List building priorities in smaller games?

[Prototype]

My meta plays mostly 1,500; occasionally 1,000 and 1,750 at times. However, with the advent of 6th breathing new (or added) life into Sanguinary Guard, Death Company, Terminators and Bikes, I suddenly feel like I have so many things I want to take, but certainly no space for all of them.

 

My lists recently have revolved around two Assault Squads, backed by a big bike chunk (~ 7 bikes and ~4 Attack Bikes) and a unit of plain Sanguinary Guard and a Librarian, and it has served me well. MEQs die under a torrent of blows, and armor doesn't like a list that brings quite a few Meltas to the table. However, I cannot help but wonder how badly I'd be done in by flyer lists (thankfully no one has pulled that.....yet), or if I'd be better off with some sort of Terminator/DC-based list - although I feel the possibly-obligatory LR or SR would make the army incredibly tiny.

 

If you had to design a competitive 1,500 point list, what would your priorities be? What do you think would work well, and what looks good on paper but doesn't go too well at such point scales? My thanks in adavnce.

[Ushtarador]

Well, I'd most certainly use a drop pod full of death company and a stormraven with the dread inside. However, don't fill that SR with more stuff on 1500, or your army will be too weak if you fail the reserve roll.

In my opinion stay away from assault termies below 1500, they require too many points to actually get anywhere useful. Anything else is playable I guess.

[Remtek]

If your running many bikes, put a priest in there. Since their all toughness 5 you can FNP pretty much anything. It seems that the only viable counter to flyers is running them yourself. Though Aegis line should be in every competitive list as it is cheap and you can put up 4 cover areas. They are the only weapon that can hit air at full BS.

[Joasht]

I'm fairly torn about the use of a Stormraven in small games, and it seems more useful in "hover" mode; being in flyer mode just makes it a pain in the rear, like every other flyer. I'm not exactly sure what inspired GW to make flyers so strangely ruled, for in an edition where everything seems fairly balanced, they make a single class of unit seemingly disproportionately meta-bending.

[Prototype]

If your running many bikes, put a priest in there.

Oh yes, of course. The Priest is in by default; sometimes a pair. One is doable, but fairly risky; two on the other hand feels fairly tight on the wallet at 1500. Of course IMO the ideal situation is just Corbulo, but he suffers from the "needs a transport" issue unless I park him with a big unit of foot-slogging tactical Terminators.

[CitadelArmyGuy]

In my opinion, 1500pts is the rock bottom where Blood Angels can build a well-rounded list. Our reliance on Force Multiplication Characters generates a "Fixed Cost" (link) which means Blood Angels have very few points left to invest into our variable costs.

 

Armies which have entirely or nearly entirely Variable Costs when list-writing (Imperial Guard, Necrons, Orks, certain Tyranid builds, and most MSU builds) always play more efficiently at below 1500pts.

 

If you consistently play at 1000pts, Warhammer 40k may look like a game of Rock-Paper-Scissors. For example, I won a small local 10-player 1000pt Tournament with a Mephiston/Corbulo/Two Land Raiders list. I was simply never matched up against somebody who had Turn1 melta shooting capability (the paper to my rock) so I smashed all the scissors.

 

Balanced List-writing requires examination of the full range of possibilities as a Problem Set. Your job is to maximize your ability to solve each Problem within the Set. The Problem Set requiring solutions includes Mass Light Infantry (aka Hordes), Mass Light Vehicles (aka MSU), Medium Infantry, Fast Infantry (Bikes/Jetbikes/Jump Packers), Heavy Infantry, Heavy Tanks/Armored Walkers, Monstrous Creatures, Alpha-strikers (Deep-Strike/Outflank), Heroic-level Independent Characters, Shock Units, and now Flyers (perhaps the straw [well...steel beam] that broke the camel's back, that last one).

