How do you use RW?

[Sviar]

Well, the time has come for me to build up a proper RW.I have mostley always run a GW(not the company) and on a few occasions a DW. I have seldom even used a FA slot, so I have booked a few games so I can gain some experience on running a RW.

Do you equip them with plasma/melta or CCW? Or is it 50/50. Would you say that the RW has gained or lost in the 6:th edition? Any tip would be appreciated.

[Nightmare84]

I like ravenwing. Has got slightly better this edition. Jink is nice, so far I have used my 6 man squad to speed around unleashing plasma shots. They get ignored mostly and has usually turned in my favour.

Hammer of wrath is ok, nothing spectacular, but hell a few extra lucky kills is not bad. Just don't expect meq to fall over often.

[march10k]

suicide melta is the usual use for most people. Some who are fielding sammy will use a plasma squad with apothecary. I go a different route. I like to take a squadron of six with dual melta and MMAB. The MMAB goes on one flank, the rest of the squadron on the other. I take an interrogator chaplain on a bike, but don't attach him just yet. I scout both elements, with the regular bikes leaving a "tail" so that the chappy can join up on turn one. On turn one, I DWA 11 or so termies off of the regular bikes, then scoot in between the two termie squads and charge something, both to prevent that something from charging the termies preemptively, and to obstruct LOS for enemy shooting that might be directed at the termies. That way, I'm dumping about a thousand points into one flank of the enemy line on turn one. Meanwhile, I still have a terminator squad in reserve, and an attack bike with a telehomer on the opposite flank, with the effect that he can't totally sell out to a counterattack on the flank that I've overloaded. Meanwhile, I have whatever's left in my army (about 500 points worth at 1850) advancing up the middle, such as a crusaderload of thundernators. That makes the enemy fight me to the front and both flanks, meaning that he can't effectively respond to my rolling up of the one flank. It's all made possible by the bikes, though...

[librisrouge]

Be aware that, because of the current rules in the BRB for scout you can attach a IC to a scouting unit and they don't loose scout.

[Brother Kovash]

I've been using mine as suicide melta squads, just as Brother march10k stated. After that, they become homing beacons for my Deathwing squads. With 6th edition out now, I can finally get around to building my Ravenwing army and start using them in force.

[Grand Master Springemann]

My gaming group just started an escalation league and I have been playing a RW army. I have had some decent luck with but without special weapons on the bikes it is kinda of hard to take advantage of there speed. When I use them with my DW my gaming group tend to target my bikes because they know what is coming with them and the melta shots that tend to take out a large chunk of there armor.

[march10k]

Be aware that, because of the current rules in the BRB for scout you can attach a IC to a scouting unit and they don't loose scout.

 

 

Well, that's a welcome change! Makes the tactic slightly more effective, since the chappy is now likely to be able to participate in the first round of combat...of course, with an AP4 crozius, the utility of his participation has dropped...

[cypherthefallenangel]

Ive been trying to build the 2nd company for a few years now. Im up to 30 bikes, 5 melta attackbikes, both samuals, and about 7 speeders. the ravenwing is one of the coolest looking armies but until we get the new codex it always under preforms. They are way too expensive points wise. 6 bikes with no upgrades or attackbike is 220pts and you have to take samual @ 205 to make them troops. so at low point games(under 2k) don't even bother with them unless it is to support some DWing terminators.

I really hope the new codex fixes the problem because the only option for a competitive DA army is deathwing. I would love to play my ravenwing and actually win a game once and awile.

[Azrael Turnbull]

Land Speeder Typhoons are absolutely essential to balance your Ravenwing force. Arming them with Multi Melta's means that you have a 75pt model that costs other codex's 90pts. That makes it the only model (barring multi melta armed attack bikes) that will actually save you points.

 

Plasma has a habit of burning up your toughness 5 bikers, so I advise only equipping them on the squad with 'Feel No Pain'. The attack bikes are suicide bombers, no two ways about it. If you don't whack them in to the biggest tanks your enemy has, they will die anyway.

 

Tornados are so-so. You get what you pay for with those.

 

The bikes themselves are too expensive, hence the necessity oh having the Typhoons to bring the cost back down. 190pts for 8 Space Marine bikes compare to 220pts for 6. However, you will need to stock up these basic bikes for your army to have any backbone. Even with such a small and fast army, unsupported Land Speeders will be easy pickings, especially in 6th.

