Chaos Undivided confusion...

[Lord Kallozar]

Hi

 

In case this has been asked a dozen times before I do apologise, but, something has been nagging me and so i thought i would turn to you guys for your knowledge.

 

Now, for example, we all know that a Khorne worshipper would be "gifted" mutations and daemonhood by Khorne, Slaanesh worshippers would be "gifted" mutations and daemonhood by Slaanesh, and so on and so on..... But what about followers of Chaos Undivided??? Who would grant an Undivided follower daemonhood or muations??

Also, i have read examples of space marine sgts/commanders who have been possessed by daemons and now worship chaos undivided, but what type of daemon is undivided??

 

Cheers.

[greatcrusade08]

there are many answers, for example abaddon is favoured by all the gods at once.. but for the most part its an unalligned god, a lesser god, somone/thing outside of the pantheon.

there are as many chaos gods as there are stars in the sky

[Excessus]

The easy answer is always tentacles!

[Kol Saresk]

It all depends. It might be a blessing from your patron Primarch or Daemon(i.e. the Mark of Lorgar from the Word Bearers series and the "dark seed" from Malfalax to Inquisitor Steele in the Blood Angels series) to something like loss of feeling pain from Khorne, Regenerative abilities from Tzeentch, living Armor that heals itself overtime from Nurgle and increased reaction times(or slower perception of time passing by might be a better way to explain it) from Slaanesh. It could just also be the warp itself directly causing mutations within your body and those mutations becoming nothing more than a reflection of who you really are and what you want to do with that power.

[Hellrender]

Sometimes the Undivided Champion gets chosen by a specific god, and gets mutations from that specific god, even though the champion remains undivided.

[minigun762]

One of the best imagery tools I've heard of is thinking of the warp as a great ocean. The four major powers are far and away the largest and most powerful entities present, but there is plenty of room for smaller fish to exist.

[Oojamaflip]

Or... just as a daemon is simply an extension of one of the gods, with it's own personality and goals, perhaps the chaos gods are extensions of something even greater. I wouldn't be surprised if none of the gods (except Tzeentch) are aware of this...

[The Colossus]

Or... just as a daemon is simply an extension of one of the gods, with it's own personality and goals, perhaps the chaos gods are extensions of something even greater. I wouldn't be surprised if none of the gods (except Tzeentch) are aware of this...

 

Pretty cool idea. But I think it's been stated in official fluff that they are extensions of the Warp itself.

[A D-B]

Chaos Undivided is a very confusing concept, especially due to the way one particular edition made it a little "gamey" and changed the lore quite a lot. That was in a very expansionist phase of the hobby, so a lot of players came into 40K seeing it as the truth, but there's a pretty simple way to view the Warp in moments like this.

 

The Four Powers are Chaos.

 

There's no Chaos Undivided, and references to Undivided as a "thing" are rarer and rarer. No more Mark of Chaos Undivided, for example. No more references to daemons of Chaos Undivided (not that there were many, anyway). The Warp essentially is the Four Powers, and the millions and billions of lesser entities aligned with them, composed of them, born from them, and so on.

 

The worship of Chaos Undivided is the worship of Chaos as a concept, made manifest in the presence of the pantheon. It's the worship of all four gods equally, or the ignorance of all of them, not realising that they're The Truth of the warp. They can say they pray to the concept of Chaos itself, and that's all fine and good. But Chaos, in real terms, is the Four Gods and everything that comes from them. In this example, a follower of Chaos Undivided will still be getting mutations and blessings from the Four Gods (or their lesser manifestations) he'll just view it in different terms. The pantheon blesses him, or the warp itself reaches out to exalt him. It's not as simple as just seeing your left arm become a tentacle and going "Hmm, this makes me cost 3 more points and is clearly from Slaanesh."

 

As editions roll out, and as Black Library gets edited tighter with delicious, beloved fact-checkers, a lot of year 2000-style / 3rd-Ed holdovers seem to be mentioned less and less, or simply never again.

[pingo]

It's not as simple as just seeing your left arm become a tentacle and going "Hmm, this makes me cost 3 more points and is clearly from Slaanesh."

What the hell are you doing with that tentacle?! ;)

[Kol Saresk]

It's not as simple as just seeing your left arm become a tentacle and going "Hmm, this makes me cost 3 more points and is clearly from Slaanesh."

What the hell are you doing with that tentacle?! :cuss

The less you know, the better.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

The easy answer is always tentacles!

:cuss

[jeremy1391]

Slanneshi tentacles are clearly hentai in origin..... Whereas Khorn tentacles have spikes :wacko:

[*Furyou Miko]

Slanneshi tentacles are clearly hentai in origin..... Whereas Khorn tentacles have spikes ;)

 

... some slaaneshi tentacles have spikes too. *pout* Don't judge them! *waves a mechandendrite menacingly*

[Olis]

Slanneshi tentacles are clearly hentai in origin..... Whereas Khorn tentacles have spikes ;)

 

They're of whatever origin you wish them to be. You could have a slaaneshi tentacle-face spawn and have clear connotations with Lovecraft. Remember; Slaanesh is the god of excess, not porn.

[Brother Ambroz]

The Warp essentially is the Four Powers, and the millions and billions of lesser entities aligned with them, composed of them, born from them, and so on.

