Augustus Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 It is not very long. :/ Some things: 1. The book is told from many different points of view. 2. Interesting to note that a ravenwing member can be promoted to deathwing and wear terminator armor. I always figured that they were to different paths. 3. The ravenwing KNOW about the fall. Luther. And what not. This is contradictory to the current dex. 4. They push a lot of plasma cannon talk. 5. The librarian is pretty powerful and has the ability to know the future in minutiae. And is pretty boss HOWEVER it portrays him as not being well-regarded as he is a librarian. 6. A lot of background on the Crimson Slaughter. They were a noble chapter called the Crimson Sabers who were possessed by Khornate cultists. With only one marine crying out against falling into darkness--the Helbrute. 7. There is a Ravenwing sarge who is a pretty awesome dude. 8. Terminator fraternity is very loose and informal. 9. The 4th company has been completely destroyed in the past. Any Dark Angel fan should get it. It is definitely a Dark Angel book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dynamicspartan Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 As far as I can remember the Ravenwing has always known about the fallen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPK Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 As far as I can remember the Ravenwing has always known about the fallen. The current dex states that they "are granted limited knowledge of the secrets...much more than the [other companies], but far less than the Deathwing and the Inner Circle". The RW are told they are capturing "vile and debased heretics, renegades and traitors". Unfortunately it does not elaborate on just how much they know. From those statements, I suppose we can assume they know a bit - perhaps that these traitors are indeed Dark Angels, but not exactly the full extent of the fall and the loss of Caliban. Perhaps they only think of them as more recent renegades rather than 10,000 year old traitors to the Lion. Conjecture of course. On a related note, the same entry in the codex, it does say that RW will capture Fallen. I know this came up in a recent post where I stated only the DW did that. They only call the DW when it is multiples and they need backup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPK Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 Interesting stuff Augustus. 8. Terminator fraternity is very loose and informal. Can you elaborate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Semper Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 Sounds very interesting overall... According to existing fluff (going back since 2nd Ed.) the first time a DA learns about the Fall is upon induction to the DW. Can one be DW and RW at the same time? I beleive so - if 3rd Ed. Codex is anything to go by, you could get Vet. Sergeants in standard squads being inducted to the DW - so why not the RW Vet. Sergeants? But does this mean all the RW is in the know? Nope - otherwise they'd be DW... ^_^ Now if the book gives a different spin in what was one of the fundamental aspects of the DA Chapter is unclear to me. But its' in the post so soon I'll have it in my hands! :wacko: Also, point 8? I can't say I like it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ordo Machinum Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 Also, point 8? I can't say I like it... That might depend on the degree of it. It could be the informality of battle brothers who have served many decades together. If it's silly fratboy stuff, i.e. let's put a squig in Brother Mensael's helmet <snicker>, then that would be disappointing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Semper Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 Also, point 8? I can't say I like it... That might depend on the degree of it. It could be the informality of battle brothers who have served many decades together. If it's silly fratboy stuff, i.e. let's put a squig in Brother Mensael's helmet <snicker>, then that would be disappointing. I guess... Still I expect marines in general and DAs in particular to address each other with great deal of formality and decorum... even if they are battle brothers and have fought together for decades. I'd expect the Wolves to be more casual to each other... But not too much either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPK Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 Also, point 8? I can't say I like it... That might depend on the degree of it. It could be the informality of battle brothers who have served many decades together. If it's silly fratboy stuff, i.e. let's put a squig in Brother Mensael's helmet <snicker>, then that would be disappointing. I guess... Still I expect marines in general and DAs in particular to address each other with great deal of formality and decorum... even if they are battle brothers and have fought together for decades. I'd expect the Wolves to be more casual to each other... But not too much either. I agree, however the casualness of the Mournival comes to mind which seems interesting... but it certainly was not Company-spanning. Though I'm not sure how Dark Angel-esque it would be. With so many secrets and circles within circles, I'd think things would be very rigid most of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Semper Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 Yeap... You never are quite sure who you're talking to. Formality should permiate the Chapter imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPK Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 Let's just see what Augustus says. Perhaps it isn't as bad as we think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebris Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 Actually the Deathwing are still formal but they allow themselves to speak their mind when concerned with the mission. The reasoning behind this is that they can be elevated at any moment notice into the ranks of the Company Masters and thus they act as a brotherhood of old veterans and future captains who discuss openly strategy and devoid of pride speak and accept a critique on their actions and tactics or those of their peers. Consider them a bunch of old colonels who speak openly of their campaigns and missions but still pull rank when need be. All in all the novel was a good reading and quite a good starting point to present the casual or new Warhammer player Black Library and its works. It is not on par with the extensive and elaborate works of BL but it still manages to capture the feeling of a DA army, the fall of the Crimson Sloughter and presents the named characters quite well. +: - The Ravenwing sergeant is a great character and quite memorable. - The tactical squad Raphael is portrayed quite well and plays a major role. - The story behind the Hellbrute is my favourite part, well done but a bit rushed to the end. - We finnaly see some proper torture, Interrogator Chaplain style ofc. -: - Librarian Turmiel is a great character and somehow portrays good the role of a Librarian in a combat mission. The problem is that the author made him way overpowered. - When the chosen appear provide the novel with some suspense but we dont see Draznicht play any part. Sadly this was the part that really intrigued me but it simply did not show up in the novel. - Rushed at the end, way too rushed imo. Still this is my oppinion on the novel. Regardless of the points above it is a must read for every true Dark Angel. The novel sold me the 5th Company and its heroes as my main army and probably it will be the first SM company I will collect from now on. Tenebris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPK Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 Actually the Deathwing are still formal but they allow themselves to speak their mind when concerned with the