 

Here is my 1.5K list. It's not the best Ravenwing list out there, but it works and it looks good on the field:

 

Sammael on Jetbike or Landspeeder depending on opponent

 

Ravenwing Assault Squad x 6 W/ Full Raven Command Upgrades and double Plasmagun. Sergeant has Power Sword (I also modelled on a Combat Shield to make him look like a Company Championm but this obviously serves no in game effect). Attack Bike and Land Speeder add ons included. These guys are only for hitting infantry.

 

Ravenwing Assault Squad x 6 W/ Melta and Flamer. Sergeant has Power Sword. These guys are for hitting infantry, but have a Meltagun just incase. Attack Bike and Land Speeder add ons included.

 

Ravenwing Assault Squad x 3 W/ Double Melta and Powerfist. Attack bike included. These guys focus on anti tank or bolstering the other larger units.

 

Typhoons x 3

 

That's 5 land speeders (barring Sammael), 15 bikes and 3 attack bikes. Still quite small, but it doesn't lose often.

 

Ravenwing are not an army that can play itself like the Deathwing. You will need to gain experience. No when to outflank, when to charge and where to focus your firepower with time. The best thing about the Ravenwing is how quickly they can take out the unit you want to say goodbye to the most.

[EPK]

Land Speeder Typhoons are absolutely essential to balance your Ravenwing force. Arming them with Multi Melta's means that you have a 75pt model that costs other codex's 90pts. That makes it the only model (barring multi melta armed attack bikes) that will actually save you points.

 

Actually 100 points for a Typhoon w/MM in C:SM. DA get the MM for free. So that much better of a buy, 25 point difference.

 

On another note, has anyone tested outfitting a RW sarge with a Power Lance? Is it worth the extra str on the charge then dropping to AP4? (maybe if you could have a whole squad of them??) Azrael Turnbull - that would really look the knightly part with the shield you mentioned.

[Azrael Turnbull]

Land Speeder Typhoons are absolutely essential to balance your Ravenwing force. Arming them with Multi Melta's means that you have a 75pt model that costs other codex's 90pts. That makes it the only model (barring multi melta armed attack bikes) that will actually save you points.

 

Azrael Turnbull - that would really look the knightly part with the shield you mentioned.

 

I have to admit, that is incredibly tempting. I will keep my current model as he is, as I want all of my Champions to have Power Swords, but I may make an additional squad with a Lance Sergeant. And a Chaplain...

 

Of course, all of these decision will wait until what codex is released at the end of this month. You never know, we may actually get Company Champions for 1st and 2nd company.

[Garath]

Played 6 bikes with PF Searge and 2 meltas just today in a 2-2 game 2000 pts each. Scouted them forward and teleported in 3 Deathwing squads, proceeded to burn 2 necron destroyers, a predator and a space marine captain...and 2 survived till the end.

 

I was thinking of fielding something like:

 

Samael on Jetbike

 

Librarian on Bike (with Divination)

 

Troops: 6 Bikes, 2 meltas, PF/PW searge,apothecary

 

Attack bike with MM

 

Fast attack 3 Land speeders- one Typhoon + HB,one Assault cannon + MM , one with MM

 

 

The idea is to give hit re-rolls to the squads that need them using Divination's primary power. Librarian joins the bike squad . This combines wonderfully with deepstriking DW sqauds...

 

 

Could Samael join the bike squad too?

[Azrael Turnbull]

Played 6 bikes with PF Searge and 2 meltas just today in a 2-2 game 2000 pts each. Scouted them forward and teleported in 3 Deathwing squads, proceeded to burn 2 necron destroyers, a predator and a space marine captain...and 2 survived till the end.

 

I was thinking of fielding something like:

 

Samael on Jetbike

 

Librarian on Bike (with Divination)

 

Troops: 6 Bikes, 2 meltas, PF/PW searge,apothecary

 

Attack bike with MM

 

Fast attack 3 Land speeders- one Typhoon + HB,one Assault cannon + MM , one with MM

 

 

The idea is to give hit re-rolls to the squads that need them using Divination's primary power. Librarian joins the bike squad . This combines wonderfully with deepstriking DW sqauds...

 

 

Could Samael join the bike squad too?

 

 

Sammael is not an independent character so he can't join units. The only thing worth giving re rolls to are your Land Speeders, and you must consider this: your Land Speeders can not be in the same unit. It looks like you put them in the same unit, so I apologise if this is not the case. The reason is that only one Land Speeder per squad can become a Typhoon or Tornado. Therefore, you have over 100pts on a relatively weak character that can make only one Land Speeder re roll per turn.

