greatcrusade08 Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 *Applauds* well said TEC Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260182-converting-dark-vengeance-models-into-ultramarines/page/2/#findComment-3177800 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Semper Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Either he is a troll, or he knows not of what he speaks. Yeah, he's the troll... :rolleyes: Never. My Ultramarines aren't taking the field with traitors. That's what Dark Vengeance is. A box of traitors. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260182-converting-dark-vengeance-models-into-ultramarines/page/2/#findComment-3177897 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxichobbit Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 My point is that Ultramar isn't the Imperium Secondus. Likewise, Guillimann is not the Ultramarines. You can't judge a Chapter solely on an ideal (which was all the Imperium Secondus was) of one member of their parent Legion during the Heresy, even if it was their Primarch. Instead, you judge a Chapters loyalty based on the actions of their Legion during the Heresy (including the actions and ideals of their Primarch) and how they have behaved in the 10,000 years since. Arguing otherwise is being silly, it's picking one moment and using that moment to judge 10,000 years of history. Or, to put it another way, were i to use that logic the Astral Claws are a Chapter still loyal to the Imperium because i choose to use a point at which they were loyal to back up my arguaments regardless of the fact that they later turned renegade. Obviously that view point is wrong, but if i used Kem's logic i can (poorly) justify it. Yeah, he's the troll... :rolleyes: TEC isn't trolling though. Questioning the loyalty of the Dark Angels makes a lot more sense than questioning the loyalty of the Ultramarines (Space Wolves, Blood Angels or any of the other first founding loyalists). The Dark Angels continue to act questionably at times. They've been doing it for 10,000 years. How can a non-Dark Angel not have doubts about their loyalty, given that they will abandon their allies turning a possible Imperial victory into a loss for no apparant reason? Sure, out of universe we, with our omnipresent view understand why. However, the Ultramarines and any other non-Unforgiven have no idea why the Dark Angels suddenly abandon them. GW has purposefully set up the background this way, so that the Dark Angels can appear loyal or possible traitors depending on your view point. If you don't like someone calling your Chapter's loyalty into question, take it up with GW rather than calling that person names. However, this is way off topic. Either we should get back on topic or this thread should be locked, seeing as we seem unable to accept someone questioning the loyalty of our little plastic men without calling each other names. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260182-converting-dark-vengeance-models-into-ultramarines/page/2/#findComment-3177937 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Debonair Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 You also have to remember this is a starter set, so it's more about getting new players into the game rather than getting cheap army additions for existing players. Exactly. And that makes it MASSIVELY more useless. "Want to play 40k? You should get a starter set. It's a great way to learn 40k! What's that? What are your options for starting armies? Uh... Well, you don't have any... What's that you say? You don't like cross-dressing Marines or evil Marines, but you kinda like the viking ones or those aliens? Sorry, we don't have a starter set for that." Yeah, but unless they put every race in the starter box, you'd always be able to say that. :blush: I agree that more generic marines would have appealed to a wider spectrum of people, but perhaps they thought everyone who bought the last box would go 'meh, more of the same' and ignore it, or something. Given some of the stunning conversions that people made from the AOBR set, though, I'm sure there'll be plenty of cool marines from many chapters to come out of this box set sooner or later. :lol: EDIT: Typos. Blasted, blasted typos. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260182-converting-dark-vengeance-models-into-ultramarines/page/2/#findComment-3178752 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Semper Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 TEC isn't trolling though. What's that you say? You don't like cross-dressing Marines or evil Marines, but you kinda like the viking ones or those aliens? Sorry, we don't have a starter set for that." To get back on topic, I agree that the starter sets should be generic in nature but ultimately there has to be two factions. What f there was Tyranids vs. Tau? Will that be more acceptable? Since GW is treating each Marine blend as a distinct and separate army it's not exactly a surprise that they chose a specific Chapter. It could have been SW or BAs or (the horribly neglected) UMs. If you feel that this boxed set is not for you - don't buy it. Whether GW made a mistake in releasing it only sales figures will tell... Edit: Ace made the exact same argument above. So... ninja'ed? :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260182-converting-dark-vengeance-models-into-ultramarines/page/2/#findComment-3178766 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Debonair Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Edit: Ace made the exact same argument above. So... ninja'ed? :D My training is paying off! :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260182-converting-dark-vengeance-models-into-ultramarines/page/2/#findComment-3178783 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxichobbit Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 TEC isn't trolling though. What's that you say? You don't like cross-dressing Marines or evil Marines, but you kinda like the viking ones or those aliens? Sorry, we don't have a starter set for that." To get back on topic, I agree