6th edition plasma vs melta.

[irwit]

Hi all

 

Quick question on peoples opinions. I asked a similar question last year but in light of 6th I thought I would ask the same question, what do people think is the preferred weapon of choice in 6th, plasma or melta? I would of thought plasma in light of tanks getting a bit of a nerfing but what do you guys all think?

[lhg033]

i think vulkan armies will still roll melta due to his rules but many others will change for plasma or even flamers (possibly vulkan again) as charge deterents vs horde armies. flamer and combi flamer on sergeant will put a lot of units off charging, especially if they get to re-roll to wound with vulkan.

[Raven Angel]

Didn't we just do this acouple of months back?

[dswanick]

My opinion - Against AV<13 and range > 6": Plasma is statistically better at damaging vehicles and troops than Melta.

I don't want my Grey Hunter (Tac) squads within 6" of vehicles, especially AV13/14 vehicles. I have Lascannons, Missile Launchers, and Fast Multi-meltas to deal with AV13/14. So I almost always take Plasma, but I did that even in 5th Ed. It just gotten better for me with 6th Ed.

[irwit]

Didn't we just do this acouple of months back?

 

Yeah but this is for 6th edition :P

 

I'm definitely leaning towards plasma for general. Is melta stiff good against high toughness for instant kill? Ie nids and such ?

[dswanick]

Didn't we just do this acouple of months back?

 

Yeah but this is for 6th edition :P

 

I'm definitely leaning towards plasma for general. Is melta stiff good against high toughness for instant kill? Ie nids and such ?

T4 is the only difference, with Melta IDing and Plasma not. Other than that the Melta only has a +1 chance to Wound T6-T9, but Plasma makes up for this with more chances (longer range, more shots).

[irwit]

Didn't we just do this acouple of months back?

 

Yeah but this is for 6th edition :P

 

I'm definitely leaning towards plasma for general. Is melta stiff good against high toughness for instant kill? Ie nids and such ?

T4 is the only difference, with Melta IDing and Plasma not. Other than that the Melta only has a +1 chance to Wound T6-T9, but Plasma makes up for this with more chances (longer range, more shots).

 

but T4 is probably more than half the troops for the available armies in 40k so that's not a small thing. So a marine commander can be 1 timed by a good melta shot still in 6th?

[Azekai]

So a marine commander can be 1 timed by a good melta shot still in 6th?

It is highly unlikely, given 'Look out, Sir' saves.

I don't really see the appeal of plasma, personally- it's more expensive, with the added bonus of boiling your own troops at the least opportune moment.

The only real reason to move toward plasma would be due to a meta-shift as people take less vehicles in 6th . . . but until that happens I am gonna be running meltas.

[TennisBall]

Interestingly the Dark Angels minis in the new boxed set only have plasma weapons as special weapons.

[dswanick]

Didn't we just do this acouple of months back?

 

Yeah but this is for 6th edition :lol:

 

I'm definitely leaning towards plasma for general. Is melta stiff good against high toughness for instant kill? Ie nids and such ?

T4 is the only difference, with Melta IDing and Plasma not. Other than that the Melta only has a +1 chance to Wound T6-T9, but Plasma makes up for this with more chances (longer range, more shots).

 

but T4 is probably more than half the troops for the available armies in 40k so that's not a small thing. So a marine commander can be 1 timed by a good melta shot still in 6th?

However, ID doesn't affect most T4 troops (most of whom have 1 Wound nad no FNP). The majority of T4 multi-wound models is limited to Orks and Tau with some Space Marines ICs (who will all LO,S!) and Tyranid models here and there.

[old git]

Given the boost to 2+ saves (power weapons etc, terminator/artificer armour) I think we'll see a resurgence of the terminator in general. Counter this with plasma rapid fire/blast weapons. I think we'll see a shift towards plasma but that's not to discount the effect melta has on vehicles.

[DarkGuard]

I don't really see the appeal of plasma, personally- it's more expensive, with the added bonus of boiling your own troops at the least opportune moment.

The only real reason to move toward plasma would be due to a meta-shift as people take less vehicles in 6th . . . but until that happens I am gonna be running meltas.

 

Gets Hot really shouldn't be a major factor in considering whether to take plasma or not. Sure it's a little scary, but with a 3+ armour save you're most likely going to shrug it off

 

And I've long liked plasma, it makes Tactical squads especially dangerous. A standard MEQ fears plasma more than melta due to the RoF, and that's why I prefer it. And with HPs it's become the perfect in between weapon, with anti-infantry through RoF, anti-Elite through profile and anti-tank through glancing to death. I'll always try to fit one unit with a combi-plasma and plasma gun if I can, because it's such a useful weapon.

[ShinyRhino]

Gets Hot really shouldn't be a major factor in considering whether to take plasma or not. Sure it's a little scary, but with a 3+ armour save you're most likely going to shrug it off

 

And I've long liked plasma, it makes Tactical squads especially dangerous. A standard MEQ fears plasma more than melta due to the RoF, and that's why I prefer it. And with HPs it's become the perfect in between weapon, with anti-infantry through RoF, anti-Elite through profile and anti-tank through glancing to death. I'll always try to fit one unit with a combi-plasma and plasma gun if I can, because it's such a useful weapon.

