Joasht Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I wasn't sure if this was the right forum; I think I've never quite asked a fluff question :P I understand that the Fallen are Dark Angels that turned renegade during the Horus Heresy, but I'm curious about things like; 1) From my understanding, many went renegade but not Chaos; a) So, who/what do they serve? Trying to redeem themselves? Trying to mess up the Imperium? Still on the side of good but just not with the Imperium? ^_^ I also understand some might actually turn to Chaos; is it possible that: i) They turn to Chaos but remain tied to the DA in some way (e.g. iconography) ii) Would the Chaos-worshiping Fallen work with the neutral renegade Fallen, and vice versa? 2) Is it possible for DA to become Fallen after the Horus Heresy, e.g. being influenced by another Fallen? I'd imagine if they have some sort of perceived "higher calling" it might not be entirely impossible to convince loyalist DA to turn away from the Emperor, but I could be mistaken. 3) Chaos and loyalist Marines look quite a bit different. How different would a Fallen look? Still mostly loyalist? A mix of both? Depends on their alignment? 4) Where do I obtain more fluff (if any) outside of the DA codices? I'm sure there is some novel out there I haven't read. I'm interested in the context of the 41st millennium though. My thanks in advance guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Follow the Green Link in my sig labeled The Book of Salvation. I've tried to account for every known Fallen in 40k. Each of the references they come from (listed at the end), are the majority of books / short stories / comics that pertain to the Fallen. Hope this helps you out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joasht Posted August 31, 2012 Author Share Posted August 31, 2012 Thanks for the reply! Will look into them :D In the mean time, anyone want to give me a hand with the other questions of mine, please? ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 They are Chaos related. They were tricked by Chaos, which led to their demise. Now, some serve Chaos (Cypher being a vassal of Abaddon), some do what they want to do. And they are in the Chaos codex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ordo Machinum Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I wasn't sure if this was the right forum; I think I've never quite asked a fluff question THIS is the right forum! :) I understand that the Fallen are Dark Angels that turned renegade during the Horus Heresy, but I'm curious about things like;1) From my understanding, many went renegade but not Chaos; a) So, who/what do they serve? Trying to redeem themselves? Trying to mess up the Imperium? Still on the side of good but just not with the Imperium? Luther, their leader was definitely swayed by Chaos due to his pride and envy. He felt the Lion betrayed him and the other DA on Caliban from gaining any glory during the Great Crusade. Some Fallen also went to Chaos, serving whatever gods would have them, others may have resisited upon realizing how they were duped and serve no master but themselves, and still others attempt to fight the enemies of the Emperor while being hunted by their DA brethren. :D I also understand some might actually turn to Chaos; is it possible that:i) They turn to Chaos but remain tied to the DA in some way (e.g. iconography) ii) Would the Chaos-worshiping Fallen work with the neutral renegade Fallen, and vice versa? Mainly, they would want to keep a low profile, but then again they may want to flaunt their heritage and antagonize the DA. Either would probably serve the other if it served their interests. Then they may wish to eliminate each other when done. 2) Is it possible for DA to become Fallen after the Horus Heresy, e.g. being influenced by another Fallen? I'd imagine if they have some sort of perceived "higher calling" it might not be entirely impossible to convince loyalist DA to turn away from the Emperor, but I could be mistaken. Tempting as it is, the DA converted to the dark side after the Heresy are not Fallen. They still would be traiters, heretics, etc... and equally hunted by the Unforgiven! [3) Chaos and loyalist Marines look quite a bit different. How different would a Fallen look? Still mostly loyalist? A mix of both? Depends on their alignment? Entirely up to you. There is absolute room for personal interpretation here. Just remember, the Deathwing will be looking for them if they here of black armored DA marines fighting somewhere. 4) Where do I obtain more fluff (if any) outside of the DA codices? I'm sure there is some novel out there I haven't read. I'm interested in the context of the 41st millennium though. Gav's Angels of Darkness novel. The Horus Heresy novels concerning the DA may give some insight. The old articles from WD are mainly what has been covered in the codexes I believe. Except for the article during the Eye of Terror with Abbaddon and Cypher. Like the Imperium, however, all sources can be debated as truth or heresy. My thanks in advance guys! You're very welcome. Cheers, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nihm Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I wasn't sure if this was the right forum; I think I've never quite asked a fluff question :D THIS is the right forum! :P Obviously it is not, for experts on The Fallen, come to Chaos ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beachymike123 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 a really good book, as i have said many a time, about the Fallen is Eye of Terror by Barrington Bailey. it shows how one can be swayed by false information, as well as giving insights into perspectives etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ordo Machinum Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 THIS is the right forum! :ermm:Obviously it is not, for experts on The Fallen, come to Chaos :lol: Think of it as a student exchange program, right? One soul, here's your student! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cypher 102 Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 They are Chaos related. They were tricked by Chaos, which led to their demise. Now, some serve Chaos (Cypher being a vassal of Abaddon), some do what they want to do.And they are in the Chaos codex. As with most things involving the Dark Angels it's not as cut and dried as that. Cypher has always had his own agenda and his alliance with Abaddon was probably just a means to an end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ordo Machinum Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 Yeah, plus I'm not too sure on the "vassal of Abaddon" thing. As I remember the story, Abaddon sort of suffered Cypher's presence and Cypher even killed one of Abaddon's tough guys in front of him. Cypher's job for Abaddon was luring the DA... D'uh! THAT's what he's best at anyway. Of course, it has been debated that the increased DA presence was more of a hindrance than a boon for Abaddon. Sadly, Cypher, although in the 3rd edition C:CSM, has vanished from subsequent editions. Maybe, he'll come back someday... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joasht Posted September 2, 2012 Author Share Posted September 2, 2012 I managed to get Angels of Darkness, and I must say it is a most intriguing read. I'm not done with the book yet, but it clearly shows that the Fallen make a pretty convincing argument for their cause. Although I must say; Astelan does come off as rather arrogant in a way...but I guess anyone would given his predicament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cactus Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 It's all lies! Heed not the words of the traitor and the faithless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kewl Imp Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 I won't spoil the ending But Gav makes a great point about half way through. Depending on the version of the story you beleive and your feelings on the matter. My thoughts: Luther in his arrogance and humiliation at being sent back to Caliban sulked until given a honest reason to fight back. The destruction of Caliban into the world it had become was too much to take. Having his "eyes opened" to this, he sought any means possible to save what remained of his beloved homeworld. Even if it meant killing the man he helped raise. Luther simply was swayyed to Chaos, end of story. Luther was the loyalist and Lion had betrayed but no one saw it but the people banished during the events early in the Horus Heresy(there is a book where El'Jonson sends back half the legion after a fight.) So it all comes down on how you view it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ordo Machinum Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 So it all comes down on how you view it. Thus it can be debated for another ten thousand years. That's why I do love some of GW's fluff. Now, I just can't wait to see if Cypher shows up in either the Chaos or Dark Angels 'dex. *praying to the Emperor for him to be in BOTH!* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Sergeant Bohemond Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 Nope, they are ALL traitors :woot: However, whether or not they are repentant, turned to Chaos, or consider themselves still loyal is completely different. Personally, I think Astelan was driven mad by guilt and decided that 'no, I am loyal, I must be, and if I am loyal, then surely it is Jonson who is the traitor. Yea, thats my story, and, ummm, im sticking to it'. Then when asked 'why and how was he disloyal' he went 'oh...ummm....well...you see its like this....' Over the HH series, I feel Astelan was just upset he was no longer in charge and he disliked Jonson. Im hoping Cypher turns up in the allies dex...for Guard and Chaos, and SM armies (bar GK and DA) along with Fallen Angels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lando The Archmagi Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 Now, I just can't wait to see if Cypher shows up in either the Chaos or Dark Angels 'dex. *praying to the Emperor for him to be in BOTH!* I'm starting a Fallen army myself and hope Cypher is in one of them for sure. Also hope they rewrite him so he can have his own army of Fallen DA rather than just a squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ordo Machinum Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 It would be nice to see him included, even if he was some type of Elite choice. He'd be covertly guiding the army as the second in command. Maybe make him a subsititute "sgt" for a veteran squad. Hm, the DA Company Veterans let you substitute a plasma pistol for a sgt's bolter or chainsword. Swap it for the chainsword? Nah. Maybe model the sgt shooting with a plasma pistol and holding the bolt pistol as if he's using it to pistol-whip an enemy (close-combat weapon?). [update: actually, if I'm not mistaken, he was an Elite entry in the 3rd Ed. Chaos codex] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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