 

In addition, the squad of 6 and the attack bike count as 1 troops choice collectively. You need another to meet the minimum.

 

I would like to persuade you not to use a 2nd HQ. Your army is expensive and small enough as it is, so you should use those points to put in more bikers. If you insist on having a second HQ, then it should be a Chaplain to provide your command bike squad with some hitting power.

 

This is my advice to you, but what you do with it is your decision. Good luck to you and your new Ravenwing army!

[Garath]

Forgot to mention that this is more a concept- I was talking about deepstriking DW squads - and they could use the re-roll.

Land speeders , are in fact all in the same unit- I know if they split up ,more typhoons can be taken, but then they also count as separate units and killpoints.

 

Giving re-roll to land speeder squadrons is sweet, and very 4th ed style when Master of the ravenwing gave them that by himself- ah, the good old days

[march10k]

They are way too expensive points wise. 6 bikes with no upgrades or attackbike is 220pts

As opposed to ten tactical marines with no upgrades for 165 points? With true T5, their ridiculous speed, twinlinked boltguns, and all the special rules, I wouldn't say they're overcosted. I would say that they're a niche unit, and that there are therefore problems associated with making an entire army out of them...but that's not the same as being overcosted.

 

190pts for 8 Space Marine bikes compare to 220pts for 6.

 

Would I complain about a points cut? Of course not! But between the special rules, the synergy with DW, and the fact that they can be made scoring...it's not a terrible deal. I don't think they're overcosted...but I do think that 25 points appiece for the C:UM bikes is broken.

[Garath]

Yeah, they do cost points- the question remains how we use them- I used mine in 3 man squads ,but my new thing is 6 man sqauds equipped for cc. They hunt tanks and shooty squads. That way they are not an easy kill points- and must be dealt with !

If not, they will fry a tank and earn me first blood VP- and everything they do after that is just gravy.

 

In a combined DW / RW list (with a tactical squad to hold nearest the objective) - 6 bikes cost as much as 5 termies(ok a bit more) and unlike termies can deal with tanks with shooting and add mobility.

 

Let's not forget they are fearless, which is very important. Skilled rider and jink- provide 4+ cover if turboing (is that a word???)

 

I'd say they're not over costed

[Azrael Turnbull]

Skilled rider and jink- provide 4+ cover if turboing (is that a word???)

 

I'd say they're not over costed

 

Unless I missed this in one of the FAQ's, our bikes do not have skilled rider. Please someone correct me if this is in the FAQ, as I would love to abuse this.

 

March10k, I understand what you are saying about C:SM bikes potentially being under costed. 20 points and 2 less men to give you all of those benefits is a very generous deal. However, I still think Ravenwing are too expensive. Maybe 190pts for only 6 bikes, or somewhere inbetween the two extremes. It is my experience that when I play my Ravenwing, it can feel like I'm absolutely dominating my opponent, only to find that I have lost in terms of victory points (in 5th edition, my friends and I refused to convert to 'kill points' so stayed with 'victory points'). Nothing went wrong, I didn't have any particular case of bad luck, but the results were clear. This makes me feel that the Ravenwing bikes are too expensive.

 

As for the affinity with the Deathwing, it is brilliant when you are using the to together, but what if you only wanted to field Ravewing? And optional points increase for teleport homers, for example, instead of having them permanently.

[Master Avoghai]

(in 5th edition, my friends and I refused to convert to 'kill points' so stayed with 'victory points'). Nothing went wrong, I didn't have any particular case of bad luck, but the results were clear. This makes me feel that the Ravenwing bikes are too expensive.

 

Could I suggest to make a double-count (VP and KP) to really make an opinion? No offense but your argument sounds like "Iuse termi with 4+ save and I find them overcosted" :D

 

If you don't use all the rules then it's obvious that you may lose battle and don't feel that bikes are worth their points... KP don't include the 50% count whereas VP do... This does make importance with RW as a 6 man squadron lowered to 2 man will give about 125pt to your opponent while they'll bring 0 KP... could make a difference could'nt it?

[march10k]

what if you only wanted to field Ravewing?