 

Obtaining a Blood Angel list below 1500pts that can answer all those problems is.... absurd. Hence, build a 1000pt list which can solve about half but will do it amazingly, isn't too weak against a quarter, and has no solution at all versus the last fourth. Of course, you pick the half you can trash from what you've seen played at your local meta. That's the way I see it, to be honest.

 

In fact, I've seen people commenting on how the average points-level of games has risen since 6th Edition released. I would conjecture this is because 6th Edition has caused a multiplication of the Problem Set combined with removal of tools to solve problems. Melee Weapons having AP now means certain Units which used to solve all Medium Infantry, Heavy Infantry, Shock Units and Heroic Characters now might only solve Medium Infantry. Flyers are an entirely new Problem, and a huge one. Going Full-Reserve used to help solve opposing lists which had overwhelming firepower. Cheap-Walkers used to be viable fixing forces and are now less reliable in that role. And the Allies system.... broke open Pandora's Box of complexity to the Problem Set. Writing a list which can maximize solutions to the Problem Set in a satisfactory way requires more points than it used to.

[terminatorAM]

In my opinion, 1500pts is the rock bottom where Blood Angels can build a well-rounded list. Our reliance on Force Multiplication Characters generates a "Fixed Cost" (link) which means Blood Angels have very few points left to invest into our variable costs.

 

Armies which have entirely or nearly entirely Variable Costs when list-writing (Imperial Guard, Necrons, Orks, certain Tyranid builds, and most MSU builds) always play more efficiently at below 1500pts.

 

If you consistently play at 1000pts, Warhammer 40k may look like a game of Rock-Paper-Scissors. For example, I won a small local 10-player 1000pt Tournament with a Mephiston/Corbulo/Two Land Raiders list. I was simply never matched up against somebody who had Turn1 melta shooting capability (the paper to my rock) so I smashed all the scissors.

 

Balanced List-writing requires examination of the full range of possibilities as a Problem Set. Your job is to maximize your ability to solve each Problem within the Set. The Problem Set requiring solutions includes Mass Light Infantry (aka Hordes), Mass Light Vehicles (aka MSU), Medium Infantry, Fast Infantry (Bikes/Jetbikes/Jump Packers), Heavy Infantry, Heavy Tanks/Armored Walkers, Monstrous Creatures, Alpha-strikers (Deep-Strike/Outflank), Heroic-level Independent Characters, Shock Units, and now Flyers (perhaps the straw [well...steel beam] that broke the camel's back, that last one).

 

Obtaining a Blood Angel list below 1500pts that can answer all those problems is.... absurd. Hence, build a 1000pt list which can solve about half but will do it amazingly, isn't too weak against a quarter, and has no solution at all versus the last fourth. Of course, you pick the half you can trash from what you've seen played at your local meta. That's the way I see it, to be honest.

 

In fact, I've seen people commenting on how the average points-level of games has risen since 6th Edition released. I would conjecture this is because 6th Edition has caused a multiplication of the Problem Set combined with removal of tools to solve problems. Melee Weapons having AP now means certain Units which used to solve all Medium Infantry, Heavy Infantry, Shock Units and Heroic Characters now might only solve Medium Infantry. Flyers are an entirely new Problem, and a huge one. Going Full-Reserve used to help solve opposing lists which had overwhelming firepower. Cheap-Walkers used to be viable fixing forces and are now less reliable in that role. And the Allies system.... broke open Pandora's Box of complexity to the Problem Set. Writing a list which can maximize solutions to the Problem Set in a satisfactory way requires more points than it used to.

 

Wow! I've heard this problem set in several ways before, but you my friend have written it so clearly and understandably that I feel like I should revisit all the lists I've ever written and make sure they still match this philosophy.

 

 

As you stated, much of the list building revolves around the meta game, but with 6th it is so hard to do this effectively without tailoring lists to oppose specific opponents. I personally play against 2 main opponents: termy heavy Grey Knights (not Driego) and Aspect heavy Eldar. Building a balanced list under 1500pnts is very hard even when thinking of just these 2 armies. I have to fit in alot of AP 2 shooting for the GK and more rapid fire and counter charge units for the Eldar so my lists never seem to have any of those popular gimmics or themes which used to be common in 5th.

