New FAQ's are up

[march10k]

The biggest boost here is to venerable dreads. This is gonna make multi-melta and assault cannon ven dreads more useful. It's not all that worth it for most other configurations though.

 

I wouldn't say it really did much to help vennies...it seems to me that the BS boost merely partially offsets the massive loss in survivability that stems from the fact that venerable status doesn't protect against getting HPed to death...even with the stat boost, it's probably not worth 30 points.

 

Sammael's speeder has it's hull points clarified too (it's two btw).

 

It always was two. Only the galactically stupid and the criminally cheaterish ever suggested otherwise. I'm glad GW included it in the FAQ, though, or else they'd still be insisting that, because it's nickname is "flying land raider," it should have four hull points...or whatever that nonsense was.

[BigGumbo]

Bulky = Counts as 2 Models

Very Bulky = Counts as 3 Models

Extremely Bulky = Counts as 5 Models

 

Page 35 of the 6th Ed Rulebook.

 

There is no 10 model version of Bulky listed.

Yep, my bad. Not that it makes any odds as things currently stand, although the possibility of a bike transport is appealing...

[Augustus]

Has anyone played a game with this new FAQ?

[Darkangeldentist]

I've managed a few games with the new FAQ, took part in a small local doubles tournament over the weekend. My original partner failed to turn up but someone else was in the same boat so all was well in the end. The doubles format allowed us 800pts each but we had to share a single force organisation chart (so we each could only have a single HQ but also only needed to bring a single troops choice) which made for some interesting lists and combinations. Facing battle brother marines with split-fire was not nice whereas a similar set up but with stealth as the benefit was almost worse to face...anyway on to what I took and how I got on.

 

Since I only needed a single troops choice I took a tactical squad with plasma cannon and sergeant with powersword and melta bombs. They weren't impressive but they did ok and made their presence felt well enough. My HQ was a librarian in terminator armour who paired up with a squad of deathwing with cyclone and storm bolter terminators, only the sergeant sported a thunderhammer and stormshield. (The librarian was using divination powers.) The rest of my points went on a venerable dreadnought with assault cannon and landspeeder typhoon. (Being too cheap is a big plus!) My partner was using grey knight terminators and a dreadknight so the model count was way down but we were sporting a heck of a lot of 2+ saves.

 

The dreadnought did die in most of the games and the hull points does make it more fragile, gone are the days when they would eternally vex opponents by refusing to die. On the other hand it is a lot fairer and I would still say it's worth the points getting them. They do a lot and if you are lucky with cover then they can still prove a pain for people to deal with. (In spite of the increased value of krak grenades and melta bombs.) The land speeder was a similar story, when people paid attention to it, it died. I wasn't very lucky with my jink saves but it came good in a couple of games and to be honest speeders are I think better than before. Having two hull points means that the first glancing hit won't stop you shooting next turn and the jink save generally means there's a chance the opponent won't do anything.

 

The deathwing and librarian were frankly sickeningly good, precognition on the librarian was preposterously powerful and prescience is similarly great but placement of models is key. They didn't survive every game and most opponents did their very best to kill them through weight of fire but my dice were good and most of the time I still have at least one bone armoured warrior wandering the table dealing death where needed.

 

So all in all the new FAQ is a bit of a bump up in power and versatility for us and 6th in general has been good for the Dark angels.

 

Deathwing assault was used in every game by the way and it remains the single best reason why Deathwing should be feared in a regular list. Having that forward unit right in the enemies face from turn one is extremely potent and with the improved combat value of terminators they are more likely to cause opponents grief.

[RayJ]

Why do Bikes need a transport rating in the first place?

 

There is a Necron transport that is capable of carrying Jetbikes and Jump Infantry (Night Scythe), and Necrons have a jetbike unit (Tomb Blades).

 

As for Sammael & Being unique:

 

He is a Character, giving him access to Precision Strikes/Shots and Challenges. He is not an Independent Character though, so he is not able to join another unit, and thus cannot benefit from Look Out Sir!

 

He is capable of being your warlord because he is an HQ choice Character w/ the highest leadership.

[Artemid]

Interesting comment about the DWA: Every time I try it, I get decent rolls and plop my termies down right in their faces for the squad to get utterly obliterated next turn by shooting.

[FerociousBeast]

You should probably angle more for their shoulders or buttocks than their faces ;)

[Artemid]

You should probably angle more for their shoulders or buttocks than their faces ;)

 

Yeah probably I've just never seemed to have room to do that without worrying about them scattering off the table or into a unit.

