an attempt to "fix" chaos

[carnosaur93]

so, well... greeting fellow brothers lurking in the dark depths of the B&C!

 

couldnt sleep tonight so i thought up a few things i feel could "fix" the current codex. theres not really much to say, i guess ill let my thoughts speak for themselves:

 

infantry:

 

 

the buffs from chaos icons are permanent, and thus does not dissapear after the icon-bearer dies, also icons

of chaos glory makes the unit fearless rather than its normal effect.

 

most infantry units (all that arnt fearless) gain the ability to reroll morale and pinning.

"the chaos legions may at large be undiciplined, but most are ancient hardened veterans, used to being on

the battlefield..."

 

when using posessed you may choose, NOT randomize, which daemonkin ablility the unit gains, the champion chooses two

(his personal choise may not be "scouts" or "fleet")

 

noise-marines' sonic blasters now only costs 3 points, the blastmaster costs 30

 

whenever an independant character or a squad champion dies, the daemons trapped inside him is released into

realspace, on a roll of 4+ place a chaos spawn in his stead, if no model is availble, or there is not room for its

base, ignore this. note that this only works once per terminator squad, no matter the amount of champions, or if the

champion or independant character is sacraficed to summon a greater daemon

 

one squad of chaos terminators in your army may take a landraider as a dedicated transport

 

---

 

large creatures and characters:

 

 

daemonprinces upgraded with wings becomes a flying monstrous creature, NOT jump monstrous creatures.

 

daemonprinces are now unique (you may only include 0-1 in your army), however they may choose to exchange their

close combat weapon for a deamon weapon at the cost of 60points. note that this does not effect allied princes.

 

when choosing psychic powers for sorcerers, aspireing sorcerers and daemonprinces, you gain one of the

chosen powers for free (this does not gain you any extra powers).

"those who spend their lives staring into the warp gains an unerving familiarity with it..."

 

chaos dreadnought rolling "fire frenzy" on their crazed-table, target the nearest ENEMY unit within their

cone of sight. when rolling blood rage, you may run AND assault in the same turn... both theese changes are in

addition to the normal rules detailed on the tables

 

any mark carried by your warlord is automatically applied to any summoned lesser or greater daemons (this does not

grant them an icon). if your warlord is undivided, they gain +1S. in the case of Abbadon being your warlord, you

may choose whatever mark you wish to apply to each individual unit.

 

if your warlord is either jump infantry or a flying monstrous creature, a single unit of chaos raptors counts

as scoring. if he rides a bike or a steed (excluding disc of tzeentch) a single chaos biker squad is scoring, and

if wearing terminator armour, a single squad of chaos terminators is scoring.

(wrapped in quotes for ease of reading)

 

so well. i think we can all agree chaos needs abit of fixing (atleast to be fun) so i am sorta planning on bringing this stuff to the local hobbyists (who shares the frustration) but would like to hear you guys' thoughts about the whole matter first, aswell as on the actual changes this little wall of text brings...

oh well let the "oh my god theese changes are stupid!" commence :)

 

:EDIT: i stayed away from named characters for now, as i feel they need a more focussed and indepth "fix"

[Saa]

Um.....you are aware that we're s'posed to have a new codex arriving imminently right? :P

 

I'd hang tight and see what GW's changes bring before you start a one man crusade to 'fix' Chaos ^_^

 

Saa

 

.....or something like that

[Excessus]

oh well let the "oh my god theese changes are stupid!" commence :P

Comments on your changes? No, not really. It's way more likely you'll get comments about why this thread even exists at all with the release of our next codex as close as it is...

[carnosaur93]

erh... last i checked releaase rumours arnt fact... i know it is very very likely that it will come soon, but the fact of the matter is that it might take another 5 years for all we KNOW... then theres also the point that IF the leaked release list are actually real and havnt come out intentionally from GW, theres a big chance that they will scramble things up to keep the secresity

[Vhalyar]

erh... last i checked releaase rumours arnt fact... i know it is very very likely that it will come soon, but the fact of the matter is that it might take another 5 years for all we KNOW... then theres also the point that IF the leaked release list are actually real and havnt come out intentionally from GW, theres a big chance that they will scramble things up to keep the secresity

No, not really. The stars are aligned to perfection :huh:

The codex is coming out within a very short period of time. There's a difference between 5 years of rumors like the Dark Eldar and the things pointing to Codex: Chaos Space Marine.

[Morollan]

erh... last i checked releaase rumours arnt fact... i know it is very very likely that it will come soon, but the fact of the matter is that it might take another 5 years for all we KNOW... then theres also the point that IF the leaked release list are actually real and havnt come out intentionally from GW, theres a big chance that they will scramble things up to keep the secresity

 

Whilst I agree that the codex is not FACT as yet, I very much doubt that there's more than a 0.01% chance of it not being the next codex to be released. The rumourmill might be wrong on specifics but they're not usually far out on the general.

