.

 

Codex Marines will get you Sternguard, Ironclads, and Vulkan/Kantor. These as said by others are all good pod choices. Codex Marine characters can also ride along with 10 man squads, even if they are in TDA. This is a bonus for Vulkan/Kantor/Libbys that will be podding down with your Sternguard and Tacticals.

 

But by far, and I hate to admit it, the Blood Angels take the cake. They can drop Death Company, Librarian/Furioso Dreads, AND Sternguard. They have some really powerful characters to back up it all. Plus you can take advantage of the jump packless Assault Squads for cheap special weapons AND they are scoring. Throw in Sang Priests for your FnP/FC bubbles and that is a pretty solid recipe for staying power upon drop.

[Grey Mage]

What do DC do for you in a DP army? Expensive fire magnets?

[himkano]

I know that this isn't the rules forum, but the all drop pod army might actually be impossible. I know about special rules for dedicated transports, and the units in them - but you have to have a HQ somewhere, and most of them cannot take a Drop Pod by themselves. Say you put Pedro in a pod with 10 sterngaurd. The Sterngaurd and the drop pod count as one unit, and don't count as a unit (in terms of "half your army" since they MUST start in reserve), but it seems to me that Pedro would HAVE to be balanced by a unit starting on the board...

 

Like I said, I am not trying to start a big rules debate, but (unless I am missing something), this whole thread might be moot.

[UnkyHamHam]

What do DC do for you in a DP army? Expensive fire magnets?

 

If they have to, yes. They are a ridiculous tactical squad for their relatively low point cost. Podding armies require units with one of two abilities (both is preferable). Some sort of alpha strike shooting attack to cripple an enemy unit right out the pod. Or major survivability, so that they can begin assaults on the following turns. Death Company can drop in and unleash a full broadside of bolters much like a tactical squad, and add in two melta pistols. they can take a tank or infantry. they then have the survivability to dish out continuous pain in the following turns. Even if they do get shot apart upon drop, they will already have took something down, and taken a great amount of enemy fire off of your other unit's backs. Thus increasing the longevity of most of your army. Most people will try and deal with them right away which can in itself be helpful. Adding the Chaplain or a couple of PWs can also make them look even scarier. Don't overdue though on upgrades as they will get expensive.

[Grey Mage]

Id hardly call 20pts a model relatively low- and those melta pistols are expensive. For a ten man squad in a pod, equipped as you say and without the chappy, I could get a WG TDA squad with more firepower, almost as much survivability vs everything, and equal CC potential- wich is to say theyd be stronger or weaker depending on the target. And I find GHs more efficient for their points than WG.

 

I think that you underestimate SW DP lists, and Im still myself confused how BA DP lists are viable as opposed to say descent of angels lists with DP support.

[Lord Ragnarok]

I know that this isn't the rules forum, but the all drop pod army might actually be impossible. I know about special rules for dedicated transports, and the units in them - but you have to have a HQ somewhere, and most of them cannot take a Drop Pod by themselves. Say you put Pedro in a pod with 10 sterngaurd. The Sterngaurd and the drop pod count as one unit, and don't count as a unit (in terms of "half your army" since they MUST start in reserve), but it seems to me that Pedro would HAVE to be balanced by a unit starting on the board...

 

Like I said, I am not trying to start a big rules debate, but (unless I am missing something), this whole thread might be moot.

You can reserve 50 percent of your force rounding up. So that will allow you to field all drop pod units and one HQ attached to one of the. If you wanted a second HQ they would have to deploy normally.

[Grey Mage]

I know that this isn't the rules forum, but the all drop pod army might actually be impossible. I know about special rules for dedicated transports, and the units in them - but you have to have a HQ somewhere, and most of them cannot take a Drop Pod by themselves. Say you put Pedro in a pod with 10 sterngaurd. The Sterngaurd and the drop pod count as one unit, and don't count as a unit (in terms of "half your army" since they MUST start in reserve), but it seems to me that Pedro would HAVE to be balanced by a unit starting on the board...

 

Like I said, I am not trying to start a big rules debate, but (unless I am missing something), this whole thread might be moot.

You can reserve 50 percent of your force rounding up. So that will allow you to field all drop pod units and one HQ attached to one of the. If you wanted a second HQ they would have to deploy normally.

I usually alleviate this issue by taking landspeeder typhoons- good all around firepower, and they are better deployed behind terrain and then popping out to wreck faces/light vehicles as needed.