[Cactus]

Interesting comment about the DWA: Every time I try it, I get decent rolls and plop my termies down right in their faces for the squad to get utterly obliterated next turn by shooting.

That's where you might be going wrong. Try to land out of sight of as many enemy models as possible. Easier said than done, I know, and very dependent on the terrain. Concentrating two or three squads on one flank where they're in a position to charge next turn should mean the lines of fire from most enemy units are blocked and maybe even cause some panicked shuffling of units as the enemy try to reposition. If there's a risk of AP2 blast weapons firing on you then run to spread out, otherwise consider softening the enemy up with some shooting.

 

This probably isn't the place for a discussion of Deathwing assault however! As for the FAQ, I've only played one game of 6th ed so it's all new rules to me. I'm pleased with the introduction of the rulebook psychic powers though. I honestly can't remember the last time I used a librarian outside an Apocalypse game, so probably not since 3rd ed, but they're actually fun now!

[ValourousHeart]

As for Sammael & Being unique:

 

He is a Character, giving him access to Precision Strikes/Shots and Challenges. He is not an Independent Character though, so he is not able to join another unit, and thus cannot benefit from Look Out Sir!

 

He is capable of being your warlord because he is an HQ choice Character w/ the highest leadership.

 

 

I agree but it seems odd that half the time (jetbike) he can be the Warlord... and half the time (speeder) he can't.

It isn't like I can field both at the same time... It is just 1 character.

It is like saying Khan can only be a Warlord if he walks... but not if he takes his bike.

 

It is just odd that if I want the speeder in my pure RW army, I am forced to take a Chaplin or Librarian (who has a lower LD) on a Bike to act as the Warlord instead of the master of the chapter I am fielding.

[cielaq]

Maybe we should just ask GW if Sammy on speeder is Character, or can be chosen as Warlord (if he isn't). If Bjorn can be exception, then why not Sammy?

[librisrouge]

Not only that but if he can't make Sammy the Warlord then doesn't that mean he can't be the only HQ in a list? This throws a huge burden on Ravenwing armies that don't need any more burdens than they already have.

[BigGumbo]

I wonder whether the whole Sammy as Warlord issue isn't being overanalysed here. He is an HQ choice whether in speeder or on bike; Sammael himself has a leadership value, given in his profile, whether in speeder or on bike (it's just that his Ld only has a game impact if he's on the bike since Vehicles don't have leadership characteristics).

 

It seems obvious to me that if you're taking Sammael and he is the only HQ choice in the army, then he must be the Warlord in any case since he is by definition the HQ choice with the highest leadership - there being no other HQ choices in the army with equal or higher Ld.

 

I can see an argument for the other HQ choice being the Warlord if you have a second HQ and Speeder Sammy but I'd still go with his profile Ld10 making him the Warlord. Employing common sense for a moment: does anyone think it's in any way fluffy for the Warlord of an army, which includes a company master, to be the librarian or chaplain that's been brought along with the rest of the boys? Really?

 

It's not as though the Warlord's Ld is actually used for anything Warlord-related in-game, so I really think this is a non-issue.

[publius]

I've managed a few games with the new FAQ, took part in a small local doubles tournament over the weekend. My original partner failed to turn up but someone else was in the same boat so all was well in the end. The doubles format allowed us 800pts each but we had to share a single force organisation chart (so we each could only have a single HQ but also only needed to bring a single troops choice) which made for some interesting lists and combinations. Facing battle brother marines with split-fire was not nice whereas a similar set up but with stealth as the benefit was almost worse to face...anyway on to what I took and how I got on.

 

Since I only needed a single troops choice I took a tactical squad with plasma cannon and sergeant with powersword and melta bombs. They weren't impressive but they did ok and made their presence felt well enough. My HQ was a librarian in terminator armour who paired up with a squad of deathwing with cyclone and storm bolter terminators, only the sergeant sported a thunderhammer and stormshield. (The librarian was using divination powers.) The rest of my points went on a venerable dreadnought with assault cannon and landspeeder typhoon. (Being too cheap is a big plus!) My partner was using grey knight terminators and a dreadknight so the model count was way down but we were sporting a heck of a lot of 2+ saves.

 

The dreadnought did die in most of the games and the hull points does make it more fragile, gone are the days when they would eternally vex opponents by refusing to die. On the other hand it is a lot fairer and I would still say it's worth the points getting them. They do a lot and if you are lucky with cover then they can still prove a pain for people to deal with. (In spite of the increased value of krak grenades and melta bombs.) The land speeder was a similar story, when people paid attention to it, it died. I wasn't very lucky with my jink saves but it came good in a couple of games and to be honest speeders are I think better than before. Having two hull points means that the first glancing hit won't stop you shooting next turn and the jink save generally means there's a chance the opponent won't do anything.