[carnosaur93]

Whilst I agree that the codex is not FACT as yet, I very much doubt that there's more than a 0.01% chance of it not being the next codex to be released. The rumourmill might be wrong on specifics but they're not usually far out on the general.

 

yes that is indeed true, it just annoyes me in a bad way when something like this is apperently an invalid topic, simply becouse there MIGHT be a new codex on the way (which if i remember right have been the rumour that it is going to be released next for the last few years now)...

and as per this logic, pretty much all armies are invalid to talk about, since the rumours allways seem to point to everything not having been released within the year allready as to being next (as far as ive seen/heard lately, THE next codex is going to be daemons, CSM, eldar, imperial guard, vanilla marines, dark angels, tyranids, tau and black templars... they are somehow all next in the line according to where and who you ask)

 

it is pretty easy to win at horseracing if you bet on all the horses

[Trevak Dal]

*pure speculation* Maybe since ATSKNF is a USR now, Chaos Space Marines being Space Marines will get it?

[Chaos Lord Shamrockius]

To respond to the OP and avoid rumour robustness, I think you're changing things that are either surrounded by bigger issues than you can wish to fix on a forum (NMs, Possessed for example) and maybe take the response that this codex is a write off, it's a mess, accept it move on. Which I think is where everyone else is, as well as being bouyed by the rumours of the new codex being imminent.

 

The fixes themselves... They are ok. The uniqueness of the Princes is something that was necessary prior to the release of the last Codex and we all know who was asleep at the wheel there. I don't know what you're trying to achieve with some of it (sonic blasters at 3pts each for example). Some of the other stuff seems to be slightly overpowered, particularly around the psychic powers.

 

As for the robustness of the rumours, I think that's a discussion that is forever ongoing on every rumours thread on here that I think is best left there.

[Vesper]

erh... last i checked releaase rumours arnt fact... i know it is very very likely that it will come soon, but the fact of the matter is that it might take another 5 years for all we KNOW... then theres also the point that IF the leaked release list are actually real and havnt come out intentionally from GW, theres a big chance that they will scramble things up to keep the secresity

No, not really. The stars are aligned to perfection :D

The codex is coming out within a very short period of time. There's a difference between 5 years of rumors like the Dark Eldar and the things pointing to Codex: Chaos Space Marine.

 

Yup, according to the rumours, we'll get it in February 2012 ! Just can't wait !

Fixing Chaos ? Take 3.5 codex, lower the point costs, remove some things like "that legion can only be played with this mark", then you got the "bestest and greastest" codex around.

[carnosaur93]

I don't know what you're trying to achieve with some of it (sonic blasters at 3pts each for example). Some of the other stuff seems to be slightly overpowered, particularly around the psychic powers.

 

the reason for the sonic blasters (like most of theese ideas) is to simply make them more viable and balanced (what would the point of berzerkers be if you had to buy them weapons and furious charge at 10 points extra each). compared to say standart grayknights that have forceweapons, and a stormbolter, a noisemarine with a blaster will still be less bang for the buck, but within the codex itself, it becomes more balanced and viable like this

 

as for psykers, having the first power be free is actually still not as good as what other PA psykers get (where they simply get to choose 2 for free). however chaos sorcerors having the option for marks makes theese competitors quite equal... and in the case of TS squads, it simply makes the squad as a whole 10-30 points cheaper, which they really need to be (atleast)... finally the fact that the power is free will make it more worth it to try some of the more crazy powers

 

as for possessed, as far as ive seen their main problem is the fact that you cant rely on their caperbilities, simply getting to choose the mutations solves this (and the champion getting say furious charge or AP3 is simply nice and champion-y)

 

 

personally i still feel that many of the things are slightly underpowered, but then again, i have no desire to make chaos-negrayconbloodknight angels

[carnosaur93]

I don't know what you're trying to achieve with some of it (sonic blasters at 3pts each for example). Some of the other stuff seems to be slightly overpowered, particularly around the psychic powers.