 

What if you only wanted to field jetbikes in an eldar army because you like saim hann? Same problem. Nobody forces you to field a ravenwing-pure army. They were designed to be splashed into green and even white armies, not to stand alone as a black army. If you field a single squadron of ravenwing in the context of a larger force, you'll never feel like you didn't get your points' worth. Their points cost is appropriate. Fielding 20+ bikes in isolation from any other forces is neither competitive nor fluffy. The Ravenwing is the premier reconnaisance force in the galaxy, it's not a front line combat force. Play a combat patrol with them, and you may find that they kick tons of butt...and 400 points is probably the largest size of a game where it's fluffy for them to be out on their own instead of supporting a proper army. Three units of three bikes each, two units with dual flamers, and one with dual meltas comes out to exactly 400 points...and it's brutal. They have the speed to avoid anything they want to, and converge all nine bikes to pick off a target, hitting it with two meltas and four flamers before charging in with nine T5 marines who get the bonus attacks same as jumpers...it would be hard not to win...of course, that doesn't scale well into proper-sized games...

[Azrael Turnbull]

(in 5th edition, my friends and I refused to convert to 'kill points' so stayed with 'victory points'). Nothing went wrong, I didn't have any particular case of bad luck, but the results were clear. This makes me feel that the Ravenwing bikes are too expensive.

 

Could I suggest to make a double-count (VP and KP) to really make an opinion? No offense but your argument sounds like "Iuse termi with 4+ save and I find them overcosted" :)

 

If you don't use all the rules then it's obvious that you may lose battle and don't feel that bikes are worth their points... KP don't include the 50% count whereas VP do... This does make importance with RW as a 6 man squadron lowered to 2 man will give about 125pt to your opponent while they'll bring 0 KP... could make a difference could'nt it?

 

This is amongst my friends. At the Workshop gaming evenings, I obviously can't do this. I do win games that aren't 'victory point' related, but it doesn't feel like winning as much. I much prefer the 6th edition missions, where it's not as easy to win a game by simply popping Rhino's.

 

Anyway, I'm very confident that the end of this month will give us a new codex, so things are probably going to be changing. :huh:

[Master Avoghai]

Sure but if you do win games with KP (or with objectives) with your bikes then they're balanced... Your "not feeling like winning as much" mood is not bikes' nor GW's fault... Just a consequence of your choice and a personnal feeling of what game results should looks like.

 

But on an objective PoV if 5th ed has particular victory conditions and RW bikers allow you to fullfill them in a convenient manner, then they're balanced.

 

 

Don't misunderstand me. I DO think they're overpriced but it's more based on the way the game works. More and more army work on saturation : lots of shoots particulary S5 or S6 shoots. As a consequence, you can easily outpass them in a shooting phase (3+ are easily missed when you saturate a target with W). And as for CC phase, we both know it's not their quality....

So I think I can't use them properly... Even as addition in my GW force...Maybe it's me...

 

But as you say let's keep hope in the new dex...

[Garath]

Ravenwing, as any other bike army is very hard to play... but bikes are not (or have ever been) the true strenghts of Ravenwing...

 

 

Check this out:

 

 

Samael 205

 

Librarian on bike 160

 

 

Troops: 6 bikes,2 meltas 240

 

6 bikes,2 meltas 240

 

Fast attack: 1st squad 5 land speeders:

 

#1 - Heavy bolter 65 pts

 

#2 - Heavy bolter+ Typhoon m.launcher 75

 

#3 - Heavy bolter + Assault cannon 100

 

#4- Heavy bolter 65 pts

 

#5- Heavy bolter 65 pts

 

370 pts

 

2nd squad 3 land speeders:

 

#1 - Heavy bolter 65 pts

 

#2 - Heavy bolter+ Typhoon m.launcher 75

 

#3 - Heavy bolter + Assault cannon 100

 

 

 

3rd squad 5 land speeders:

 

 

3 land speeders:

 

#1 - Heavy bolter 65 pts

 

#2 - Heavy bolter+ Typhoon m.launcher 75

 

#3 - Heavy bolter + Assault cannon 100

 

 

 

If I've done the math correctly this will roughly be around 1750- Librarian gives re-rolly and basically drives his bike squad around the field. The other bike squad does the same and they all hunt targets of opportunity. If needed they all combat squad and stay far away from the enemy to deny them their kill points, and go for those last turn objective grabbing turbo boosts.

 

Land speeders and Samael go to town by smashing one flank of the enemy ,then doing a side sweep. 36 heavy bolter shots, 4 assault cannons and 3 Cyclones concentrated on 2-3 units a turn are a lot of firepower.

 

Comments

[egon1six]

Not a legal army. Sorry you only have one troop choice.

[Master Avoghai]

Nope he has 2 : 2 squadrons of 6 with 2 meltas

 

I'm curious to know how you can claim objective in v6 with so few bikes however...

[Garath]

Combat squad into 4 squads if needed