Robes, Bibs, Tabards & Cloaks

[Brother Nemiel]

Greetings Brethren,

 

Some of the issues I take up in this post have been addressed in different posts or been commented all over the site. When I recently perfomed searches using the B&C logic engines I received multiple results, so many I found it difficult the make sense of it. I think it would be useful to collect them in the same post (I did not find a post that exclusively featured a discussion regarding the clothy part of Dark angels).

 

I also realize that, in a sense, everybodys army is their own. Free will (expect the interrogator-chaplains coming for you any minute) to create your on-the-table army as you wish. I do want to hear opinions regarding this matter though, hence this post.

 

I also realize that GW changed stuff all the time. Certain artists do not, perhaps, have full grasp off iconography when making images to codexes etc. Who knows... (The shadow knows what lurks in the hearts of men... but that's another diskussion entirely)

 

Dark Angel fashion (including the latest minis):

 

Tabards (sergeants in new starter box, Ltd ed Chaplain (who combines it with a cloak), assault marine image in codex): The lowest "rank" in my opinion. I'm sceptical of tabards on DA other than deathwing or assault marines, but apparently this has been retconned by GW regarding the new sergeant of the tactical squad. I'm thinking of using tabards myself but I'm having a really hard time deciding.

 

Robes: The classic & universal attire of Dark Angels. Fits everyone from Sergeant to Company veteran all the way to Company Master. Higher rank usually means more elaborations and more blingy.

 

Cloaks: Usually worn by high ranking figures of Company Master Rank and newest Ltd ed Chaplain. Members of 10th Company not counted for obvious reasons.

 

Hoods: Can be worn with Robes, might look silly with tabards, cloaks and other attire.

 

Bibs (new librarian model): Might be a librarian thing. Maybe due to excessive drooling when suffering perils of warp?

 

Grand-Wizard/Samurai/Space-Pope/Thou-shalt-not-pass outfit: Courtesy of new Company Master figure. The first time I saw this figure I hated it. It grew on me. Now I love it.

 

My general view has always been, not official GW canon I think, just an idea I picked up somewhere, that for every secret you learn (ranks in "secret" circles) you gain an item (read bling) which other keepers of the same secret have and therefore could recognize (kind of a secret handshake if you will). The more secret a secret, the mightier the bling (cooler robes, hood, holy icons etc).

 

What do you fine members of circles think of the new fashion trends (tabards & bibs)? Or what do you think in general of it all?

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Brother Nemiel

[Brother-Sergeant Bohemond]

I love it. But I think it is simplistic to say 'Robes, therefore Sergeant or Vet'

 

I would more consider these pieces of attire to represent the personal differences between Astartes, though, it seems clear that wearing robes indicates some knowledge of the Fallen and I would assume that only senior officers get to wear cloaks in battle.

 

However, this said, we have no idea what they were unarmoured around the Rock, what do they wear in feasts, celebrations, etc:? So, to signify clothing as a mark of rank is, I think, over simplifying something that could just, literally, be fashion, something that our brother likes to wear. Who knows, maybe Balthasar went to Hogwarts as a kid? :woot:

 

Instead of thinking 'tabard = lower rank' maybe think of more 'tabard = Brother who ascribes more to the Knightly ideal, or something more practical than a Robe'. Then you have Robes, perhaps to signify continuity with the Order, who wore robes, or it could be the shame they feel/potentially a mark of status. Unless we are told that these are marks of rank, I think it would be wrong to assume they are rank, not just part of the choice of individual Astartes. Even the idea of wearing Robes = knowledge is a little simple and wrong, I feel. We assume this is the case, but we do not know it for a fact. Maybe only the sergeant remembered it was dress up day that battle? In the end, I really feel it comes down to choice, and our own interpretation, I am sure someone will disagree with what I say, and thats fine: Its our hobby.

[Brother Nemiel]

Thank you for your answer Brother-sergeant Bohemond!

 

You drive a few ideas which, I think, are very good. You have given me several new aspects to think about.

[Zebukkuk]

I was surprised to see a tabard on the new tactical sergeant in the Dark Vengeance box.

 

As far as the new chaplain goes, I always thought the robes had a tabard underneath. So essentially the chaplain has his robes open in front? Just a thought.

