ryanmcc Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Hello all, Been a very long time since I've been on but with 6th out now I'd like to jump back into the web-community portion of 40k and get the thoughts from the internet. One of my close friends has moved back into the area and we have been able to play some games of 6th. Him and I are complete opposite ends of the spectrum when it comes to gaming, he is the power gamer and I am the story gamer. During a discussion we had he changed my views on some of the units I used in an effort to be more competitive. He is a very good, strategic gamer but he blew my mind with a few opinions he had and I wanted to run a few of the ideas across you guys and see what you thought. -He said if he were to build a BA list it would be the tri-raven list because of flyers being strong -landspeeders are useless because of being over costed (I love love land speeders) -Mephiston isnt worth his points (could be my poor use of him as i never took him before. My friend plays necrons and small chaos list, and meph has always died from tons of rapid fire plasma, scarabs swarms, etc) -death company should never take jump packs (because of cost and rhino/drop pod alternative much better for points) -chaplains should never be taken (because you can get 3-4 more dc for his points and his rules arent needed) -He said he would always take 2 libbys as hq's, always My other friends that I game with play just like I do and our terribly fluffy lists are equally poor when it comes to competitiveness so it's usually not an issue. For my friends sake i would like to build a list or two that he can enjoy playing and present him with a challenge. This board has been a lot of help so far but these few topics havent been answered yet that I can find. Thanks so much, -Ryan Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259906-marine-unit-usefulness/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallas Drake Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Tri-Raven list? At what points level!? Not sure I'm seeing that one in 6th. Fair point on Libs being best HQs & DC Jump Packs being over costed, but that's hardly a 'competitive' level of understanding. Bikes > Speeders but that doesn't mean they don't have their uses; honestly, has this guy read the rules? (*hint, the bit that says they can DS & fire both weapons & get a 5+ save). Stick to your fluffy lists & have fun. If you really want good C&C on one of your lists then just post it up :P - Dallas Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259906-marine-unit-usefulness/#findComment-3162314 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Res Ipsa Loquitur Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 - Flyers are strong, for sure. So strong that they should always be the focus of a list? No. - Land Speeders aren't useless, but an Attack Bike can do anything a LS can do (bar Deep Strike) and costs less. - Strongly disagree. - You can't charge on the turn you disembark from a Drop Pod or Rhino. DC with JPs are expensive but they're also awesome. - I disagree, but it's situational. - Only if one of those Librarians is Mephiston. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259906-marine-unit-usefulness/#findComment-3162315 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanmcc Posted August 30, 2012 Author Share Posted August 30, 2012 -Dallas He was thinking 'Ard Boyz, thats what, 2250? something in that range. I feel like his point was more take as many ravens as you can lol he may have said 3 of them in jest. He has read the rules, he doesnt have much faith in deep striking because of what can go wrong. He prefers to have control over every move he does and know exactly what is going to happen rather than to drop and pray. I love it though haha He deepstrikes his lash of submission terminators but only on the safest point of the battlefield with multiple options to lash so very little can go wrong. -Res I usually dont like taking special characters, i just dont feel meph is going to come down and help me in my 1500 pt list mission lol All ive read is how beefsteak meph is and EVERYBODY takes him so I gave him a few tries. It's his lack of invulnerable that gets him killed. I try and throw him at my friends tac marines, because he is useless against terminators now. But then I get combi-plasma and plasma gunned in the face. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259906-marine-unit-usefulness/#findComment-3162324 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Res Ipsa Loquitur Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Fair enough, I wouldn't take Mephiston at 1500 either but then again I wouldn't take two HQs at 1500 either. EDIT - Three 'Ravens at 1500 is insanity. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259906-marine-unit-usefulness/#findComment-3162333 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Hello all, Been a very long time since I've been on but with 6th out now I'd like to jump back into the web-community portion of 40k and get the thoughts from the internet. One of my close friends has moved back into the area and we have been able to play some games of 6th. Him and I are complete opposite ends of the spectrum when it comes to gaming, he is the power gamer and I am the story gamer. During a discussion we had he changed my views on some of the units I used in an effort to be more competitive. He is a very good, strategic gamer but he blew my mind with a few opinions he had and I wanted to run a few of the ideas across you guys and see what you thought. He's talking butt-burps and net-farts... -He said if he were to build a BA list it would be the tri-raven list because of flyers being strong Thats a good way to potentially not see 700pts of your army till turn 4 and very situational. Especially the problems of flyers overrunning their targets and not being very manouvreable after they've come on? -landspeeders are useless because of being over costed (I love love land speeders) Situational, Speeders are similar but slightly different to Attack bikes - and can be very good. I get good results from mine for example, against varied enemy lists. -Mephiston isnt worth his points (could be my poor use of him as i never took him before. My friend plays necrons and small chaos list, and meph has always died from tons of rapid fire plasma, scarabs swarms, etc) Yes, Meph can be killed - learn waht dangers are on teh battlefield and avoid/nulify them - use of cover means his plasmaguns cant target you, Wings of Sang and a charge means he gets mayeb 4 plas shots at you, only hitting on 6's due to snap shot and then 3's to wound - that wont kill Meph, then you kill him in CC. A priest nearby giving FNP will also help Meph survive... -death company should never take jump packs (because of cost and rhino/drop pod alternative much better for points) As already mentioned - DC with Jump Packs can be very good, but as usual with our Codex, you can spend too many points on them and then the rest of your list suffers... -chaplains should never be taken (because you can get 3-4 more dc for his points and his rules arent needed) An elite chaplain in a small DC (again - keeping th eoverall cost of the unit low) will increase the worth of any upgrades you have paid for in the unit (more kills from those power swords and Axes for example). In a tournament you may find it useful to be able to make another unit fearless (guaranteeing that it will stand its ground on an objective unless they're all dead for example). -He said he would always take 2 libbys as hq's, always In that case, say hello to my friend Mr Runepriest or Farseer or Tyranids... Now try casting stuff! 