 

I agree. My opponents might chuckle a bit when I overheat on a plasma weapon, but less so when I make the armor save. Even less so when I end up with 3-4 plasma hits total on their MEQ unit after a volley. The majority of 2+ armor units in the game right now are face-beaters, the kind of units you don't want within 12" of you for more than a turn, or they'll smash you flat. Melta will give you one shot, and one casualty. Plasma doubles that potential against Elite-level infantry, and also adds shots from 24 inches out.

Instant Death is less useful now due to the way wounds are allocated in 6th. Folks aren't charging forward with the 2+ armor save IC at the head of the unit. They stand a rank or so back, and let a couple choice grunts take the majority of saves. This is especially true with MEQ armies, which plasma and melta are most useful against. Small arms don't affect Marine line troopers as effectively as other armies, so you can eat a lot of small arms if the opponent forces those saves first.

 

The truth of the matter is: mix it up. you have enough units in a Marine army that you can mix and match your armaments. There's no law saying that if you take plasma on one unit, you have to take plasma on every unit.

[E. Severus]

I'm personally having a lot of fun sticking more plasma in.

 

But no complete lack of melta though: say my sterny suicide squads will now instead of 4x melta, more get sthing along the lines of 2xPlasma/2x Melta.

 

Tactical, Assault & Grey Hunter squads all run fully plasma, backed up by a lascannon if possible.

 

 

Personally the best type of troop choice is (combined with some cloaked scouts) 10 man, either ASM or Ghunters, backed up by a priest.

Move up, shoot the plasma (& bolters, if any), then flat out the rhino in front so they can't be seen

 

 

Strangely enough, I don't field as many plasma cannons anymore. Vindicators/Allied Medusas seem to be taking good care of that job.

[maturin]

I think plasma has gotten a bit of a boost in 6th, for the reasons others have stated already. But in the end, it's not about which is better - it's about your armylist and its capabilities. You need ways to deal with both light & heavy armor, however you want to do that.

 

Rather than discuss this in the abstract, let's talk specifics. For instance, what are the options available to a unit (say a tac squad) - do you take a plasma gun vs meltagun? Plasma cannon vs multimelta? All serve different purposes, and have different ranges. It may be best to have a plasma gun paired up with a multimelta due to their equal ranges, for instance, rather than a meltagun/multimelta or plasmagun/plasma cannon combination.

 

Neither is "better". Use both.

[Ming]

I'm finding I'm using plasma guns whenever possible...tactically it is a very important tool, and the more the merrier. And worth the risk. I'm not using plasma on guardsment, but on terminators or worse. The risk of losing a marine 1/18th or so of the time for each shot (18 points) is worth the target (40+ points). And for those who appreciate the sentiment, plasma guns don't have melta gun luck.

[irwit]

Been thinking of the number involved here. I think when running marines, you are paying 75pts(ish) for a 5 man squad followed by a further 5pts for melta or 10 for plasma ( again both ish).

 

So percentage wise its 7% ( 5pt difference) for an extra high strength ap2 shot at longer range. 7% extra cost for 100% more output at longer range is no seeming for me a no brainer :P

[Henricus Divis]

I run both meltagun and plasmagun tac squads, sure you have to get close with a meltagun to ensure a vehicle kill but when you do, and it wipes out your opponents toughest unit it just makes the waiting that much sweeter :D

[Captain Idaho]

Ha, I never concentrated my armies with Melta weapons in the first place, since I realised over reliance of them ends up stunting you tactically. Plasma is now more useful for objective focussed Troops choices there to support the attack, so now I have 2 of them without fail in my Tactical squads. Melta weapons still exist in my army, just like they always did, in a ratio of 2-1 (Plasma guns-Melta guns).

[VoteForPedro]

I've started using Plasma more in my Tactical Squads, not from any great meta change as a result of 6th edition but more out of irritation that melta guns always seem to be out of range ;)

[Brother Captain Andrew]

I think at this point Plasma is the king for most situations. The plasma's higher rate (2v1) of fire and longer range makes it superior for a shooting focused squads, plasma's always been good against infantry but the change to vehicle damage makes plasma great versus light armor in addition meaning it is better against more targets.

 

Melta shares many of the same targets now, but only really outshines plasma in hunting heavy armor or in a squad designed to be assaulting so that they can get that high strength shot and then charge.

[dswanick]

Melta ... in a squad designed to be assaulting so that they can get that high strength shot and then charge.

Of course, a Plasma Pistol has the same range, nearly the same S and AP bonus and allows for +1A in conjunction with other CCWs. Making even this choice a sometimes difficult prospect, although more weighted in Meltas favor.

[Ming]

I agree...plasma certainly has an expanded importance in lists, especially plasma guns. I'm seeing some opponents in total plasma spam mode at this time...

[Kinzel]

I don't think I've got a formula for it but looking at my marines (BA) I've found all my tacticals have a plasma gun and some variation of heavy, all my 10man assault squads (JP) have twin melta and either a handflamer or plasma pistol and my 5man assault have a flamer and normally a plasma pistol.

 

So it seems my squads are:

stand and shoot - all for the plasma

general purpose + charge - melta

anti-horde / countercharge - flamer