recon0321 Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 i was thinking the other day while reading 'Horus Rising' for the 5th time.... we know that Garro rescued Loken from Istvvan III. but how would Loken react to Garro's new found "faith" while Loken in so stuck on the Imperial Truth? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260570-garro-vs-loken/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rider-75 Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 Listen to garro: legion of one. That'll let you know the reaction. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260570-garro-vs-loken/#findComment-3170391 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Týr Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 Isn't James Swallow the only guy who keeps going on about lectitio divinitatus in his HH stuff? I have always felt it was a bit out of place and quite boring. This part of the 40k lore belongs to after the heresy when the imperial cult is born. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260570-garro-vs-loken/#findComment-3170533 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 James Swallow was not the author who introduced the Lecticio Divinatus. As far as the novels go, it's been there since the beginning with Dan Abnett's Horus Rising. And since Garro is one of the founders of the Grey Knights, the Lecticio is sort of a "No-duh that thing is involved." And since Loken is also one of the founders of the Grey Knights(You can blame James Swallow but GW is the one telling the BL IP department what they want in the Heresy so take it up with GW as well), it's pretty safe to say Loken had some sort of change of heart as far as worshipping the Emperor goes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260570-garro-vs-loken/#findComment-3170541 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rider-75 Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 I don't think so - off the top of my head McNeill mentions it in Outcast Dead; though I admit Jim Swallow seems to mention it in just about every single one of them. I think though the Imperial Cult had to have its roots in the heresy so I don't think it's out I place at all. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260570-garro-vs-loken/#findComment-3170544 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 It is mentioned in Horus Rising, False Gods and Galaxy in Flames because it plays a pivotal role in the development of several of the mortal characters. Dan Abnett, Graham McNeil and Ben Counter wrote those three novels. It also pops up throughout the series whenever a mortal's character development is involved regardless of the author. But because James Swallow got landed with the Grey Knights, aka the first Chapter(not Legion, Chapter) to worship the Emperor, the Lecticio Divinatus does have a role to play because that was how the whole shibang got started. It is not unique to James Swallow and James Swallow is not the author who introduced it to the series. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260570-garro-vs-loken/#findComment-3170556 Share on other sites More sharing options...
A D-B Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 ...but GW is the one telling the BL IP department what they want in the Heresy so take it up with GW as well) Nope. They've not asked for anything - not even one thing - as far as I know. The only GW presences at the meetings are the Lord of IP, who pitches in with ideas of his own, but usually nods or analyses ideas pitched at him, or the editors, who mostly mention continuity or scheduling. But because James Swallow got landed with the Grey Knights... "Got landed with". "Got landed with" one of the most desirable, cool, popular and beloved parts of the IP. No one gets landed with anything. We all choose (and occasionally passive-aggressively sigh) over what we do. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260570-garro-vs-loken/#findComment-3170577 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Týr Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 It felt cool in the first four books. But it also felt like it belonged in these books. The whole HH has changed so much since these early years of the series. It feels a bit stupid with one author clinging to the ideá that it's very important to mention in every work. Especially when all other have stopped making it an important part of the overall story and barely mentions it. I think it would be better for the great story about the imperial cult and the lectitio divinitatus, to forget about it a bit and reintroduce it after the main Heresy, where it will have an actual impact. Yes it is important for some characters development. But in Fear to Thread it is suddenly pulled out of nowhere by the female (forgot her name) and she starts to read it to an astartes. Also in Outcast dead it also felt unnecessary to me. Perhaps it's just me, because I find reading about lectitio divinitatus very boring. The entire story slows down every time some fool of a Took opens "the big book" and starts going down the religious highway. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260570-garro-vs-loken/#findComment-3170584 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 On the IP, okay I apologize, I had picked up the wrong impression of how the IP was involved. On the whole "landing thing", extremely poor choice of words. I bow my head in shame. Edit: It felt cool in the first four books. But it also felt like it belonged in these books. The whole HH has changed so much since these early years of the series. It feels a bit stupid with one author clinging to the ideá that it's very important to mention in every work. Especially when all other have stopped making it an important part of the overall story and barely mentions it. I think it would be better for the great story about the imperial cult and the lectitio divinitatus, to forget about it a bit and reintroduce it after the main Heresy, where it will have an actual impact. Yes it is important for some characters development. But in Fear to Thread it is suddenly pulled out of nowhere by the female (forgot her name) and she starts to read it to an astartes. Also in Outcast dead it also felt unnecessary to me. Perhaps it's just me, because I find reading about lectitio divinitatus very boring. The entire story slows down every time some fool of a Took opens "the big book" and starts going down the religious highway. But Outcast Dead is not a novel by James Swallow, so he is not the only author picking up on it every now and then. And wasn't it also mentioned in Know No Fear? I know it was also mentioned in that one short story about the Word Bearers in the Tales of Heresy anthology, I believe it was Scions of the Storm by Anthoney Reynolds and they had actually found a copy of the Lecticio in an uncompliant human society. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260570-garro-vs-loken/#findComment-3170586 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ragnarok Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 It felt cool in the first four books. But it also felt like it belonged in these books. The whole HH has changed so much since these early years of the series. It feels a bit stupid with one author clinging to the ideá that it's very important to mention in every work. Especially when all other have stopped making it an important part of the overall story and barely mentions it. I think it would be better for the great story about the imperial cult and the lectitio divinitatus, to forget about it a bit and reintroduce it after the main Heresy, where it will have an actual impact. Yes it is important for some characters development. But in Fear to Thread it is suddenly pulled out of nowhere by the female (forgot her name) and she starts to read it to an astartes. Also in Outcast dead it also felt unnecessary to me. Perhaps it's just me, because I find reading about lectitio divinitatus very boring. The entire story slows down every time some fool of a Took opens "the big book" and starts going down the religious highway. I don't think it is overdone. Therese are cataclysmic times and with the heresy bring forth such horrors as was revealed in Fear to Tread and others, and the loosening of control of the Imperial truth, it is understandable that the pebbles of this would be shown to start rolling now with a bigger avalanche after the Heresy concludes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260570-garro-vs-loken/#findComment-3170591 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Týr Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 On the IP, okay I apologize, I had picked up the wrong impression of how the IP was involved. On the whole "landing thing", extremely poor choice of words. I bow my head in shame. Edit: It felt cool in the first four books. But it also felt like it belonged in these books. The whole HH has changed so much since these early years of the series. It feels a bit stupid with one author clinging to the ideá that it's very important to mention in every work. Especially when all other have stopped making it an important part of the overall story and barely mentions it. I think it would be better for the great story about the imperial cult and the lectitio divinitatus, to forget about it a bit and reintroduce it after the main Heresy, where it will have an actual impact. Yes it is important for some characters development. But in Fear to Thread it is suddenly pulled out of nowhere by the female (forgot her name) and she starts to read it to an astartes. Also in Outcast dead it also felt unnecessary to me. Perhaps it's just me, because I find reading about lectitio divinitatus very boring. The entire story slows down every time some fool of a Took opens "the big book" and starts going down the religious highway. But Outcast Dead is not a novel by James Swallow, so he is not the only author picking up on it every now and then. And wasn't it also mentioned in Know No Fear? I know it was also mentioned in that one short story about the Word Bearers in the Tales of Heresy anthology, I believe it was Scions of the Storm by Anthoney Reynolds and they had actually found a copy of the Lecticio in an uncompliant human society. I didn't say James Swallow is the only one to mention it. I just say it feels like he is the only one sticking to the lectitio divinitatus being important for the overall story. Even though others on rare occasions mentions it, it dosen't have the big impact on the overall storyline. It's fine to mention it once in a while, but it would be better if people could agree on what to do. Should they keep it a important part for the course of the Heresy or should they tone it down. It's confusing Swallow keeping it important, while others go in another more discreet direction. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260570-garro-vs-loken/#findComment-3170594 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 Okay, again I misunderstood what someone said, I apologize. On topic: Sometimes that is how the dice fall. Religion is a deciding factor in the 40k universe(Both Heresy-era and Post-Heresy). It is used as a weapon(like in Flesh and Iron by Timothy Zhou) as much as it is used as an ointment to heal wounds(like much in the case of Euphrati Keeler). While some stories can go without making too much of a fuss, it still gets mentioned. And since the Heresy is where we see the "birth" of the two main human religions(Chaos and God-Emperor), it is going to make some sort of appearance. But like you said, some authors take a more discreet route while some sit there and put it out because it is one of those details, while however much annoying, are relevant to the story in one way or another. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260570-garro-vs-loken/#findComment-3170604 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lorne Walkier Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 I think when Loken crossed into the Mournival his transition away from the Imperial truth was set.. maybe even when he saw the "Emperor" die. He killed a daemon possessed Jubal, he knows first hand the "Truth" was bs. His "Loyalty" turns out to be all he has left when Garro find him. Garro uses it against him to illuminate him to the "Truth". Game over. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260570-garro-vs-loken/#findComment-3171640 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calgar 2.0 Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Am I the only member that laughs a little when A D-B calls out members for misinterpreting fluff? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260570-garro-vs-loken/#findComment-3174322 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arachnid99 Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Am I the only member that laughs a little when A D-B calls out members for misinterpreting fluff? Yes, most of us laugh a lot. :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260570-garro-vs-loken/#findComment-3174367 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Am I the only member that laughs a little when A D-B calls out members for misinterpreting fluff? most of the time yes. but then i remember he's a fan as much as any of us, with his own views of the background. WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260570-garro-vs-loken/#findComment-3174380 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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