 

On the bright side, 6th has made the game more interesting by expanding the rock/paper/scissors game to a more expansive level of intricacy making games more of a challenge while playing, not just while list building.

[CitadelArmyGuy]

On the bright side, 6th has made the game more interesting by expanding the rock/paper/scissors game to a more expansive level of intricacy making games more of a challenge while playing, not just while list building.

I completely agree! For me, 6th Edition is the most vibrant, fun and challenging version of 40k yet. Hater's gonna hate, but I think on the whole GW hit this one out of the park. There are kinks of course, but they have with-held publishing an FAQ for the main rulebook so... fingers crossed! ^_^

 

On topic for the OP-- you're gonna want to make selections based on multi-functionality, but need to be nearly the best for those functions. Example: 3x Mulitmelta Attackbikes, as noted.

 

Mephiston also solves a large number of Problems, and also generates a difficult Problem for your opponent. Many will decry his 250pts cost at low points games. But show me 250pts worth of anything else which will solve the same range of Problems he does. Of course, if the meta you face doesn't have the problems he solves, you're out of luck.

 

Also a consideration is redundancy. If only one unit is taken to solve a problem, the opponent may nullify it before it can execute its job. Therefore that Unit must either be resilient enough to survive, or possess ability to strike unmitigated (reserves is the most common tool for this). If it can do neither, then you must take two (or more) of that solution. A 1000pt list can be written which solves most of the Problem Set, but would be so diluted that it accomplishes none of them with redundancy.

 

And of course, a Problem which underlies most missions--- the Scoring Unit problem. Armies that can take Scoring Units which also efficiently solve Problems have an undeniable edge (IG, Necrons, Deathwing, Grey Knights)

 

Luckily for us, Assault Squads (ie Fast Infantry) are a bane of both IG and Necrons. Blood Angels are uniquely equipped to handle those opponents, especially BA lists which eschew Tanks, Flyers and Walkers. Scoring Assault Squads are a better than average problem-solver due directly to the decrease of Vehicle-survivability in melee combined with other changes to close combat.

 

If I wrote a 1000pt list today, I'd go with Mephiston, MM Attbikes, one JP Priest, and then as many RAS as possible. Alternatively, go with a Win Big or Lose Big approach (in true rock-paper-scissors style) and go Astorath with full DC. Winning through Tabling an opponent can be far easier at 1000pts. :P You will simply steamroll many builds, but you'll lose hard versus the Problems you can't handle.

[Djulius]

Not my usual BA tactics, but with new 6th Ed issues in 1000-1500 point lists I'm going to try out spending 260 odd points on a Sniper rifle Scout squad with Camo cloaks in Aegis Defence Line (3+ cover and can even go to ground for 1+ ?!) with quad gun to solve a number of problems:

1. Be an early scoring unit, especially on objective in own deployment area

2. Something to pin down enemy units and intercept drops from 48"

3. Something to precision shoot characters from 36"

4. Something to specifically take out flyers and armour (Heavy 4, skyfire, twin-linked @ BS4, S7 ... 3 glances a round likely?)

5. Because of all above will often draw fire early on from rest of army allowing them to get close.

 

Sounds expensive, but fulfilling a number of useful roles from turn 1, and I know there's a lot of flyers out there. Everything else can then focus on moving fast and hitting hard! What do you think?

[Remtek]

In my opinion, 1500pts is the rock bottom where Blood Angels can build a well-rounded list. Our reliance on Force Multiplication Characters generates a "Fixed Cost" (link) which means Blood Angels have very few points left to invest into our variable costs.

 

Armies which have entirely or nearly entirely Variable Costs when list-writing (Imperial Guard, Necrons, Orks, certain Tyranid builds, and most MSU builds) always play more efficiently at below 1500pts.