mission. The reasoning behind this is that they can be elevated at any moment notice into the ranks of the Company Masters and thus they act as a brotherhood of old veterans and future captains who discuss openly strategy and devoid of pride speak and accept a critique on their actions and tactics or those of their peers. Consider them a bunch of old colonels who speak openly of their campaigns and missions but still pull rank when need be. Thanks Tenebris, that's helpful. I don't think that's all that bad and it does make sense. They are all hardened veterans with years of experience to share regardless of who the sergeant is - though when he does make the final call, they of course obey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPK Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 Well I downloaded the eBook just to have a read myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Kovash Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 Regarding the Deathwing being informal amongst their ranks, I would imagine that any military group that have been together for a while develop a sense of familiarity with each other. I work in law enforcement myself, and my peers and I often talk to each other on very common terms, especially the guys that I've worked with for the past 5-6 years. That bond develops over time, and should be seen as a sign of brotherhood and commitment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPK Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 According to the story, the RW do know the true story of the fall and who they hunt with one exception - they are told that the Lion ran Luther through with his sword which seems to allude to them thinking Luther was killed. At least something was left out for them. The story mentioned that he was told all this when inducted into the RW and he passed it to his subordinates when they were elevated as well. This does seen to be a different, Semper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Semper Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 Hmmm... not thrilled... Do you think is a secret shared by the specific squad or is it supposed to be common knowledge in RW? I guess the new Codex and the upcoming book "Ravenwing"will clear things up and show us where GW is heading with RW... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Morgrim Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 What other Dark Angels books are there....i am enjoying the novella and Turmiel is my favourite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Posted September 5, 2012 Author Share Posted September 5, 2012 The informality comes about as they are all veterans. There is even ravenguard veterans in terminator armor. (They are deathwing but were formerly in the second company. Which seems that they knew the secrets. But since the Ravenwing sergeant shared what he knew about the fall with his marines and they DEFINITELY were not all in the deathwing..seems that there is little distinction between the two and perhaps they are just routes on the way to the inner circle?) "Normal" deathwing terminators were openly questioning the actions and decisions of the 5th company master. They did not receive anything in a form of rebuke. Their conversation reminded me of Abnetts Legion However the sergeant, without rebuking (which I bet an ultramarine one would have done) is able to illuminate them to the 5th company masters wisdom. ‘By keeping us in reserve, Master Balthasar has retained the element of surprise. If the battle on Bane’s Landing is not going our way then we shall reverse the tide. If our brothers lie dead or dying then we shall be the instrument of retribution. Because after all, isn’t retribution the Dark Angels’ way?’ I like that. Dunn can write. I wish he wrote this as a full 400 page book instead of a 160? page novella. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Posted September 5, 2012 Author Share Posted September 5, 2012 I also wish to agree with Tenebris Interrogator-Chaplains REALLY know how to INTERROGATE I felt bad for that traitor marine...I mean..wow.. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValourousHeart Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 According to the story, the RW do know the true story of the fall and who they hunt with one exception - they are told that the Lion ran Luther through with his sword which seems to allude to them thinking Luther was killed. At least something was left out for them. The story mentioned that he was told all this when inducted into the RW and he passed it to his subordinates when they were elevated as well. This does seen to be a different, Semper. Well that fits with the story from the 2nd ed codex... only the Supreme Grand Master knows that... or was it the Supreme Grand Master, Chief Librarian and Head Interrogator Chaplain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isiah Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 Marks out of 5? (with 3 being 'average' 5 being pure boss) Storyline x Fluff/character development x Overall x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xnickbaranx Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 What other Dark Angels books are there....i am enjoying the novella and Turmiel is my favourite I was wondering this exact thing. I clearly missed a few in the last 2 years. Dark Vengeance Ascension of Balthazar (Ebook/Audio Drama) Malediction The Lion (Ebook) Easy Prey (Eshort) Deathwing (short story) Unforgiven (short story) The Purging of Kadillus The Falls of Marakross (short story) Tears of Blood (short story) Angels of Darkness Savage Weapons (Ebook/Audio Short) Fallen Angels Descent of Angels I have some catching up to do. I've only read half the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrahawk Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 Now look what you have done, I hope you are real proud of yourselves. Bought the eBook. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPK Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 Marks out of 5? (with 3 being 'average' 5 being pure boss) Storyline x Fluff/character development x Overall x I'dd say Tenebris summed it up well. Because it was too rushed at the end (and it was sort of the easy way out), I think storyline gets a 2.5 Hard for character development in such a small story, but it makes up for it with some interesting back stories and additions to fluff - 3 Averaging those two numbers, the story comes in below par, but if you take it for what it is - a simple companion novella (so just a longer short story) to the starter for new players (and perhaps geared towards the younger players at that?) - I'll knock it up to a solid 3 overall. And that's being generous. There were certainly things that did not sit well with me but you must take in to consideration that as I noted the novella seems to be restricted by the boxed set it supports. For instance, I feel it presented marine casualties more in a manner you might see within gameplay as opposed to fluff. The RW sarge makes a comment about a past campaign against Orks where for every 1 marine that died, 1000 Orks died in his place yet two DA marines die, somewhat quickly, to Chaos Cultist in the actual storyline? And it wasn't a horde of cultists either - it was basically what you might find in the starter box I believe. In addition, as noted, I agree, the Librarian seemed a bit OP'd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Posted September 6, 2012 Author Share Posted September 6, 2012 I would say its a 3 as well. I think it is too expensive for how short it is. However, it mixes the fluff up a little so I think everyone should read it. It is nice reading about Dark Angels and not have to worry about the fallen. Plus the characters it introduces are quite memorable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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