[Brother-Sergeant Bohemond]

To be honest, I was not that surprised to see it. I think they are really pulling the Knightly theme to the fore, and there can be two Knightly Chapters. One is a zealot, full on Crusader, brutal, vicious Chapter. The other is the more 'noble' yet Monastic Knightly feel.

 

This, I think, is the direction that they will be going with the new Dark Angels.

[Brother Anders]

I lol'd at the Space Pope part, I've seen that description elsewhere.......

[Antarius]

I lol'd at the Space Pope part, I've seen that description elsewhere.......

The space pope is a filthy xenos though

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h69/Bumkarl/the-space-pope.png

 

Anyway, I'm not 100% certain on the robe thing. IIRC it's usually pushed as some sort of honorific/knowledge of the fallen thing. On the other hand, I think it looks really good with robes randomly interspersed among squads, so I'm desperate for an explanation that doesn't restrict it to sergeants, veterans and higher ranks.

[Brother Nemiel]

I lol'd at the Space Pope part, I've seen that description elsewhere.......

 

Yeah, unfortunately it is not my own...

 

Edit: I think it was Shabbadoo.

[Brother Nemiel]

Anyway, I'm not 100% certain on the robe thing. IIRC it's usually pushed as some sort of honorific/knowledge of the fallen thing. On the other hand, I think it looks really good with robes randomly interspersed among squads, so I'm desperate for an explanation that doesn't restrict it to sergeants, veterans and higher ranks.

 

"Secret handshake" of some kind? Proof of some kind of knowledge or ability which is only recognized by others with the same knowledge or ability?

[EPK]

To be honest, I was not that surprised to see it. I think they are really pulling the Knightly theme to the fore, and there can be two Knightly Chapters. One is a zealot, full on Crusader, brutal, vicious Chapter. The other is the more 'noble' yet Monastic Knightly feel.

 

This, I think, is the direction that they will be going with the new Dark Angels.

 

Yes, "noble" more or less to everyone on the outside I suppose.

 

As for the topic, can't this be something that remains ambiguous for the sake of individuals and how they want to make their army? I don't think GW needs to set this one in stone.

 

That said, Brother Nemiel, I find your conclusions sound and more or less how I see it.

[Brother-Sergeant Bohemond]

To be honest, I was not that surprised to see it. I think they are really pulling the Knightly theme to the fore, and there can be two Knightly Chapters. One is a zealot, full on Crusader, brutal, vicious Chapter. The other is the more 'noble' yet Monastic Knightly feel.

 

This, I think, is the direction that they will be going with the new Dark Angels.

 

Yes, "noble" more or less to everyone on the outside I suppose.

 

As for the topic, can't this be something that remains ambiguous for the sake of individuals and how they want to make their army? I don't think GW needs to set this one in stone.

 

That said, Brother Nemiel, I find your conclusions sound and more or less how I see it.

 

I think it will remain ambiguous. I doubt we ever see them saying 'this is what wearing a bib means, this is what wearing a Robe means'

 

However, it is always fun to speculate :huh:

 

As for noble, yes, probably aiming for those outside the Chapter. And also to pull in those who like the Knightly feel but are not Templars.

[Lord_Caerolion]

According to Deathwatch, the robes can be worn by all ranks, although typically by officers and other high-ranking members, and states that there are "hidden meanings" behind the various types. It also lists 3 example types of robes, being scholars robes, seekers robes and the robes of secrets.

[Oddsco]

Are we going down the same route as the Black Crusaders with thier robes on the armour now? B)

[Eremiel]

Are we going down the same route as the Black Crusaders with thier robes on the armour now? ;)

 

 

I believe you have that somewhat backward, Brother. We are the First. The right hand of the Emperor from when he began is Crusade. The Black Templars (I hope that is to whom you refer...), while being much lauded for their heroism, righteousness and courage, are only a succesor Chapter, formed under that guidance of Dorn and the Imperial Fists after the end of the Seige on Terra. We have taken up the robe from before the Emperor even set foot on Caliban.

 

It should be also noted that there is still a latent animosity between the Black Templars and the Ultramarines stemming from a dispute betwixt Dorn and Guilliman regarding the finer points of Index Astartes.