Ravenwing Assault Marines

[Faithwing]

Hello, brothers!

 

I'm new here, and just posted on the newcomers thread.

 

Now, on to the topic...

 

Ravenwing Assault Marines? Fits the speed theme, but may come up short on other fluffy fronts.

 

I know the fluff says its all bikes/land speeders, but what do you guys think about the idea? And I know our Assault Marines are a pretty bad deal, (until the new 'dex).

 

I'm mainly asking because I have a lot of the Ravenwing shoulder pads, and front torsos, and think they would look great on Assault Marines. Plus, Assault Marines are speedy.

 

On that note, what color scheme do you guys think? Straight up Ravenwing? Or maybe Caliban green armor, with a black Ravenwing shoulder pad? Maybe along with a black jump pack, decked out with Ravenwing bitz?

 

I personally think both of those schemes would look cool, but I'd like to see what the rest of the Unforgiven think!

 

Thanks for hearing me out, brothers.

[Slim]

Not for me, I am strictly about keeping Assault Marines as part of a regular Dark Angel company...

 

However, if you like the idea, then why not? It's your army, afterall.

[Isiah]

Not sure about Assault Ravenwing as I can't see they'd have access to the number of jump packs that would be required. But how about just equipping them as dismounted bikers or speeder crews armed with bolters or bolt pistols and chainswords? Add in a melta or plasma gunner, sarge with power fist or power weapon etc etc. The Attack bike gunner can carry his heavy bolter or multi-melta around.

 

But, they're your models so do as you like :yes:.

 

Cheers

I

[Bryan Blaire]

It doesn't really fit the current Ravenwing scouting outriders concept they have, however, I wouldn't put entirely past GW to turn the Ravenwing into a veteran Fast Attack of all kinds company in the next Codex.

[FerociousBeast]

The fluff nazi in me recoils at such a monstrous idea, but I'll admit I was hoping to see pictures in your post :yes:

 

I cannot recommend that you commit such heresy with the Ravenwing, but I would have no problem with you making a successor chapter that looks curiously similar to the Ravenwing... personally, if it were my idea, I'd go straight up Ravenwing, black armor with red weapon casings. It would look rather Black Templars-esque, I imagine, but you could mitigate that.

[Chaplain Lucifer]

ravenwing are primarilly scouts, the eyes and ears. Assault marines don't have the range, speed (even stealth) to be scouts, so IMHo doesn't fit the theme.

[Captain Semper]

RW is not only associated with speed (that could potentially justify other fast attack options incorporated in it such as assault marines) but also with the mechanical element. If a change was to take place in the profile of the RW I'd rather see other fast vechicles added (a flyer maybe? or another speeder variant?) rather than infantry -even if it is jump infantry.

[EPK]

I'm inclined to agree with everyone else - I feel some sort of elite RW SCOUT biker would be a better addition to the 2nd company (a twist on Wolf Scouts).

 

However, if GW did want to squeeze Vanguard into the Dark Angels Codex - perhaps this could be an avenue (though they could just add Vanguard/Sternguard options to Company Vets). They would be elite veterans of course and would give the RW some bite when they did have to take it to the enemy on their own (in the cases where stealth was no longer needed- but really, how much quieter is a bike compared to a pack?)... Perhaps a RW Vet squad that had the ability to dump bikes for packs. There is certain situations that bikes just can't go in my opinion, the notion that the RW, in their hunt for the fallen, never get off their bikes, seems odd.

 

EDIT - Semper does make a good point though, probably no need for more infantry. We can just assume that the times we are fielding RW in game are not the more specific small-scale (and rare) missions where a RW biker might have to leave his bike.

[Haranin]

So Ravenwing are scouts. They track a Fallen to an outpost, hive or cave. To confined for land speeders or bikes. Do they a. stay mount, take off their helmets and grab a smoke while waiting for the follow up forces while the Fallen escape or b. dismount to get as close as they can to see if they can achieve a capture alone or need backup?

 

Recon forces can be eyes and ears only, or active recon.

 

Why not have some dismounted ravenwing? I would limit them to the weapon options they have as bikers and speeders (i.e. could dismount the multimelta or heavy bolters; but no lascannons, missle launchers; standard special weapons).

 

Probably fluffier to have them be 5 man squads to.

 

their job isn't to stand and die or take a hard objective... their role is to raid, toss in a quick shock attack to see if the enemy can be panicked by the mere presence of space marines, or to observe.

 

Perhaps even model a few marines standing around holding the horses... err bikes.

 

i.e. like american civil war/WWI cav.

 

I fact, I like this idea so much, I'm adding a squad or two to my forces...

 

The 5 man squad chillin in the Storm Eagle will be drawn from the RW; and one foot squad.

[EPK]

@Haranin - I was thinking the same thing - though I don't think they are instructed to capture the Fallen themselves, just scope it out and call DW support. That said, what would be the point of this 5 man RW sqaud? How would they function any different than a 5 man tactical squad?

 

So, though they most certainly do get off their bikes at some point - I'm with Semper, making them glorified tactical marines in black adds nothing to the game. Fluff-wise sure, but this isn't always about fluff - someone can make some fan fiction and have RW don scout armor and track a Fallen through a thick jungle where their bikes just can't go...

 

Hell, Black Library could publish that story (though their would surely be haters) but in the end, if it's too redundant of a unit or in the case of my example, bitting off of Wolf Scouts completely, why have it in the DA army?

 

And if you think about it - what we are playing is a battle (either by itself or part of a large engagement). We aren't playing the scouting game and you can assume the RW have already done that job before the battle begins. For all we know another few squads of RW are off tracking that Fallen while you are causing a diversion by assaulting his lackeys.

 

Maybe make a RW "tactical" squad and play kill team matches with them. That would be more on par with how they may operate outside of a battle (if they need to leave their bikes).

[Augustus]

ravenwing are primarilly scouts, the eyes and ears. Assault marines don't have the range, speed (even stealth) to be scouts, so IMHo doesn't fit the theme.

 

Shrike of the Raven Guard takes offense ^_^

[xnickbaranx]

As everyone has pointed out, they wouldn't have Jump Pack troops. Ravenwing fill a very specific role in the DA army.

 

Yes, it is possibly to catch them off their bikes. One of the scenes in Purging of Kadillus involves Naaman's squad and Aquila's squad camped out in a ruined building and Orks get spotted on the scene. Of course, Naaman's Scouts engaged the Orks while Aquila and his bikers mounted up - they never actually do battle out of the saddle in that novel.

 

The next Gav Thorpe novel is called Ravenwing so I'm sure we'll get better insight into their use. However, as the gaming and fluff stand, the Ravenwing work in concert with either Scouts or Deathwing. In game play they range ahead and the Deathwing can come in on their Teleport Homers. In Purging of Kadillus the Scouts and Ravenwing worked in conjuntion. The Ravenwing Speeders and Ravenwing Squads range far ahead, working in patterns to identify suspicious areas. They would only engage enemy patrols if they had the upper hand. Instead they'd radio Scout Squads who would comb those areas, spread out to cover more ground more thoroughly, and who could also come in to support the Ravenwing Squad if they needed more man power. Both seem to create diversions for each other because of differing advantages and circumstances.

 

Personally, I want to have at least 1 or 2 squads of each Ravenwing, Deathwing, and Scouts so I can use them as described in Purging of Kadillus. I think that would be awesome.

[Interrogator Stobz]

I'm going to go against the flow here, any army that restricts itself for the sake of tradition is doomed to fail. What happens if the Fallen are in an area inaccessible to bikes? Just because our dex is restrictive you are not required to be. I would love to see a jump army using the BA rules painted in RW livery. To me bikes and jump packs are a marine delivery system, if you want to branch out for YOUR version of the DA or their successors you go for it.

My DA are very dex/fluff driven, no reason for anybody elses to be, unless they want it to be.

 

Who knows what the future holds too :)

[Brother-Sergeant Bohemond]

I say go for it!

 

Though they nearly always use Bikes, I can see when using something else would be more appropriate for the task at hand.

[pueriexdeus]

@Haranin - I was thinking the same thing - though I don't think they are instructed to capture the Fallen themselves, just scope it out and call DW support. That said, what would be the point of this 5 man RW sqaud? How would they function any different than a 5 man tactical squad?

 

So, though they most certainly do get off their bikes at some point - I'm with Semper, making them glorified tactical marines in black adds nothing to the game. Fluff-wise sure, but this isn't always about fluff - someone can make some fan fiction and have RW don scout armor and track a Fallen through a thick jungle where their bikes just can't go...

 

Hell, Black Library could publish that story (though their would surely be haters) but in the end, if it's too redundant of a unit or in the case of my example, bitting off of Wolf Scouts completely, why have it in the DA army?

 

And if you think about it - what we are playing is a battle (either by itself or part of a large engagement). We aren't playing the scouting game and you can assume the RW have already done that job before the battle begins. For all we know another few squads of RW are off tracking that Fallen while you are causing a diversion by assaulting his lackeys.

 

Maybe make a RW "tactical" squad and play kill team matches with them. That would be more on par with how they may operate outside of a battle (if they need to leave their bikes).

Just a quick observation: a five man RW Sqd can have 1XHW & 2XSW's. Lets go even more radical and dis-mount the entire 10 man Sqd = 2XHW's, 2X SW's. Hmmm, just a thought. Now of course their would need to be one or two left behind to guard the vehicles, but an eight man force with two Plasma Guns and two HB's would be nasty in a fire fight.

[Faithwing]

Wow! Thanks for all the feedback, guys.

 

I'm not really using fluff to dictate anything, and you guys bring up some pretty interesting points about the bikes.

 

It's mainly a matter of wanting the ability to run multiple types of lists. We got terminator and bike armies down fairly well. This is definitely our strength.

 

But the template provided is a Space Marine one. Running a list with a little Assault, Tactical, whatever might not be playing to our strengths (especially currently with our overpriced stuff), but it can be done to roughly the same effect as a vanilla 'dex (very roughly).

 

I'm not interested in branching out to other chapters who can do stuff better (Assault Squads = Blood Angels), because I like the Dark Angels too much. And this suggestion is definitely not a super competitive one. Just a fun one.

 

But again, the biggest reason is because I think Assault Marines would look pretty bitchin' in a Ravenwing modeling scheme. The colors, and particularly the Ravenwing emblem screams, "This is a no-nonsense Assault Squad!"

 

So on that note, what do you guys think would look cool? This is the question I'm struggling with. Green armor with black Ravenwing shoulder pads? Or just Ravenwing black and white all day? I'm also planning to use the Ravenwing comms heads (the one with the antenna and Ravenwing emblem on the forehead). The whole getup reminds me of a Ravenwing panic button... like, oh, crap, radio in that nearby rapid insertion force to deal with this NOW, so we can take cover and homer in the Deathwing. Of course you could view the Deathwing as a panic button in this scenario, but maybe the opposing force is very divided? Like a weapons team on top of a bastion, or just concentrated special weapons in multiple areas in addition to the bulk force you'd want the Deathwing to clean up. Which could pose more danger than normally to teleporting Deathwing squads.

 

Sorry for the overboard "What if's," but I'm just trying to provide very loose ways it might make some sort of sense. Again, loose is the key word here. Assault squads in Ravenwing aren't canon. They just aren't. But I'd like to flex a little for the sake of cool looking models, and more options for list building.

 

Rolling with the green armor, with just the Ravenwing black accents (shoulder pad, etc.), could LOOSELY justify itself fluff-wise, since maybe for a particular mission (AKA, the game I'm using them in), the Ravenwing sanctioned an Assault squad for super emergency back up. (Not that they need it, because the Dark Angels ARE Batman.)

 

The chapter the Imperium deserves, but not the one it needs right now!

[Brother Kovash]

Having a squad of Assault Marines kitted out with the same weapons that a RW squad could take seems to be a good idea. I agree that the jump packs should be used exclusively by the Assault Squads within the other companies.

[xnickbaranx]

I honestly think we should fight about this and destroy Caliban* in the process. Too many people going rogue here.

 

 

 

*Destroy it again, because really The Rock is Caliban, or at least a tiny chunk of it so we really didn't do a good enough job of destroying Caliban the first time anyway.

[elmo]

Advice from the "do your own thing" sort of guy that I am - I would go with a RW scheme as you want them to be obvious members of the RW.

 

Fluff wise I know of no justification for the RW to have jet packs but don't let that stop you :confused:

 

Don't forget the most important thing is that they are your plastic men so go with whatever you want.

[Artemid]

What happens if the Fallen are in an area inaccessible to bikes?

 

Land speeders and teleport homers. The entire point of the Ravenwing is that there are squads of Deathwing in orbit waiting for the exact moment the 2nd company informs them they have located their target, and boom! boots are accurately on the ground to engage in battle and capture. If you're talking about some crazy mad thick environment that neither can penetrate, I'm sure they'd still send in the 1st as close as possible and set up cordons and such.

 

Now, model wise, I think it would look neat and an 8 man squad with 2 heavy weapons and 2 specials is really, really neat sounding. But I don't think there's any fluff to support it. I also think jump pack Ravenwing would end up visually looking a lot like Raven Guard, too.

[GumbaFish]

I have no idea on the fluff but I think it would look awesome, I would paint them just as the ravenwing bikers. Black with that white emblem would indeed look nice along with some extra bits etc... to spruce them up I think they would look great.

[Interrogator Stobz]

What happens if the Fallen are in an area inaccessible to bikes?

 

Land speeders and teleport homers. The entire point of the Ravenwing is that there are squads of Deathwing in orbit waiting for the exact moment the 2nd company informs them they have located their target, and boom! boots are accurately on the ground to engage in battle and capture. If you're talking about some crazy mad thick environment that neither can penetrate, I'm sure they'd still send in the 1st as close as possible and set up cordons and such.

 

Now, model wise, I think it would look neat and an 8 man squad with 2 heavy weapons and 2 specials is really, really neat sounding. But I don't think there's any fluff to support it. I also think jump pack Ravenwing would end up visually looking a lot like Raven Guard, too.

I was thinking multi level hives and space hulks/structures, no room for vehicles and still a large need for going up and down. The galaxy is a BIG place, with lots of small places. :P

[elmo]

I was thinking multi level hives and space hulks/structures, no room for vehicles and still a large need for going up and down. The galaxy is a BIG place, with lots of small places. :no:

 

 

Maybe go for Ravenwing Scouts then ;)

 

I know a guy who did a RW LS Storm :devil:

[Brother-Sergeant Bohemond]

I was thinking multi level hives and space hulks/structures, no room for vehicles and still a large need for going up and down. The galaxy is a BIG place, with lots of small places. :no:

 

 

Maybe go for Ravenwing Scouts then ;)

 

I know a guy who did a RW LS Storm :devil:

 

In our new codex, I really want to see a squad of PA RW Vets in a Storm... I can really see the chance for a great expansion for our RW in the new codex.

[elmo]

Fingers crossed :devil: