JamesI Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 So, now that the question of Axe or unusual power weapon is officially put to bed, what do people think is the right way to arm SG? All axes? 2 axes per 5 man squad? What do people think works well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthanor Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 It seems to me like the main purpose of sanguinary guards is to take out units in power armor (or worse) while taking minimal casualties, which makes striking at initiative very important. In general, 2+ saves infantry will be armed with something that is ap2 (LCs or PW terminators are fairly rare, afterall) and the sanguinary guards, with no invul and the same cost as a terminator, are better off staying away from those and have the mean to do so. I'd say mostly (if not all) swords for them. A two-handed axe is really just a bad power fist, might as well pay the points and get the potential to ID characters and damage vehicles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joasht Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 What makes it such a pain is that the box only comes with three swords and two axes; you can't quite have it any other way unless you go buy bits... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 Its almost as though they expect us to convert and model these things! What the heck do they think i'm involved in! A miniature wargaming hobby!? :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deschenus Maximus Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 I wanted to try Lances (to combo with Hit and Run from Dante), but I don't think they are available. The FAQ seems to (unclearly) limit the choices to swords or axes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthanor Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 Well, unless you are one of those who argue that a model can only have gear that comes in its own box set, there are plenty of options. A single GK box would give you plenty of swords and decent spear-like weapons (for the hit-and-run crazy charge Dante squad with power lances). If it is more axes that you would like, that's a bit more complicated but I do not see why one would want a whole squad to strike at S5 ap2 i1. For the ap2 squad, mixing power fists and power axes instead of all power axes may make sense and power fists are not that uncommon either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joasht Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 Its almost as though they expect us to convert and model these things! What the heck do they think i'm involved in! A miniature wargaming hobby!? :) Thanks for the support bro :P :) Anyway silliness aside, I mean, it is kinda a problem in a sense, because theres a lot of chopping involved in making those axes into swords, given the arm positioning and whatnot, unless you make super long-hilted swords......which I guess is alright, but might look out of place next to the other models. Frankly, I liked them being just all-Power Swords. They are a good scalpel unit to support my other units, and are particularly good at ruining other MEQs. I guess its in part down to army construction; if you don't have another way to deal with 2+ saves, the axes might not be a terrible idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ushtarador Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 Me too preferred them as being AP3 power-armour killing scalpels. I will run them with my currently modeled 2axe/3swords combination and see how they work out, but it might be very annoying to always lose up to 2 guys when you encounter a PF sarge. The upside is, you can now use them to destroy GK-termies, as those usually don't run an overabundance of hammers :) P.S. All the more reason to paint a Dantewing and run them as 5x swords, 5x axes :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 3/2 split should work ok in most instances... Gives you a fair whack at 3+ saves, and then something to tear chunks out of TDA which you dont really want to be messing with but might need to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted September 7, 2012 Author Share Posted September 7, 2012 I'm trying to decide if I need to remodel mine. I have 10, 4 axes, 5 swords, 1 fist. I am considering making them into 2-3 axes, 1 fist, 6-7 swords. I like having one or 2 axes in each unit, but think more than that is overkill. Which is too bad since I had split my units in 5th based on if they were armed with axe or sword. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 They should be 2+ 5+FnP. They don't need to be striking first They do however need to avoid Thunder Hammer Terminators at all costs though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitadelArmyGuy Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 Axes are fantastic, they let you tackle those Units that have 2+ Sv ICs attached to them. They sit there tanking the AP3 swords, sure, but now you can hit with Str6 Axes. Hidden Axes that cannot be challenged out are really great guys-- my DC love them. That all being said, I'd go for the 3 Swords, 2 Axes split. Just happy I don't have to pay points for a PF anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthanor Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 They should be 2+ 5+FnP. They don't need to be striking first They do however need to avoid Thunder Hammer Terminators at all costs though But what exactly do you gain from axes if you avoid things with power fists or thunder hammers? Since you are assuming FNP, let's assume furious charge too.. 3 attacks with a master-crafted weapon hit about twice, S5 ap3 would give 4/3 dead marine. 