 

The deathwing and librarian were frankly sickeningly good, precognition on the librarian was preposterously powerful and prescience is similarly great but placement of models is key. They didn't survive every game and most opponents did their very best to kill them through weight of fire but my dice were good and most of the time I still have at least one bone armoured warrior wandering the table dealing death where needed.

 

So all in all the new FAQ is a bit of a bump up in power and versatility for us and 6th in general has been good for the Dark angels.

 

Deathwing assault was used in every game by the way and it remains the single best reason why Deathwing should be feared in a regular list. Having that forward unit right in the enemies face from turn one is extremely potent and with the improved combat value of terminators they are more likely to cause opponents grief.

 

This largely matches my experiences with 6th edition. The new psyker rules make Librarians, even our Ld9 ones, a good buy. Remember we're the only Space Marines who can take Divination, and I'm beginning to feel like it has the most synergy with marines (if all else fails, the primaris power is awesome). It's also revived my long-dormant interest in greenwing DAs, as the new rapid fire and character challenge rules give Tactical squads a much needed boost. Overall 6e has been good to the older, less powerful codexes, ours included.

 

At first it seemed like everybody predicted power axes would become standard on sergeants, but now power swords seem to be winning over. The main reason for this is challenges, and more often than not a SM sergeant with a power sword will win over a power axe. The exceptions seem to be the cases where the sergeant is facing a character, a terminator sergeant, or something like tricksy Eldar Exarchs, but if you're fighting them in close combat with unsupported tactical squads chances are you've made a mistake, or the game is already going poorly.

[RayJ]

Remember we're the only Space Marines who can take Divination, and I'm beginning to feel like it has the most synergy with marines (if all else fails, the primaris power is awesome).

 

Correction: of all the Space Marine chapters with psykers (including GK), only Codex: Space Marines loses access to divination. IG match Codex: Space Marines for available powers.

 

That being said, the librarian got a decent boost. I have become partial to taking 1 divination power and 1 telepathy power on the DW Librarian. Divination gives you lots of good options, and Psychic Shriek gives you an awesome weapon to use on elite units (or horde units in conjunction with an IG Psyker Battle Squad using Weaken Resolve).

[Brother-Captain Sharp]

I wouldn't say it really did much to help vennies...it seems to me that the BS boost merely partially offsets the massive loss in survivability that stems from the fact that venerable status doesn't protect against getting HPed to death...even with the stat boost, it's probably not worth 30 points.

Well, it's only 20 points for Venerable for us, as opposed to 60 for C:SM. So even though the atrocious loss of survivability has made me a sad panda ever since 6th dropped, we at least have something to hold over those C:SM boys otehr than Deathwing. :lol:

[Darmor]

I wonder whether the whole Sammy as Warlord issue isn't being overanalysed here. He is an HQ choice whether in speeder or on bike; Sammael himself has a leadership value, given in his profile, whether in speeder or on bike (it's just that his Ld only has a game impact if he's on the bike since Vehicles don't have leadership characteristics).

That's not totally correct, because his Rites of Battle (which is based on his Leadership value) still work, even when he rides the Speeder. That's specifically noted in his rules.

If he can use his Ld for in-game purpose, why can't he be chosen as a Warlord?

[HsojVvad]

Did they forget to change the date? They all say July

 

EDIT: I guess update date and release date are two different things. The first round of FAQs was technically updated before the 6th ed. was released (which makes sense).

Wow, you are just noticing July? What about when you go to the FAQ page before you actually see the FAQs the FAQ articles, they call it, it says last updated, September 2011, I believe. (going by memory, since I have CRS, I could be wrong about that part. :lol:)

[pueriexdeus]

I wouldn't say it really did much to help vennies...it seems to me that the BS boost merely partially offsets the massive loss in survivability that stems from the fact that venerable status doesn't protect against getting HPed to death...even with the stat boost, it's probably not worth 30 points.

Well, it's only 20 points for Venerable for us, as opposed to 60 for C:SM. So even though the atrocious loss of survivability has made me a sad panda ever since 6th dropped, we at least have something to hold over those C:SM boys otehr than Deathwing. :lol:

So I'm reading that Venerable will still force a re-roll on the Vehicle Damage Chart. With three (3) HP's it still seems pretty survivable. Stick it in cover, or stick it in CC.