 

If you consistently play at 1000pts, Warhammer 40k may look like a game of Rock-Paper-Scissors. For example, I won a small local 10-player 1000pt Tournament with a Mephiston/Corbulo/Two Land Raiders list. I was simply never matched up against somebody who had Turn1 melta shooting capability (the paper to my rock) so I smashed all the scissors.

 

Balanced List-writing requires examination of the full range of possibilities as a Problem Set. Your job is to maximize your ability to solve each Problem within the Set. The Problem Set requiring solutions includes Mass Light Infantry (aka Hordes), Mass Light Vehicles (aka MSU), Medium Infantry, Fast Infantry (Bikes/Jetbikes/Jump Packers), Heavy Infantry, Heavy Tanks/Armored Walkers, Monstrous Creatures, Alpha-strikers (Deep-Strike/Outflank), Heroic-level Independent Characters, Shock Units, and now Flyers (perhaps the straw [well...steel beam] that broke the camel's back, that last one).

 

Obtaining a Blood Angel list below 1500pts that can answer all those problems is.... absurd. Hence, build a 1000pt list which can solve about half but will do it amazingly, isn't too weak against a quarter, and has no solution at all versus the last fourth. Of course, you pick the half you can trash from what you've seen played at your local meta. That's the way I see it, to be honest.

 

In fact, I've seen people commenting on how the average points-level of games has risen since 6th Edition released. I would conjecture this is because 6th Edition has caused a multiplication of the Problem Set combined with removal of tools to solve problems. Melee Weapons having AP now means certain Units which used to solve all Medium Infantry, Heavy Infantry, Shock Units and Heroic Characters now might only solve Medium Infantry. Flyers are an entirely new Problem, and a huge one. Going Full-Reserve used to help solve opposing lists which had overwhelming firepower. Cheap-Walkers used to be viable fixing forces and are now less reliable in that role. And the Allies system.... broke open Pandora's Box of complexity to the Problem Set. Writing a list which can maximize solutions to the Problem Set in a satisfactory way requires more points than it used to.

 

 

I kinda have to disagree, while i'm no expert 40k player. We mainly play 1000 point games. Our group consists of GK, Chaos, Orks,Space wolves, DA, Vanilla and Nids. My goal has always been to build a list that works well against all these races, trying to avoid building a 'counter' list. Though i think our options are somewhat limited on choices we do have strong cheap units. I'm pretty convinced fielding a Libby is a better option that Mephiston as he has some weak spots, he is completly usless vs assault termie lists (DA with Belial for example). I'd rather just have a Lib and Dev squad. Dev squads end up being MVP so many times as they work well against anything except pure termies (though ras/dc beat termies), they also draw fire per point well in cover.

 

 

In a 1k list you can for example field.

 

A JP Libby

20 RAS 4 melta

10DC in a pod

1 JP priest

1 Dev squad.

 

I've played this vs vanilla marines, terminators troops, horde, vindis and such. It's extremly mobile and dev's do great vs horde, meq and light veichles. With the mobility of a jumper list some opponents might be hard to table, but you do have tons of mobility. I guess what i'm trying to say is BA is totally viable

 

Now a heavy flyer list will be hard to deal with, but alot of races are having trouble with that regardless of points, though i dont want to comment to much on 1750 plus, has i have no experience with this.

[SamaNagol]

It seems that infantry heavy lists can 'ignore' flyers and focus on claiming objectives. BA given the 3+ save and FnP can feasibly be more resilient than many.

 

And with Jump Pack marines with Hammer of Wrath and Death Company rolling 4/5 attacks on the charge they should feasibly be able to put a hurting on blob squads

[Remtek]

Alot of players are dropping their DC pod first round regardless, i think that is a big mistake. With reserve rolls being buffed in 6th, getting them in when RAS is closing in seems like an optimal strategy in alot of situations. It also makes it more difficult for your opponent. 10 boltgun DC with 1 power weapon give you so much per point, and its not the end of the world if they get focused aswell. 3+ infantry with FNP are amazing vs the plasma meta.