5 of them means 20/3 ~ 7 dead marines and if you charged from the proper direction, you most likely killed the power fist sergeant too. It leaves 3 marines to finish off in their turn, then you consolidate, move and charge something else. Even grey hunters (neglecting upgrades) will only kill 1-2 of them at i4, much less for most other MEQs. What's not to like? By opposition, if you have axes, you get 2 hits, 5/3 dead marine per sanguinary guard. Striking at i1 means you are not unlikely to lose 1 guy before he strikes, in which case you end up exactly where the sword squad was in term of casualties inflicted. Lose more and then you kill less than the swords. Every guy that survives swings again before you do next turn. Furthermore, it means you strike simultaneously with any power fists/axes in the squad instead of being likely to kill them before they swing and every hit from a power fist is a flying terminator who's not taking off again. What's to like? Unless you fight GK with 2+ saves and ap3 weapons, fellow sanguinary guards, or LC/PW terminators, the axe is not a winner. I would say all swords, maybe one fist to be a bit more versatile or if melta-pistols are not enough against vehicles. Axes are fantastic, they let you tackle those Units that have 2+ Sv ICs attached to them. They sit there tanking the AP3 swords, sure, but now you can hit with Str6 Axes. Hidden Axes that cannot be challenged out are really great guys-- my DC love them. That all being said, I'd go for the 3 Swords, 2 Axes split. Just happy I don't have to pay points for a PF anymore. That same 2+ save IC who will also have a 2+ save LoS! and at least a 4++ and most likely an ap2 weapon with which you will strike simultaneously. Seems to me like you may not even kill him while losing a fair few golden boys in return. You say they are awesome from experience with DC and I have nothing to dispute that. In fact, I quite like my power axe in a BT crusader squad (instead of the 1 attack power fist). But for SGs, I can't say I see a reason to take an axe. A spear (especially with Dante)? Sure. A sword? of course. A maul or an axe? Not really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHarrower Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 I like 3 swords 2 axes. Helps in making it a more multi purpose unit. I usually have at least a priest in there as well too so I have options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spagunk Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 I am now regretting having two boss axes and a powerfist in my SG now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deschenus Maximus Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 Well, unless you are one of those who argue that a model can only have gear that comes in its own box set, there are plenty of options. A single GK box would give you plenty of swords and decent spear-like weapons (for the hit-and-run crazy charge Dante squad with power lances). Oh it's not that they don't come in the box that's the problem - its the way the FAQ entry is worded. A: Glaive Encarmines follow the rules as described in the Types of Power Weapon section on page 61 of the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook, but also have the Master-crafted and Two-handed special rules. They would therefore have the following profiles. Range S AP Type Glaive Encarmine - User 3 Melee, (Sword) Master-crafted, Two-handed. Range S AP Type Glaive Encarmine - +1 2 Melee, (Axe) Master-crafted, Two-handed, Unwieldy. You see, they spelled it out specifically that they are either swords, or axes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthanor Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 They also state that they "follow the rules as described in the Types of Power Weapon section". But I can see where you are coming from and it is not impossible that they would restrict it to axes and swords (after all, lances and maces are hardly glaives...). I misunderstood your post as saying that you only had 3 swords and 2 axes in the box, thus had to arm your squad like that. Rereading your post and your answer, I think we agree that it can be any combination of swords and axes at the very least, maybe other types depending on your group's reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black_Sky Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 2 axes, 2 swords and a fist. Because the guy holding the sword in both hands looks like crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mezkh Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 Im another vote for 3 swords 2 axes :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mebeeclarence Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 Don't forget that if your running Sang guard,you probably have Dante who now at I6,attacks at I1 with his axe :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mezkh Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 Attacking at I1 is not a bum deal for ICs. It means he can't eliminate some return attacks before sub I6 models attack, but SMs are good at weathering attacks anyway. The gain is he piles in last (protected) and has +1 str and the important AP2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 except he doesn't pile in last... he piles in at I6 and then strikes at I1 I thought? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted September 8, 2012 Author Share Posted September 8, 2012 except he doesn't pile in last... he piles in at I6 and then strikes at I1 I thought? Not according to the Rulebook FAQ. You pile in and fight at the same initiative. Q: Does a model with an Unwieldy weapon Pile In at its normalInitiative step and then fight at Initiative step 1? (p22/23) A: No – it Piles In and fights at Initiative step 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysere Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 except he doesn't pile in last... he piles in at I6 and then strikes at I1 I thought? Models pile in when they would make their swings. So your unwieldy weapons make you pile in at I 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 hmm, alright, that's something I guess! Does seem like our characters took the biggest hits of just about all of em now though, shame really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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