 

the reason for the sonic blasters (like most of theese ideas) is to simply make them more viable and balanced (what would the point of berzerkers be if you had to buy them weapons and furious charge at 10 points extra each). compared to say standart grayknights that have forceweapons, and a stormbolter, a noisemarine with a blaster will still be less bang for the buck, but within the codex itself, it becomes more balanced and viable like this

 

as for psykers, having the first power be free is actually still not as good as what other PA psykers get (where they simply get to choose 2 for free). however chaos sorcerors having the option for marks makes theese competitors quite equal... and in the case of TS squads, it simply makes the squad as a whole 10-30 points cheaper, which they really need to be (atleast)... finally the fact that the power is free will make it more worth it to try some of the more crazy powers

 

as for possessed, as far as ive seen their main problem is the fact that you cant rely on their caperbilities, simply getting to choose the mutations solves this (and the champion getting say furious charge or AP3 is simply nice and champion-y)

 

 

personally i still feel that many of the things are slightly underpowered, but then again, i have no desire to make chaos-negrayconbloodknight angels

[Sception]

Whilst I agree that the codex is not FACT as yet, I very much doubt that there's more than a 0.01% chance of it not being the next codex to be released. The rumourmill might be wrong on specifics but they're not usually far out on the general.

 

Eh, I don't know. The only people saying definitively that the chaos book is out next month are people who said equally definitively that it would be out in August, and then in September. Yeah, we're probably next, but the pic on the back of the white dwarf is of a Dark Angel. I wouldn't put it past GW to release dark Angels Next, and then a Fantasy release since we'd seen a couple major 40k releases back to back, which would then put Chaos Marines some time towards the end of the year, or even push us to next year altogether.

 

Again, I don't think it will happen this way, I don't expect it, but it wouldn't surprise me either.

[Brother Nihm]

Rumours are rumours,

 

Rumours also say that C:CSM got delayed so I don't see what all the fuzz is about.

[Iron Sage]

Whilst I agree that the codex is not FACT as yet, I very much doubt that there's more than a 0.01% chance of it not being the next codex to be released. The rumourmill might be wrong on specifics but they're not usually far out on the general.

 

Eh, I don't know. The only people saying definitively that the chaos book is out next month are people who said equally definitively that it would be out in August, and then in September. Yeah, we're probably next, but the pic on the back of the white dwarf is of a Dark Angel. I wouldn't put it past GW to release dark Angels Next, and then a Fantasy release since we'd seen a couple major 40k releases back to back, which would then put Chaos Marines some time towards the end of the year, or even push us to next year altogether.

 

Again, I don't think it will happen this way, I don't expect it, but it wouldn't surprise me either.

 

Fair enough, but dont you think, as well as myself, that its highly, highly probable that a codex will come out sooner rather than later, given how we now have cultists (I am STILL waiting for my pre-ordered Limited DV box and this annoys me I shall note), new dreadnought model(at least aestetichs) and chosen?

I certainly do!

So while I agree that rumours are rumours, I will stress to say that there is a logical red line here, and so I for one, would be incredibly surprised if we get the codex for instance as late as November. I dont see how this would make any sense.

[Odsox]

The only people saying definitively that the chaos book is out next month are people who said equally definitively that it would be out in August, and then in September. Yeah, we're probably next, but the pic on the back of the white dwarf is of a Dark Angel. I wouldn't put it past GW to release dark Angels Next, and then a Fantasy release since we'd seen a couple major 40k releases back to back, which would then put Chaos Marines some time towards the end of the year, or even push us to next year altogether.

 

Agreed. Everyone loves a good guy (for some unconscionable bloody reason), and with the massive, DA-heavy imbalance in the boxed set it wouldn't surprise me in the least if GW release a new DA codex before a new CSm one. Despite the fact that we have new units but all the DA ones already exist...

 

Not bitter about it or anything,

 

Od.

[*Furyou Miko]

I don't know what you're trying to achieve with some of it (sonic blasters at 3pts each for example). Some of the other stuff seems to be slightly overpowered, particularly around the psychic powers.

 

the reason for the sonic blasters (like most of theese ideas) is to simply make them more viable and balanced (what would the point of berzerkers be if you had to buy them weapons and furious charge at 10 points extra each). compared to say standart grayknights that have forceweapons, and a stormbolter, a noisemarine with a blaster will still be less bang for the buck, but within the codex itself, it becomes more balanced and viable like this

 

 

 

Grey Knights should not be used as a baseline comparison for anything outside the Elites slot.

 

Playing Grey Knights is like playing an entire army of Chosen and Aspiring Terminators.

[carnosaur93]

Grey Knights should not be used as a baseline comparison for anything outside the Elites slot.

 

Playing Grey Knights is like playing an entire army of Chosen and Aspiring Terminators.

 

the comparison between the two is actually more valid than at first glance, afterall, the cult troops are supposed to have an elite feel close to that of GK (in terms of troops) and a sonic blaster is really just an ever so slightly better stormbolter (not counting psybolts), so for shooting, the base units are pretty similar, also, my comparison was slightly ment to point out that gryknights is waaay too much for their point cost (an EC marine with blaster comes in at 25pts a peice, and that is basicly a fearless I5 marine with stormbolter... not really worth it at all)