2 Libs can be good, but can both be shut down by the same enemy unit - a different HQ can be useful sometimes - Sanguinor's +1A for example makes that DC and chaplain even more horrendous, and can make several other units the equivalent to C:SM veterans. My other friends that I game with play just like I do and our terribly fluffy lists are equally poor when it comes to competitiveness so it's usually not an issue. For my friends sake i would like to build a list or two that he can enjoy playing and present him with a challenge. This board has been a lot of help so far but these few topics havent been answered yet that I can find. Thanks so much, -Ryan Just some thoughts i had... enjoy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259906-marine-unit-usefulness/#findComment-3162380 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ushtarador Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 I actually agree with most of his points, except: - 3 stormravens are too much, but 2 in a 2000 pts list are very strong - Mephiston certainly is worth his points on 1850+, the guy is a fire magnet and still hits damn hard against anything not terminator. I find having 2 libbys very awesome, even if you dont up them, you got yourself reroll to hits and a fast, strong melee hitter for just 125 pts. ASM with rerolls are very strong on the charge and can deal with many things they usually don't. The fact that 3 armies can shut that power down about half the time isn't enough of a drawback, especially if 2 of those don't really pose a threat. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259906-marine-unit-usefulness/#findComment-3162413 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pascalnz Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 hehe I've been playing a tri raven list in tourneys for the last year and came in the top ten each time[now number 5 in New Zealand, whatever that means:P] now in sixth they are even better. I had to change my list but I didn't take out the ravens. In fact I gave them hurricane bolters. Crazy arse lists are fun and it's seat of the pants stuff the whole way through. If your not going to put the time in though , you may get expensively$$ burnt. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259906-marine-unit-usefulness/#findComment-3162420 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanmcc Posted August 30, 2012 Author Share Posted August 30, 2012 Im liking the feedback its all much appreciated. So... dont take mephy in low points. DC and chap are good but be careful theyre not a sinkhole Speeders arent useless, just maybe not as good as bikes and situational I'll be keeping this in mind when im building a list vs him. -Ryan Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259906-marine-unit-usefulness/#findComment-3162467 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominicJ Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Tri Raven is very expensive, but if they turn up on time, effective, if they dont turn up on tuime, or the enemy has a massive amount of infantry and S6 shooting, your dead. (Think lots of Plasma Gun / Las Cannon guard squads, in ruins) Speeders are not expensive, 60pts gets you a multi melta. Three, turbo boosting into the enemy DZ on turn one are a threat that cant be ignored, especialy if the enemy has a land raider / monolith / baneblade type situation. I agree on DC, although jumpy DC can be fun. Chappies, I dont take chappies, but I do take reclusiarchs. Those 9 drop pod DC with three fists rerolling hits and wounds is, impressive. I dont take libbies, but thats just me Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259906-marine-unit-usefulness/#findComment-3162477 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Res Ipsa Loquitur Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Im liking the feedback its all much appreciated. So... dont take mephy in low points. DC and chap are good but be careful theyre not a sinkhole Speeders arent useless, just maybe not as good as bikes and situational I'll be keeping this in mind when im building a list vs him. -Ryan DC are good and Chaplains can be good. As with so much in 40k, whether you take a Chaplain or not depends on what else is going on in your list. Generally speaking I find it hard to find an Elite slot to fit a Chaplain into most of my lists. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259906-marine-unit-usefulness/#findComment-3162523 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mordenkenain Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Generally speaking I find it hard to find an Elite slot to fit a Chaplain into most of my lists. This is why Lemartes is good (though only if you want to stick your chaplain in with the death company obviously...) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259906-marine-unit-usefulness/#findComment-3162554 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darklighter Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Im liking the feedback its all much appreciated. So... dont take mephy in low points. DC and chap are good but be careful theyre not a sinkhole Speeders arent useless, just maybe not as good as bikes and situational I'll be keeping this in mind when im building a list vs him. -Ryan I've taken Mephiston in every game I've played (bar a few) since the new codex. In lists that range in points from 500 to 5000. I've not seen him let me down yet! I've had people play him against me and I've taken him down in a turn, it's all about how you use him. Now more than ever as he's lost his edge in Character combat not having AP2 weaponry. He is still however the beast he always was you just need to use him with finesse. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259906-marine-unit-usefulness/#findComment-3162582 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Your friend is offering suggestions, and leave it at that. TBH, most of his opinions seem to be from the internet. So take them with a pinch of salt. If he thinks that a tri raven list would be strong, then surely his chaos is maxing out on anti air stuff (as he is naturally playing a take all comers list)? In that case, don't take the flyers, as they will be shot down fast. If his army doesn't have much anti air, and you take 3 ravens. He will then: A) moan at you until you stop taking them or :tu: take so much anti air himself that taking them is pointless. Your bad luck with Mephiston is just that. Everything is the BA army is a scalpel. Mephy has the speed to not be in RF range. hide him behind a rhino/raider. Support him with a cover save and Feel no pain. he is not invincible. Some back of the envelope mathhammer suggests that it will take around 24 plasma gun shots to kill Mephiston, when he has a 5+ cover and FnP. (24 shots, 18 hits, 12 wounds, 4 saved by cover, 3 saved by FNP). This means two things: 1) Your opponent did well/you did really badly to get Meph in range of 12 plasmaguns at once. 2) Your opponent would have done better by nuking two assault squads instead of firing his entire army at Meph. Punish him for it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259906-marine-unit-usefulness/#findComment-3162957 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.