[CitadelArmyGuy]

Our group consists of GK, Chaos, Orks,Space wolves, DA, Vanilla and Nids. My goal has always been to build a list that works well against all these races, trying to avoid building a 'counter' list. Though i think our options are somewhat limited on choices we do have strong cheap units. I'm pretty convinced fielding a Libby is a better option that Mephiston as he has some weak spots, he is completly usless vs assault termie lists (DA with Belial for example). I'd rather just have a Lib and Dev squad. Dev squads end up being MVP so many times as they work well against anything except pure termies (though ras/dc beat termies), they also draw fire per point well in cover.

 

In a 1k list you can for example field.

 

A JP Libby

20 RAS 4 melta

10DC in a pod

1 JP priest

1 Dev squad.

 

I've played this vs vanilla marines, terminators troops, horde, vindis and such. It's extremly mobile and dev's do great vs horde, meq and light veichles. With the mobility of a jumper list some opponents might be hard to table, but you do have tons of mobility. I guess what i'm trying to say is BA is totally viable

The above list is an example of an attempt for an All-rounder at 1000pts, you're right. However it only has weak (or non-redundant) answers against Heavy Infantry, Monstrous Creatures, Alpha-strikers (Deep-Strike/Outflank), Armored Walkers and Flyers. It has no answer to Heavy Tanks, Heroic-level Characters, and Shock Units. And while it has answers versus the other Problems in the Set, the only ones it does excellently against is Mass Light Infantry and Mass Light Vehicles. The list mentioned only has 15pts for melee special weapons... so would have to drop some bodies somewhere to get Power Axes if you hope to assume you can beat Mass Heavy Infantry. Also note this is one of the lists that Astorath+All DC would probably table. But this is all academic--- I'm neither personally attacking you nor the example list. I'm merely reaffirming that Blood Angels below 1500pts is a rock-paper-scissors affair.

[Remtek]

The above list is an example of an attempt for an All-rounder at 1000pts, you're right. However it only has weak (or non-redundant) answers against Heavy Infantry, Monstrous Creatures, Alpha-strikers (Deep-Strike/Outflank), Armored Walkers and Flyers. It has no answer to Heavy Tanks, Heroic-level Characters, and Shock Units. And while it has answers versus the other Problems in the Set, the only ones it does excellently against is Mass Light Infantry and Mass Light Vehicles. The list mentioned only has 15pts for melee special weapons... so would have to drop some bodies somewhere to get Power Axes if you hope to assume you can beat Mass Heavy Infantry. Also note this is one of the lists that Astorath+All DC would probably table. But this is all academic--- I'm neither personally attacking you nor the example list. I'm merely reaffirming that Blood Angels below 1500pts is a rock-paper-scissors affair.

 

 

I'm more worried about horde lists than heavy infantry (do you mean 2+ or meq? i'm thinking 2+) and armored walkers. Anything with less than AV 14 is managable. I havent played vs IG, or Tau, but i just dont see why BA is drawing any short straws in the 1k area. There are limitations to balancing in 1k, but im my opionion i think that is more in regards to less options in general for all races, dont see why it would be BA spesific. I dont really see many races dealing with flying lists at 1k and still staying balanced vs other armies. Hopefully flak will be Faq'ed in when GW has sold enough flying models :P

 

You have 4 meltas, the option of blood lance. Swap priest for more gear on DC and RAS or a flanking MM bike. Bottomline is RAS can deal with alot of units. I've played vs Belial and CML TH/SS terminators. It's a difficult match, but they do move slow and you can los CML. Walkers are slow as well and easily glanced to death by grenades or a melta shot in the rear. Heroic character's can be tarpited.

[Remtek]

Also note this is one of the lists that Astorath+All DC would probably table

 

I'd can't really see loosing to a list like this. Most of your armie moves 6" And DC are weak in the shooting phase. Normal DC unit's have a threat range of about 14" 6+8, anything further than this is unlikely to reach. Lirtugies only work on successful assaults. Now you could run boltgun DC, but they will get assaulted by RAS then. If you run JP DC the starting price is 35 per per model making them to expensive for any potential tabeling. DC dread is only AV 12 so he will die to any shooting followed by assault a very high percentage of the time. DC are really strong is 6th, but all their bonuses are reliant on making a successful assault. Mobility is their biggest enemy.