 

I'm not trying to attack you or anything but are you saying there aren't any lesser powers unaffiliated with the four gods? For example some of the lesser gods? :o

[voi shet magir]

Horus was not corrupted by chaos captain planet. The gods are not Voltron.

 

Mutations are not just gods twisting his claws through mortals. They are, at the same time, mortals being swept up by unstoppable tides of history. They are all the people and events that are exactly like the mutant bleeding out of history through the mutant's body. Sometimes the mutating forces have faces and color-coding simple enough for xbox people to deal with.

 

Horus was corrupted by being a perfect human who won all the time. It was always going to happen, he was born that way. It was not about a color-wheel.

[A D-B]

The Warp essentially is the Four Powers, and the millions and billions of lesser entities aligned with them, composed of them, born from them, and so on.

 

I'm not trying to attack you or anything but are you saying there aren't any lesser powers unaffiliated with the four gods? For example some of the lesser gods? :lol:

 

I'm saying I've not seen any mentioned for a long time now, and the few I've seen even relatively recently were from dated, unchecked sources. Given how GW retcons, I think that's pretty telling.

 

I go with how the IP is explained to me not just from the published materials, but from chatting to the IP folks, too. So something that, f'rex, looks weird like the above, to me it looks a little more like "Then this guy who helmed one edition liked X, and they've been on damage control since."

[Trevak Dal]

there are many answers, for example abaddon is favoured by all the gods at once.. but for the most part its an unalligned god, a lesser god, somone/thing outside of the pantheon.

there are as many chaos gods as there are stars in the sky

 

Yeah, I believe they worship Chaos in it's entirety as either a single entity or as a pantheon of gods and spirit totems. "Khorne, grant my rage fire so I can drive my sword deep into my enemies, Nurgle make me proof against the pain of my enemy's bite, Tzeentch, let me see that which cannot be seen to survive, and Slaanesh, let me be artful in my death dealing. And if I am to die, let me die buried under the corpses of my enemies." Or some such thing.

[Pavement Artist]

The Warp essentially is the Four Powers, and the millions and billions of lesser entities aligned with them, composed of them, born from them, and so on.

 

I'm not trying to attack you or anything but are you saying there aren't any lesser powers unaffiliated with the four gods? For example some of the lesser gods? :huh:

 

I'm saying I've not seen any mentioned for a long time now, and the few I've seen even relatively recently were from dated, unchecked sources. Given hoe GW retcons, I think that's pretty telling.

 

I go with how the IP is explained to me not just from the published materials, but from chatting to the IP folks, too. So something that, f'rex, looks weird like the above, to me it looks a little more like "Then this guy who helmed one edition liked X, and they've been on damage control since."

 

See my thread on Malal Alpha legion. It does seem that GW have been sweeping the unaligned other deities under the rug. The big 4 are so elemental that you could always make up your own lesser power and have them as a facet of one of the chaos gods. Malal is all about power through chaos destroying chaos right? Doesn't Tzeentch normally incite most of these conflicts? Ergo, you could now claim Malal is a being formed from one of the more acutely anarchic facets of Tzeentch.

[A D-B]

The Warp essentially is the Four Powers, and the millions and billions of lesser entities aligned with them, composed of them, born from them, and so on.

 

I'm not trying to attack you or anything but are you saying there aren't any lesser powers unaffiliated with the four gods? For example some of the lesser gods? :huh:

 

I'm saying I've not seen any mentioned for a long time now, and the few I've seen even relatively recently were from dated, unchecked sources. Given hoe GW retcons, I think that's pretty telling.

 

I go with how the IP is explained to me not just from the published materials, but from chatting to the IP folks, too. So something that, f'rex, looks weird like the above, to me it looks a little more like "Then this guy who helmed one edition liked X, and they've been on damage control since."

 

The big 4 are so elemental that you could always make up your own lesser power and have them as a facet of one of the chaos gods. Malal is all about power through chaos destroying chaos right? Doesn't Tzeentch normally incite most of these conflicts? Ergo, you could now claim Malal is a being formed from one of the more acutely anarchic facets of Tzeentch.

 

Exactly. It's not a loss. It's not even really a change. It's a clearer defining.

[Brother Ambroz]

[Exactly. It's not a loss. It's not even really a change. It's a clearer defining.

 

Hmm never really thought of it that way but its a nice way to think up new lesser "gods".

[Lord Kallozar]

Thanks everyone for all the replies. So basically your saying that an undivided worshipping warband (taking Word Bearers as an example who worship all 4 gods equally as a pantheon) will be granted mutations by each of the 4 gods individually but not be claimed by that singular god? For example a marine will be blessed by Tzeentch in the form of a spiky giant fist, but will not be claimed by Tzeentch?

[Olis]

Well, being claimed might take time with nominally Undivided worshippers but it depends on the 'gift' and the tendencies of that particular marine. He may not be claimed at all or he could begin to worship a particular power more than the others once one has become a 'patron'.

[space wolf]

This is like many polytheistic religions of our past. Lets take the Romans as an example because most of us are pretty familiar with them through the semi-accurate representations of the cinema. The Romans had many many gods (not all of them were the same as the Greeks, or even the ones that they shared were not always the exactly the same...just a point of note). An individual might pray to Mars for strength in battle, or Janus for luck in a new business dealing. But usually there was one god, that that individual prayed to the most. A patron god, if you will. I would assume the same applies to something like the word bearers. As a collective group, they worship all the gods, but that doesn't mean individuals don't have their favorites.