Judaz Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Heya. I need this topic here to give me some hope or crush my dreams. In 5th I played a small Dreadlist, you know, 2 Furiosos, 2 DC Dreads, 3 HS Dreads. It wasn't really a good list, but at least I played .500 with it. Even my HS Dreads did some damage in CC. Everything I had was dangerous in CC, except for 2 Rhinos that is. Still, it was no problem for my opponent to kill off my Dreads with shooting. But if I could get my Dreads into CC i usually won. But now when we have the glorious 6th, it feels like my Dreadlist is dead and gone. Not only can my opponent shoot me to death, now he also kills my dreads in CC. Sure, hull points let you run around and hit stuff until you die, but the glancing death is to much for my poor Dreads. It has not gone well for my Dreads in 6th I can tell you. Have anyone had any luck with Dreads, or are they doing their best on the shelf, looking awesome? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother_Angelus Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Furioso still have some worth, atleast AV13 saves them from the indignity of getting krak'd open in combat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appiah4 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Heya. I need this topic here to give me some hope or crush my dreams. In 5th I played a small Dreadlist, you know, 2 Furiosos, 2 DC Dreads, 3 HS Dreads. It wasn't really a good list, but at least I played .500 with it. Even my HS Dreads did some damage in CC. Everything I had was dangerous in CC, except for 2 Rhinos that is. Still, it was no problem for my opponent to kill off my Dreads with shooting. But if I could get my Dreads into CC i usually won. But now when we have the glorious 6th, it feels like my Dreadlist is dead and gone. Not only can my opponent shoot me to death, now he also kills my dreads in CC. Sure, hull points let you run around and hit stuff until you die, but the glancing death is to much for my poor Dreads. It has not gone well for my Dreads in 6th I can tell you. Have anyone had any luck with Dreads, or are they doing their best on the shelf, looking awesome? HS Dreads are still good if you use them as fire support. Multi-Melta, and TL Lascannon paired with a ML will work fine. Assault Cannon + Heavy Flamer will also be good. Furiosos with AV13 are still good. DC Dreads, Librarian Dreads and HS dreads in melee are now suicide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judaz Posted August 31, 2012 Author Share Posted August 31, 2012 I have actually found that Librarian Dreads work better in 6th, since most opponents can't stop him from using wings and might. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallas Drake Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 My DC dread out of a Storm Raven is still chewing stuff up. TBH Dreads weren't super amazing under 5th so I've seen little change in my games... - Dallas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Im confused by this - most vehicles /dreads are tougher to kill now. Sure, they can be glance-fracked to death, but theyre shooting and at full efficiency for longer. Have you been playing the dread list and finding this out, or just going on gut feeling? AP1/2 havent changed as far as damage result and AP3+ is worse at killing vehicles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appiah4 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Im confused by this - most vehicles /dreads are tougher to kill now. Sure, they can be glance-fracked to death, but theyre shooting and at full efficiency for longer. Have you been playing the dread list and finding this out, or just going on gut feeling? AP1/2 havent changed as far as damage result and AP3+ is worse at killing vehicles. The problem is that Dreadnoughts have all of a sudden become the worst CC units in the game. Most Dread-lists used to rely on Talon DC Dreads and stuff. Krak-glancing an AV12 walker to death can happen in one round of combat. So DC Dreads, Librarian Dreads and HS Dreads (that people could easily throw into a unit to tie them up before) have become suicidal units in assault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judaz Posted August 31, 2012 Author Share Posted August 31, 2012 Yeah, Mort I have tried and I have failed. Shooting i still the same, they still get killed by shooting, they may last a little longer due to hull points but as appiah5 said, in CC they suck big time. The way I played them before was very aggressive and I didn't care if they got assaulted. But now I have to run away with them. Run. Away. With a Dreadnought. No. But Appiah5, I still don't get why you think that the libby dread is worse than a regular furioso? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Try not playing against space marines and say that again. A lot of armies don't have kraks. Dreadnoughts are terrifying to those armies still! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appiah4 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 But Appiah5, I still don't get why you think that the libby dread is worse than a regular furioso? Because it can't take extra armor and has less S10 attacks, which to me is the whole point of taking a Furioso - It can instakill everything, and rip open any vehicle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Fury Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 How is a dread dying in 1 round of CC? A 10 man Meq squad gets 10 krack grenades attacks that only hit with 50%. Then the five that hit need a 6 to glance against av12. So you may be loosing 1 hull point a round on average. Right, or do I have something wrong here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdavid86 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Realistically dreadnoughts were simply brought in line along with all other vehicles. The only change that makes me field my Furioso less is the change to blood talons. AP 3 means they're less effective versus vehicles and can't munch terminators anymore. Shotgun Furioso (Furioso w/ frag cannon/heavy flamer in a drop pod) is still effective and my absolute favorite unit in 40k. Even better since people take less transport now :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 NO! YOUR 125PT DREADNOUGHT NOW LOSES TO A 250PT TACTICAL SQUAD IF THEY ROLL VERY FAR ABOVE AVERAGE! WE ARE ALL DOOMED!!!! Come on guys.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ushtarador Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 DC dreads rock the board with 6 attacks on the charge. Give them fists and you can even take out 2++ easily :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 But Appiah5, I still don't get why you think that the libby dread is worse than a regular furioso? Because it can't take extra armor and has less S10 attacks, which to me is the whole point of taking a Furioso - It can instakill everything, and rip open any vehicle. Not true. It has the same amount of S10 attacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darklighter Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Dreads have always been bad, they just look awesome! I do think this edition though makes for some awful close combats for dreads Anything with rending or grenades just kills them in a turn. I know I've seen the math and it's not supposed to be that easy, but in reality it happens far far to often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appiah4 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 But Appiah5, I still don't get why you think that the libby dread is worse than a regular furioso? Because it can't take extra armor and has less S10 attacks, which to me is the whole point of taking a Furioso - It can instakill everything, and rip open any vehicle. Not true. It has the same amount of S10 attacks. How come? The furioso has a pair of DCCWs granting it a +1A? So it's 2A for the Librarian but 3A for the Furioso? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitadelArmyGuy Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 DCCW are no longer specialist weapons or anything. The Libby dread gets +1 Attack for Force Weapon and Blood Claw. More attacks too if you take Might of Heroes (D3 more). Which makes sense because Librarian Furioso is finally better than a Furioso because it costs more. Extra Armor is rarely worth 15pts anymore-- Stunned is only 1/6 result on the penetrate table. So 1/6 you can downgrade a Stun to Shaken. I can think of better ways to spend 15pts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Dreads have always been bad, they just look awesome! I do think this edition though makes for some awful close combats for dreads Anything with rending or grenades just kills them in a turn. I know I've seen the math and it's not supposed to be that easy, but in reality it happens far far to often. Fiddlesticks - the maths is never a perfect guide to battlefield performance, and statistical freak rolls do happen but the thing is - they're freak rolls and should not and will not happen very often in the long term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 DCCW are no longer specialist weapons or anything. The Libby dread gets +1 Attack for Force Weapon and Blood Claw. The same was true in 5th. We got the bonus attacks and could pick which one to use. Not too sure about lib dreads though. They are very expensive and no longer provide a dispell bubble, half the reson to take them in 5th. Now you pay 50 pts for something that you can make a bit more killy in CC than a regular furioso. Havin run dreads aggressively in a couple of games now I think the most dangerous thing is getting glanced to death on your rear armor. There's still the usual anti tank things we had to worry about before, but rear AV glances have taken many more hull points off my dreads compared to krak grenades. Almost every unit have some sort of s4+ basic weapon even if they don't have high S grenades or dedicated AT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonet40k Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 Havin run dreads aggressively in a couple of games now I think the most dangerous thing is getting glanced to death on your rear armor. There's still the usual anti tank things we had to worry about before, but rear AV glances have taken many more hull points off my dreads compared to krak grenades. Almost every unit have some sort of s4+ basic weapon even if they don't have high S grenades or dedicated AT. Remember that attacks go against the walker's front armour still in CC unless they've been immobilised (Which is only a 1/6 chance off of a Penetrating hit), so rare nowadays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 Remember that attacks go against the walker's front armour still in CC unless they've been immobilised (Which is only a 1/6 chance off of a Penetrating hit), so rare nowadays. Shooting, not CC. They move around it and shoot the rear AV. Not super easy to avoid with a CC focus dread. Even if you can use grenades in CC most units would rather not charge a dread, if they can avoid it, since they will often strike at the same I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arryn Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 I usually run a Dantewing list at 1000pts, however our group has recently upped to 1500. I love dreads and to make up the points i have included a Furioso Lib with blood lance and shield of Sanguinius and 2 gun dreads as fire support. These guys are usually plonked out in the open with good visibility to enemy armour/heavy infantry; they do attract some fire which is mitigated by the shield of sang, but this only serves to help keep my Sang Guard alive a lot longer and subsequently have more impact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7 Mile Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 BA Librarian dreads are armor 13 front... How are people kraking them to death? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 BA Librarian dreads are armor 13 front... How are people kraking them to death? I don't think anyone is saying that? The discussion is about dreads in general and the AV13 ones compete with a lot of other popular units. If you field (ba) dreads in any number the majority will be AV12. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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