[SMcaptainAurelius]

Ok so there are basically two points of view being championed here. I don't think debating what would happen versus death company is that useful in answering the original question. It's the classic: focused list which does less but does it very well, compared to the balanced list which does more but does it less well.

 

I don't have a concrete position on this. I think at 1000 points you're going to struggle to build a satisfactory list in either school of thought. At 1500 I tend to lean more towards the focused approach but still with enough redundancy and flexibility to not always be looking for the all or nothing game. I think there is a significant grey area that most players naturally inhabit between the two positions.

 

Well done to CitadelArmyGuy for a very well written post.

 

Me personally, I don't think I'm a natural blood angel as I like to dominate the shooting phase, up close and far out, heavy and light it's all about the firefight. Devastators, cyclone terminators, tacticals, attack bikes, librarian. Also don't forget the rule of cool..

[CitadelArmyGuy]

... I havent played vs IG...

IG are king (in the hands of expert players) at 1000pts. Their army lists are entirely variable cost, they have less fixed-cost than any other codex. Fixed cost is not bad, just understand it pigeonholes you into only so many viable build-types. Also, BA fixed-cost expresses itself in Force Multiplication (Librarians and Priests) who are more efficient when they have more Units to multiply (which you will consequently have less of at such low points). But you are completely correct that BA are not the only codex to suffer balance issues at 1000pts. In fact, BA are not even the worst sufferers at really small points levels (...looks at White Scars and Mechanized-Eldar...). But not all races suffer at 1000pts. Tyranids and Necrons (ie the armies that have units which can 'spawn' new units) have a huuuge edge because they add points to the tabletop, which is very unbalancing at lower points games. Space Wolves have lower fixed-cost and higher ability generalists. And I've already mentioned Imperial Guard.

 

I'd can't really see loosing to a list like this. Most of your armie moves 6" And DC are weak in the shooting phase. Normal DC unit's have a threat range of about 14" 6+8, anything further than this is unlikely to reach. Lirtugies only work on successful assaults. Now you could run boltgun DC, but they will get assaulted by RAS then. If you run JP DC the starting price is 35 per per model making them to expensive for any potential tabeling. DC dread is only AV 12 so he will die to any shooting followed by assault a very high percentage of the time. DC are really strong is 6th, but all their bonuses are reliant on making a successful assault. Mobility is their biggest enemy.

 

Astorath and 21 Jump Pack DC with 3 Axes will easily beat the sample list you proposed. Start swapping for MM Attbikes and adding melee special weapons makes the job harder-- but the list you proposed had no melee special weapons (point I was trying to get at). I was merely stating that that one given sample list would get trounced by a JP DC list.

 

Anyhow, final thought--- yes, Heavy Infantry is 2+ Armor. Medium Infantry is MEQ or Multiwound 4+ saves. Light Infantry is low-toughness 4+ and any 5+.

[Remtek]

You make some good points. Though the list was a rough example of a general balanced composition. From what i'm reading IG seem to be very scary in general, at higher levels too. Necron players really got the shaft at 1k in 5th, so it will be interesting to see them in action now in 6th.

 

 

 

Back to OP regarding a 1500 point competitive list. I think its really hard to give an accurate answer as their are so many possible combinations with allies. If you want to roll some termies going Dark Angel could be a viable option for the Deathwing Termies and Belial. The best counter to flyers right now is to have flyers yourself. Aegis Lines are very good (you can spread them out into 4 cover areas ) you also have the option to add an anti air Las Cannon (35 points i think) or a Icarus assault cannon (50point str6 heavy4?). Bikes are awesome in 6th vs pretty much any list. POD Sternguard getting alot of MVP shoutouts as they are a good surgical unit vs alot of stuff due to cheap combi weapons and special ammunition. Land Raider's are actually better now in 6th edition as you can move further, they can still take a beating too. Boltgun POD DC are really strong in 6th. I think Sanguinary Guard are somewhat weak in 6th due to no invul save and plasma cannons being very popular, though i could be wrong its a difficult unit to play correct.

 

 

Sidenote on DC:

Astorath and 21 Jump Pack DC with 3 Axes will easily beat the sample list you proposed. Start swapping for MM Attbikes and adding melee special weapons makes the job harder-- but the list you proposed had no melee special weapons (point I was trying to get at). I was merely stating that that one given sample list would get trounced by a JP DC list.

The list was just a rough example on something balanced at 1k, yes some power weapons are needed in every list. Though you could just kite vs a 21dc astor.

Deploy Dev's as far away from the rest of your units possible, keep dc pod in reserve. Combat Squad Ras keep the 4 melta in reserve, Kill DC as long as possible with dev's (no saves or fnp) while kiting with ras and jumping around the map. DC will have to split to handle dev's or just stay together chasing, One could probably just continue to kite but the 4 melta drop in reserve is just for more options. If bad run rolls start splitting ras squads around the map and tarpit with pod dc midgame. Eventually drop the 2 combat squads on the opposite side of the map again and grab a few objectives and wait for the game to end.

 

Shouldt that do the trick on most missions?

[CitadelArmyGuy]

The list was just a rough example on something balanced at 1k, yes some power weapons are needed in every list.

Agreed--I think we've met in the middle now, acknowledging lack of power weapons decreases Blood Angel list-viability.

 

Deploy Dev's as far away from the rest of your units possible, keep dc pod in reserve. Combat Squad Ras keep the 4 melta in reserve, Kill DC as long as possible with dev's (no saves or fnp) while kiting with ras and jumping around the map. DC will have to split to handle dev's or just stay together chasing, One could probably just continue to kite but the 4 melta drop in reserve is just for more options. If bad run rolls start splitting ras squads around the map and tarpit with pod dc midgame. Eventually drop the 2 combat squads on the opposite side of the map again and grab a few objectives and wait for the game to end.

Well, the Pod must come in Turn 1 (see Drop Pod Assault rules). The Deep-striking RAS would almost certainly come in by Turn3, and 2 turns to hunt them is all I'd need (Alternatively, I can crowd the objectives and wait for them to come to me). I would place lots of terrain in the midboard to keep cover saves from the Devs. You won't get First Blood, you won't get Kill the Warlord. I would hunt down the RAS (your scorers) or babysit the objectives and that's all I'd need to do to win by 1 or 2 VPs (we'd both have Linebreaker, I might or might not have Killed the Librarian, and I would have First Blood).

 

Whether or not I could pull it off would be interesting (now that I've tipped my strategy). Anyhow, I feel we've derailed the thread enough hahaha.

[Joasht]

I'm curious; what do people usually take as their Troop choices in such games?

[SamaNagol]

As per the new FAQs, my list building priority is including Mephiston and a Stormraven

[Joasht]

As per the new FAQs, my list building priority is including Mephiston and a Stormraven

I'm still a bit unclear if Mephiston can be challenged, but it seems like right now someone can just throw his Sergeant in your face and have him eat all of Mephiston's attacks for that one turn.

[SamaNagol]

You'll still win the combat by 5 or 6.

[Morticon]

As per the new FAQs, my list building priority is including Mephiston and a Stormraven

I'm still a bit unclear if Mephiston can be challenged, but it seems like right now someone can just throw his Sergeant in your face and have him eat all of Mephiston's attacks for that one turn.

 

He totally can be challenged. He's a character.

[Remtek]

The whole challenge mechanic is kinda weird, every powerhouse IC are really prone to tarpitting. Delaying Mephiston one round is worth a great deal of points. But it open's up a whole new meta for gearing characters now and thats a good thing :lol: