Sternguard

[Taranis]

If you ally with Mr Cantor it appears we can field 40 scoring sternguard, 30 of which can gain fnp.

 

Am I right?

 

Cantors only faq entry is regarding his 12" +1 attack bonus.

 

True or false?

[skrikspya]

True as far as I read it.

 

Edit: BUt what decent list could you cook up with that?

[Emperors Immortals]

A massivly powerful one, go full l33t with SG or back up with RaS and DC for shock support. Sounds good in DP too :devil:

 

-edit- of course with bikes for fast support in the heavy fire dept.

[Nova_Dew]

Nope Erratta says friendlies from Codex:Space Marines

[Deschenus Maximus]

Nope Erratta says friendlies from Codex:Space Marines

 

Not for Hold the Line!

 

They clarified his Inspiring Presence, but not the above. Ergo, BA sternguards CAN be made scoring. Though I wouldn't be surprised if they FAQ that away.

[Bradley Powers]

You're right, I've been painting up a bucket of Sternguard because of this. If and when they FAQ this, I'll change this, but for now, all Sternguard in your army are scoring, so long as you only use Kantor's chapter tactics. It would seem that since Chapter tactics is involved, it would preclude BA sternguard, but it does not. So long as Kantor's Chapter Tactics is used (and not, say, Vulkan's, or whatever) then All Sternguard gain Hold the Line, making them scoring.

 

My army list plan is:

 

Astorath

 

Libby

 

Corbulo

 

Sternguard

 

Death Company in pod

 

DC Dread in pod

 

 

SM Allies:

 

Kantor

 

Sternguard

 

Sniper Scouts

 

 

I think it'd be a tough list to fight. I run a Libby and Corbulo in a Sternguard unit in my normal army, and it works incredibly well. An entire army of scoring Sternguard is borderline scary!

[CitadelArmyGuy]

Another thread which supports the idea of Drop Pods as awesome? Hmm may need to buy more than just the one I already own.

 

The fact that in the past, your opponent could go fully-reserved to avoid the worst of your damage dampened Drop-Pod heavy lists. Now that you can only reserve "1/2 round-up" means Drop Pods with shooty-occupants became better.

[Daybreak]

I've been thinking about Kantor the last little while, thanks to this thread. I've tried to draw up a couple of lists, but even after I get the units right, I run out of points quickly. This may seem obvious, but I think the Sternguard are just too pricey.

 

10 Sternguard with no upgrades are 250 plus transport. That's 80 points more than a tactical squad (with no upgrades), so you're paying 80 points for special issue ammo. With three Sternguard squads (2 BA, since you need Priests, and 1 Crimson Fists), that's 240, plus 175 for Pedro (who doesn't do much on his own) is 415 points for dudes with better bolters.

 

Is that worth it? Special issue ammo is great for the poison shots, and somewhat for the AP3 (mitigated by cover). I don't even know what the others do. I guess that's the question: pay the 415 point tax to wound on a 2+, or stick with Tacticals, get more shots, and wound on 4+...

 

I love the model for Kantor, and like the CF fluff, but I just don't see him working without his other Fist buddy, Lysander.

 

Thoughts?

[mysteriousmaskedmystery]

they aren't just better bolters, they are still veterans, so you're getting a bonus attack and leadership, which VGV and HG pay about 5 points a model for.

[Taranis]

And Tycho is right up their alley.

[IK Viper]

I field a single Sternguard Squad of 7 in about half my games. the flexability of the ammo is great but the reason you take sternguard is for the combi weapons IMO. That first salvo after the sternguard pile out of their transport has to be devistating to make them effective. With precience and the new Gets Hot rules you reroll 1's to hit and it only gets hot if you roll a 1 again so the AP3 rounds are safer and super accuarate if you run a Librarian with them. Also, scouts and anything with +1 to their cover save that go to ground to claim a 2+ cover save will die alot faster to sternguard then most anything else except flamers,

 

Not sre about running a whole sternguard army, but I like to have a squad in a rhino to flank the enemy and try and get at their back line objective setters and fire support elements. If I could make them scoring then that would be even better.

[Jorre]

My last game vs Tyranids My opponent was running a Tyrant with Iron arm psy power! On the first turn he rolled a 3 for it making him toughness 9! 10 Sternguard rapid firing 2+ poison removed 3 wounds before he could blink. My sniper scouts removed the last wound with a lucky rend!

 

I'm a big fan of Sternguard!

[Brynjolf Irontooth]

Just a question. I have never used Sternguard, but if the combis are the reason to take them, then why aren't you guys considering honour guard?

 

They come quite cheap (compared to SG), have the same stats, come with a free priest, and if you're not interested in the special ammo, but more in the plasma/melta shots, they can get it for more or less the same cost.

 

I think they definitely might be a good alternative when you're using them as droppod unit.

 

 

Greets,

BI

[IK Viper]

I like them alot too, I dont think they are really ment to form your battle line though, as they are to expensive to be used in a battle of attrition. try to position them in ways that allow their special ammo to really make a difference and you will not be disapointed.

 

A rhino full of sternguard and a librarian with (shield and rage) plus a 10 man JP RAS toting 2 MG and a MB is a very effective flank unit. The RAS can pop transports and then the sternguard rapid fire the contents at which point the RAS assault.

 

You want your stenguard shooting, so you normally will be rapid firing with them, the only down side is that they will get aassaulted the turn after they do, to counter this, I like to have a supporting unit to tie up/finish what they fire at. If you can't swing the points for another unit then taking a bunch of combi flamers can also make it easier for them to withstand an assault/stay disengaged so they can do what you took them for in the first place.

[Daybreak]

There's lots of good points in favour of the Sternguard, but not many in favour of, say, 30 of them. Just too pricey with the Kantor tax added on.

 

So, I think I'm going to run a SM Pod of 10 Sternguard plus Lysander instead. Give up scoring in exchange for Twin Linking, as well as the ability to combat squad and put my specials where I need them (6" from pod = awesome). Instead of Crimson Fist allies, I guess I'm going Imperial Fists.

[SnorriSnorrison]

I'm quite sure the only way to get 40 scoring Sternguard is to play a SM list over 2000 points with another FOC.

 

I think that the intention behind Kantor's 'Hold the line!' and the fact that all Sternguard in your army are scoring is that the allied troops from C:SM are an army for themselves.

1 squad of Sternguard from C:SM uses Kantor's chapter tactics instead of the normal ones, they are scoring. Blood Angels don't even have the option of replacing their chapter tactics and are drawn from a different codex anyway, therefore are treated as another army for the purpose of this rule.

 

 

My opinion on this matter, feedback or corrections are welcome. ;)

 

 

Snorri

[Daybreak]

Hold The Line says that Sternguard in your army are scoring, period. It doesn't say that they exchange Combat Tactics for anything - that's his other rule. Also, the SM FAQ specifically mentions that his +1A buff only works on SM models; it says nothing on Hold The Line.

[SnorriSnorrison]

Hold The Line says that Sternguard in your army are scoring, period. It doesn't say that they exchange Combat Tactics for anything - that's his other rule. Also, the SM FAQ specifically mentions that his +1A buff only works on SM models; it says nothing on Hold The Line.

 

Yes, I've read the FAQ. Don't have the codex on me, so forgive me my mistake regarding Combat Tactics.

 

Then, there's still the issue what counts as the army - both FOCs combined or only the allied FOC from C:SM, where I tend to believe that only the Sternguard chosen from C:SM are made scoring and are what is referred to as 'Sternguard in your army'. Makes sense, doesn't it? Kantor makes his veterans of the Crimson Fists scoring models, not the ones he's teamed up with by accident.

 

I think that's the intention behind that rule since Kantor is chosen from C:SM and only Sternguards chosen from C:SM should be made scoring by him.

 

 

 

Snorri

[IK Viper]

I agree with Snorri on this, you can twist words as much as you want... the intent is clearly to be for C:SM units only

[CitadelArmyGuy]

I agree with Snorri on this, you can twist words as much as you want... the intent is clearly to be for C:SM units only

Same old RAW versus RAI argument. Fluff players will use the restricted interpretation, and Tournaments will use RAW. No hard feeling were had by anyone ;)

[SnorriSnorrison]

I agree with Snorri on this, you can twist words as much as you want... the intent is clearly to be for C:SM units only

Same old RAW versus RAI argument. Fluff players will use the restricted interpretation, and Tournaments will use RAW. No hard feeling were had by anyone :lol:

 

Hard feelings? Hardly! (bad pun intended)

 

However I think it's not much of an RAW vs RAI argument because it's all down to the definition of one word that settles the argument. Once that 'army' is clarified as either both FOCs combined or every FOC counts as a single army because it's chosen from a different codex, we can settle that argument.

 

Until that, I'd say it's a simple point of fairness towards your opponent to not use RAW in this case. The advantage gained from this loophole is too big actually. Well unless both gamers are on the 'exploit ALL the rules' side, then it's probably fine.

 

 

Snorri

[IK Viper]

yes but at the end of the day dont you want to go home thinking to yourself... "I won today becasue I was the supperior general of my army," instead of "I won because I am a rules lawyer and found a loop hole to expliot (until an FAQ kills it)."

[himkano]

I would say that RAW and RAI are not in conflict here. I haven't built this army (although I played with the concept). If the FAQ skipped mentioning Pedro, the RAI people would have a case, but the FAQ mentioned him, and specified all of his rules only work on C:SM, except this one rule. They faq'd 2 of his rules, and then specifically left this one out... on accident? - I think that's kind of a stretch, despite GW's reputation for vague rules?

[Sviox]

I agree with Snorri on this, you can twist words as much as you want... the intent is clearly to be for C:SM units only

 

Me too. I think we have to consider "C:SM Sternguard" and "C:BA Sternguard" a different unit for all purposes, and that rule clearly refers to the first, not the latter.

[SnorriSnorrison]

I would say that RAW and RAI are not in conflict here. I haven't built this army (although I played with the concept). If the FAQ skipped mentioning Pedro, the RAI people would have a case, but the FAQ mentioned him, and specified all of his rules only work on C:SM, except this one rule. They faq'd 2 of his rules, and then specifically left this one out... on accident? - I think that's kind of a stretch, despite GW's reputation for vague rules?

 

I'm thinking likewise that RAW and RAI are not the primary conflict here. The FAQ didn't skip Pedro obviously, but it only mentioned the rules which could easily be bend into covering both armies, such as his +1 attack bubble rule in a similar way as it has been done to our Sanguinary Priests.

 

I don't think they left the rule out on accident, but on purpose. Its intention is clear so nobody, in GW's non-competitive view, would come up with the idea of making all Sternguard from all codizes scoring.

The stretch you mention is working in the other direction as well...think of it, before allies and 6th edition, Pedro 's Sternguard were made scoring because they are chosen from C:SM. Now, after introducing C:BA and the ally system, this rule all of a sudden expands to every other codex (namely C:BA) that has Sternguard in it? Certainly not by default and not after thinking about it twice. :mellow:

 

 

Snorri