Is DW and RW it?

[Lord Morgrim]

Looking throught the the army list forum it is difficult to find a DA list that isnt either DW or RW...i understand thisd is what differentiates Dark Angels from other Marines but doesn anyone use a classical plasma heavy DA list anymore?

[Ronin_eX]

Basically, using the current codex, if you use a lot of battle company stuff (Tactical, Devastators, Assault Marines) then you are handicapping yourself. You see, when the vanilla Space Marine codex came out, all of our bread and butter battle company units were discounted in their book through various means. This has led many to rightly surmise that our basic green-marines are overcosted (especially things like Assault Squads) in comparison to other forces for no real upside (even vanilla marines get combat tactics). The only units that don't look over costed are Deathwing (reasonably priced next to vanilla stuff, especially in 6th Edition), Ravenwing (they are a bit bloated and over-specialized as DS-beacons, but they do well enough) and some of our vehicles (but not many). Thus the current practice tends to be to run Deathwing, Ravenwing or Doublewing and try to avoid Greenwing units as much as you can.

 

Hopefully the next codex sorts this out and gives us effective battle company units again.

 

Edit - And so as not to sound all doom and gloom. The Deathwing are popular because they are actually really good right now. First, we are one of the few Chapters to have cheap access to the Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield which is the loadout of choice for crushing things in melee. Second we can mix heavy weapons in (which is great with the above since our CML is currently a bit cheaper than standard). Next, in 6th Edition 2+ saves are wonderful to have since most power weapons got hit with a nerf bat and now only function at AP3. In addition to the above Belial is really, really efficiently costed compared to a Captain with the same TH/SS loadout (about 45 points less or so) and allows you to take a banner (which is great) and an Apothecary (which is also great). This allow you to field a Deathwing squad with a banner and Apothecary alongside Belial. They will toss out 25 S8/AP2 attacks on the charge and have a 2+/3++/FNP5+ save profile. And compared to a unit that can strike hard like that they will tend to be very well priced in comparison. The only big downside is that they can only take five guys per squad. But right now a lot of DW armies are around because they are actually a good choice.

[Droma]

Not to mention with the new allies rules you can take your standard C:SM army led by librarian and attach Belial and the deathwing or Sammy and the Ravenwing and still have an army that looks and feels very DA.

 

Edit: The other thing is when you look at lists in the army list section most people are looking to either A) make a more competitive list using the DA codex or ;) make a themed list using the DA codex. Both of these tend towards some form of either deathwing or ravenwing list.

[Tanhausen]

Solid replies yo got there :lol:

 

Our power armoured guys really don't make the cut when compared to other codex. BA have better assault troops, SW better troops/HS and...that's it :P Even the veterans with the special rounds in the UM codex...

 

Anyhow, MANY people play with PA units just for fun.

 

For me, the real downside of DW is that terminators have to fulfill what usually are self-exclusive roles: capturing objectives AND doing the killing.

 

If we had troop scouts DW would get SUCH a big change...

 

At the 2k mark, you usually carry 15-25 terminators...and usually 6 bikes (non scoring) along with some speeders/dreads/whatnot vehicles.

 

That mean that you effectively present somewhere around 8 targets...and with the MSU proliferation in 5th, you simply can take on a 8 vs 20 targets.

 

I take down your LR (to say something) and I devote all of my shooting to that...hey, you got 12+ more units to shoot at me. And if you avoid the CC, my terminators are out int he open...chasing the butterflies.

 

I'm really really excited about the new codex, lets see how it turns out :)

[march10k]

Yep, I still play green DA using the DA codex. By avoiding the lure of all of the expensive sexy stuff and fielding mainly plasmariffic ten man tactical squads and a lascannon dev squad (point-and-kill a vindicator per turn!), I put more marines on the table than most people expect, and then my plasma rips up those sexy choices (like death company and thundewolf cav) just as easily as it does a seventeen point marine, with the effect that, yes, my basic marines are overcosted relative to C:UM basic marines, but because I don't go overboard on even-more-overcosted cool-guy units, I'm actually relatively more points-efficient than most of my MEQ opponents.

[FerociousBeast]

I'm still solid Greenwing (and not Green Marines), with Deathwing and Ravenwing only as support to my main list. However, I don't do the army list thing anymore, so you won't see me posting any genius combinations up for review.

[EPK]

I'm still solid Greenwing (and not Green Marines), with Deathwing and Ravenwing only as support to my main list. However, I don't do the army list thing anymore, so you won't see me posting any genius combinations up for review.

 

Gosh, well now I want to see your lists.

 

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You can take advantage of some little things like the fact that DA tacticals can take a special weapon even if they only have 5 men as opposed to their C:SM counterpart which needs the full 10. At 10 men, C:SM gets the advantage as all of their upgrades are cheaper (some free). But depending on how you want to play, a couple 5-man squads supporting each other (in razorbacks) can work out well as opposed to one 10 man.

[FlamingDeth]

I'm still solid Greenwing (and not Green Marines), with Deathwing and Ravenwing only as support to my main list. However, I don't do the army list thing anymore, so you won't see me posting any genius combinations up for review.

That's it for me too. I'm mostly green with some Typhoon speeders for my RW, one of the things we get cheaper than regular marines, and Belial with a command squad, since despite being a command squad they're still troops and nearly invulnerable with save stacking these days. It's worked out pretty well so far.