that the starter sets should be generic in nature but ultimately there has to be two factions. What f there was Tyranids vs. Tau? Will that be more acceptable? Since GW is treating each Marine blend as a distinct and separate army it's not exactly a surprise that they chose a specific Chapter. It could have been SW or BAs or (the horribly neglected) UMs. If you feel that this boxed set is not for you - don't buy it. Whether GW made a mistake in releasing it only sales figures will tell... Edit: Ace made the exact same argument above. So... ninja'ed? :) Fair enough, "cross-dressing marines" is kinda trolling. I missed that bit. That's an interesting way to look at the starter set, regarding Dark Angels as a completely seperate army to other Marines. Which of course, they are, given that they have their own Codex. But on the other hand, they're not, given that they share a lot of the same units/kits as other Marine chapters. It's a difficult call, should Chapters such as the Dark Angels and Blood Angels be treated seperately to "standard" Marines for stuff like starter boxes? Should those starter boxes have an army like Blood Angels or Dark Angels instead of generic Marines? The only really right answer is what GW decide and what makes them the most money, anything else is just differing opinions. With the Tactical Marines and to a lesser degree the Terminators and Ravenwing, it doesn't matter to much. They're fairly easy to convert into generic Marines by the removal of chapter specific bits. The characters though, are very specific Dark Angels. You could remove the Dark Angel iconography, but your still left with the robes and distinct Dark Angel style swords. Unless your playing a DIY chapter that uses robes, chances are the characters are of no use to you. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260182-converting-dark-vengeance-models-into-ultramarines/page/2/#findComment-3179172 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellrender Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 The Ultramarines have never been traitors. They're simply the ones so loyal to the cause that they never lose sight of it and assume that there isn't a better approach to reaching their goals.You can see that with the modern Ultramarines AT A GENETIC LEVEL, compared to other Chapters. Where other Chapters have gotten so caught up in the Marine creation rituals of creating Blood Angels, Space Wolves, or whatever, the Ultramarines have kept a tight track of "these are the things that HAVE TO be done to make a proper Space Marine" without obscuring it all under a ton of arcane rituals. So nowadays the Ultramarines have the purest and fully-functioning geneseed, while the Blood Angels are becoming more vampiric and starting to die off, and the Space Wolves have more and more lupine features as time goes by. Without Guilliman's Primarch mind to actively guide them, the Ultramarines have clung fiercely to the ways that his Codex has instructed of them (kind of insane to question a demigod's wisdom as long as it doesn't seem flawed), but they've not been so blinded by their faith in him to have prepared for everything that they haven't helped the Codex to evolve over the last 10,000 years. They're even willing to reluctantly admit the impossibly rare occurrence of a situation where the Codex simply does not having sound advice, and then they carefully add to it and change it to meet new threats. They constantly question the situation and search for the BEST solution, where others adhere to their "traditional" solutions (like the White Scars - BIKES FOR EVERY OCCASION!). They never lose sight of the goal while focusing on the methods of reaching it. You always have a way of making Ultramarines sound cool XD Applaud. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260182-converting-dark-vengeance-models-into-ultramarines/page/2/#findComment-3183784 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Emperor's Champion Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 Fair enough, "cross-dressing marines" is kinda trolling. I missed that bit.But only a little. They ARE Marines who wear dresses and have dark secrets. :rolleyes: The Ultramarines have never been traitors. They're simply the ones so loyal to the cause that they never lose sight of it and assume that there isn't a better approach to reaching their goals.You can see that with the modern Ultramarines AT A GENETIC LEVEL, compared to other Chapters. Where other Chapters have gotten so caught up in the Marine creation rituals of creating Blood Angels, Space Wolves, or whatever, the Ultramarines have kept a tight track of "these are the things that HAVE TO be done to make a proper Space Marine" without obscuring it all under a ton of arcane rituals. So nowadays the Ultramarines have the purest and fully-functioning geneseed, while the Blood Angels are becoming more vampiric and starting to die off, and the Space Wolves have more and more lupine features as time goes by. Without Guilliman's Primarch mind to actively guide them, the Ultramarines have clung fiercely to the ways that his Codex has instructed of them (kind of insane to question a demigod's wisdom as long as it doesn't seem flawed), but they've not been so blinded by their faith in him to have prepared for everything that they haven't helped the Codex to evolve over the last 10,000 years. They're even willing to reluctantly admit the impossibly rare occurrence of a situation where the Codex simply does not having sound advice, and then they carefully add to it and change it to meet new threats. They constantly question the situation and search for the BEST solution, where others adhere to their "traditional" solutions (like the White Scars - BIKES FOR EVERY OCCASION!). They never lose sight of the goal while focusing on the methods of reaching it. You always have a way of making Ultramarines sound cool XD Applaud. :P I like to hope so. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260182-converting-dark-vengeance-models-into-ultramarines/page/2/#findComment-3186975 Share on other sites More sharing options...
librisrouge Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 I understand that here on the Ultramarine forum that I'd encounter some...distaste...for other chapters but wow. No offense intended but the AoBR models sucked as Dark Angels or Space Wolves as much as these guys do for Space Wolves or Codex Marines. Neither works as Space Wolves, even slightly. The iconography is completely off in both (AoBR and DV) cases and would require filing as well as the addition of space wolfy bits. "What's that? You like those viking marines but purchased an AoBR box? To bad, allie them as Ultramarines punk." My brother in law plays Fenrisians and he was a bit irate at AoBR but he decided to build a bridge and get over it. Neither swaps back and forth for DA or UM either. Guilliman (I even googled the spelling so that I'd be respectful) didn't apparently get the memo that tactical markings go left and right instead of up. Ok, guess I'll file that off and start again, it's no more work than you'd have to do to convert DV marines into Ultras. Also, several codex chapters could utilize tabards and robs, especially those based on a knight theme (I could really see Imperial Fist successors get into that.) My whole point is that somebody was going to be left out in the cold by this set, or any set. You can only include two factions (codexes) per set. That isn't a reason to call the whole box a bunch of traitors (something that is just begging for some kinda ubernerdy intraforum warfare.) All those other factions just need to wait exercise some patient and thank the good Lord that GW didn't use Eldar. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260182-converting-dark-vengeance-models-into-ultramarines/page/2/#findComment-3191803 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 I understand that here on the Ultramarine forum that I'd encounter some...distaste...for other chapters but wow. No offense intended but the AoBR models sucked as Dark Angels or Space Wolves as much as these guys do for Space Wolves or Codex Marines. Yeah... But how many times we seen Space Wolves or Dark Angels fans moaning about receiving a boxed set consisting of Ultramarines stylised models? And I think you'll get more support for other Chapters here than you might elsewhere in certain forums... :D Anyways, I think more people won't buy this boxed set than bought the previous boxed set. More players could make use out of the previous one, since the models were more generic than the current one. Of course the popularity of the Chaos Codex coming will see many boxed set bought for them alone. Which is good in my view, since I think sucess for GW will enable us all to get decent sets in the future. :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260182-converting-dark-vengeance-models-into-ultramarines/page/2/#findComment-3191883 Share on other sites More sharing options...
librisrouge Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 Of course the popularity of the Chaos Codex coming will see many boxed set bought for them alone. Which is good in my view, since I think sucess for GW will enable us all to get decent sets in the future. :blink: I think this is the best view to take from it. If this is what GW does for a boxed set, I'm highly anticipating a Deathwing, Ultramarine Honour Guards, or Shrike's Wing box. My god the fun we could be having in the next few years. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260182-converting-dark-vengeance-models-into-ultramarines/page/2/#findComment-3191911 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 Agreed. As long as GW gets sucesses we will get great models being made. Of course, the price is a different matter altogether! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260182-converting-dark-vengeance-models-into-ultramarines/page/2/#findComment-3191917 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cptn. Palladorus Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 Guilliman (I even googled the spelling so that I'd be respectful) didn't apparently get the memo that tactical markings go left and right instead of up.He didn't, actually, but that's because he wrote it. Check out Insignium Astartes and you'll see about six pages of squad marking schemes, all equally valid for Codex-compliant chapters. The DA-style are among them. I'm pretty happy with the DA miniatures in DV. I haven't decided yet how I'll paint them, either as DA, or with a little converting work I could turn them into Angels of Absolution or Emperor's Hawks. Everybody needs a chance of pace now and then and I had seriously considered all of those chapters (and a bunch of others) at one point or another. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260182-converting-dark-vengeance-models-into-ultramarines/page/2/#findComment-3192287 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ideaus Posted October 1, 2012 Author Share Posted October 1, 2012 Here is my Libby from DV coverted to be a Ultramarine, took a couple of minutes to remove the icon on his chest but that was it. I left the sword as it looks good. Just a lick of paint and bam new unique ultramarine libby. CC welcomed Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260182-converting-dark-vengeance-models-into-ultramarines/page/2/#findComment-3192726 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 Looks good! DA imagery looks really good for gothic style Librarians. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260182-converting-dark-vengeance-models-into-ultramarines/page/2/#findComment-3192837 Share on other sites More sharing options...
A D-B Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 Here is my Libby from DV coverted to be a Ultramarine, took a couple of minutes to remove the icon on his chest but that was it. I left the sword as it looks good. Just a lick of paint and bam new unique ultramarine libby. CC welcomed Oh, man. Best one I've seen yet. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260182-converting-dark-vengeance-models-into-ultramarines/page/2/#findComment-3192900 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adeptus-Alaska Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 All right, I'll bite. I :D love the Dark Angels, but I am not too happy with the DV set, there, I said it. Guess what? I :) love me some Ultramarines as well! I hate it when they are called smurfs, and I defend them ruthlessly. Ultramarines could do with some ROBES (not dresses, please) after all, the UM are loosley based on Imperial Rome (relax, I said loosely) and guess what? ROMANS WORE ROBES! or tunics that look suspiciously like miniskirts ;) the fact is, all flavors of marines are awesome in their own way. after all we both missed the Siege of Terra :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260182-converting-dark-vengeance-models-into-ultramarines/page/2/#findComment-3193025 Share on other sites More sharing options...
UltraRich Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 Thats a good looking libby. Ive done the same with mine although Ive removed the sword on the shoulder pad and put a GS purity seal over it. Heres my first test mini which is one of the two that are the same. The other one may end up helmetless but it depends what I do and how this turns out. http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f372/rbrewster101/SDC10382.jpg Arm swap for a SW flamer fitted with a FW Ultra Pad http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f372/rbrewster101/SDC10383.jpg Ive removed the feathers off the leg and replaced with an aquila http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f372/rbrewster101/SDC10384.jpg I'll get some paint on it tomorrow. One thing I have noticed is the striking similarities to some of the space hulk terminators. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260182-converting-dark-vengeance-models-into-ultramarines/page/2/#findComment-3193091 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ideaus Posted October 4, 2012 Author Share Posted October 4, 2012 Here my DV tac sqd all painted up Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260182-converting-dark-vengeance-models-into-ultramarines/page/2/#findComment-3195957 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxichobbit Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 What is this from? Is it a Horus Heresy short story I missed? Rules of Engagement. Short story in Age of Darkness. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260182-converting-dark-vengeance-models-into-ultramarines/page/2/#findComment-3196238 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 You have no idea... :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260182-converting-dark-vengeance-models-into-ultramarines/page/2/#findComment-3197184 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 I liked it. :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260182-converting-dark-vengeance-models-into-ultramarines/page/2/#findComment-3197392 Share on other sites More sharing options...
UltraRich Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Evening Just an update of where I am with the WIP on the first Termi. All painted up and ready for highlighting, gems an a final tidy up http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f372/rbrewster101/SDC10385.jpg http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f372/rbrewster101/SDC10386.jpg Heres whats coming next. This one had more DA iconography on him so it was more work Ive swapped out the bolter arm for a spare SH arm. The wing has gone and has been replaced by a shield. The swords on the back of the powerfist has gone and is replaced by an etched brass U. The hanging DA logo has been swapped for a SM Captain pendant. http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f372/rbrewster101/SDC10388.jpg Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260182-converting-dark-vengeance-models-into-ultramarines/page/2/#findComment-3199093 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nym468 Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Thought I would throw in my conversions. So I picked up the Limited Edition Dark Vengeance set. I couldn't resist the temptation to paint those figures. I've completed half the tactical squad, the chapter master, and one terminator. Many hours were spent filing off the Dark Angel icons and pendants. First up is the Chapter Master, converted to be the Sgt. for my Robed Veterans. http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8460/8061840267_a08a208670_b.jpg http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8179/8061843102_86591d2daf_b.jpg http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8453/8061840113_c97974ea4b_b.jpg http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8175/8061842962_eef0cba887_b.jpg http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8458/8061842780_599f95745f_b.jpg http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8034/8061842862_c8626bda15_b.jpg And the tactical squad. Because all of my tactical squads have been started, these guys didn't really have a place to go. Therefore these are the first members of 3rd Company 1st Tactical Squad. http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8310/8061842686_d6f5a0de54_b.jpg http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8038/8061839659_009763109d_b.jpg http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8450/8061840363_531f1709bd_b.jpg Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260182-converting-dark-vengeance-models-into-ultramarines/page/2/#findComment-3199499 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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