Prince of Crows

[Augustus]

Just finished reading it.

 

Quick summary

 

 

The book takes place right after the Dark Angels have conceivably won the Crusade. The Dark Angels used their Deus ex Machina thing to catch 1/4 of the Night Lords fleet unawares. Curze was defeated and sent into a coma by the Lion.

 

Sevetar now tries to decide what to do about the Crusade. He decides to give up on it and head for Terra with the majority of the remaining fleet. The rest will loot and pillage to their captains content.

 

Sevetar uses his psychic? powers to awaken Curze from his coma. Which apparently works.

 

The Dark Angels arrive again and Curze wakes up and teleports to the Invincible Reason with 700 Night Lords. (They might all have been Terminators)

 

While on the ship you never actually read about a death of a Night Lord. Although they wade through the Dark Angels pretty good.

 

Sevetar is taken down and then wakes up in cell. He spits acid to try to escape and so they put him another cell with 7 of his buddies.

 

Curze ran from the Lion and is lurking on the ship.

 

 

 

It is NOT a Dark Angels book. No Dark Angels characters are named and the Lion only has a handful of words of dialogue.

 

It was really excellent until the second battle with the Dark Angels fleet. IMO Sevetar is ridiculously overpowered. If Dembski-Bowden is going to insinuate that Rogal Dorn will die to 100 Chaos Marines I can only think that, with this novella to judge by, Sevetar could have defeated them all. The dude just wades through Dark Angels like it is nothing. (He is implied to be a latent psyker, if that is the case I imagine it makes sense..a bit) The only duel the guy lost was to Sigismund which he only lost because he "won" by headbutting Sigismund and thereby disqualified himself.

 

I now look back and think, "Wow the night lords are so badass that the only way the Dark Angels could ever defeat them is to use some Deus Ex Machina device. And even with that, loads of Night-Lords get away.

 

The Dark Angels stupid enough to put all their prisoners in one cell. :)

At least the Custodes separated their prisoners..lol

 

The Lion takes down Curze after 60 seconds? How?> :o

 

I think they main point of the story is to describe the Night Lords legion and their descent into further craziness which is why Dembski-Bowden left the Dark Angels in a background role and only used them as a plot device.

 

All around a good read..only a little head scratching at the aforementioned things. 3/5

[Captain Semper]

I really need to read this now... Aaaaargh - so many books, so little time!!!

[WatchCaptainAzrael]

Welp, I called it when he made the Dark Angels embarrass themselves in Savage Weapons, but you were all "oh, but Corswain survived!".

 

Also, this confirms my very worst expectation. I had expected that the book would be about the Night Lords kicking DA ass in spite of having lost hard, but this.. oh boy.

[Captain Semper]

I disliked how the Lion lost to Curze in Savage Weapons - we had some discussion with ADB on that, both here and in Warseer - (I recall I called him biased - something that upon reflection was unfair). Suffice to say we still have different views on the matter... ;)

 

But after Augusts' itriguing sum-up I would really like to read the Crow for myself ... You see with books it's the delivery of the story that can save the day - not only the facts as they are described. And it seems that the Lion really kick some Curze behind... :mellow: Now whether the DAs need an extra edge to defeat the NL's that does not bother me. As long as the DAs are not on the verge of anihillation and need a Deus Ex Machina to save their skins. Otherwise I'm happy with the stalemate.

 

Will download it lated tonight...

[FerociousBeast]

Despite the fact that I'm on record as being pretty critical of ADB's stories... the only thing I read in the OP that seems off is Sevatar wading through Dark Angels like they're nothing. But then that's something that just about all the Black Library writers do, making their chosen heroes or antiheroes wade through their enemies, chopping them down like so much chaff. It's another part of today's video-game-ification of the 40k setting...but it is what it is, and ADB is hardly the only one guilty of it.

[WatchCaptainAzrael]

Despite the fact that I'm on record as being pretty critical of ADB's stories... the only thing I read in the OP that seems off is Sevatar wading through Dark Angels like they're nothing. But then that's something that just about all the Black Library writers do, making their chosen heroes or antiheroes wade through their enemies, chopping them down like so much chaff. It's another part of today's video-game-ification of the 40k setting...but it is what it is, and ADB is hardly the only one guilty of it.

Well yeah, it's alright if it's someone else, but not -our- boys in dark green and robes, damn it! :mellow:

[Augustus]

That's a fair point FB and Dembski-Bowden did not have Sevetar kill any named Dark Angels. Having read the Talos stories, the character there is able to cut down his enemies but also...seems to struggle. With Sevetar he flicks his chain-glaive here and there disemboweling and killing Space Marines like its childs play.

 

That said, Sevetar is the first captain of a Space Marine Legion and should be of tantamount skill and given that Dembski-Bowden made him a psyker..Ok. Still it came across as a little outlandish.

[Phoebus]

Allow me to share my two cents' worth.

 

My only real complaint for this story was that the Dark Angels would be so irresponsible in their security to begin with.

Really? The First Captain of the Night Lords stuck in a normal cell? Look, if the idea is to allow Sevatar to escape later on... then just have him escape and be in a different place. Otherwise, any measure short of him being put in a stasis field is an insult to his abilities.

 

 

Everything else, though? With the exception of a couple minor inconsistencies, great stuff! Just a beautifully-written story with terrific characterizations. It's easily one of the best stories I've read in a long time. Not just by Black Library... by anyone.

 

Yes, Sevatar is lethal. He has already been qualified as being one of the best warriors in all the Legiones Astartes.

Supposedly, only Sigismund was his better at fair single combat.

He kills several Dark Angels, but it's nothing gratuitous. And besides,

he has psychic powers he suppresses - telepathy and prognostication that advertise his opponent's moves.

 

 

No, the Night Lords don't just

teleport on the Invincible Reason and kill Dark Angels scot-free.

It's qualified that

by the time Sevatar makes his way to the Atramentar fighting alongside Curze, they are fighting in ever-shrinking circles against overwhelming odds. And, anyways, they lose.

The only sad thing is that this whole victory comes via a giant deus ex machina. I'm just not a fan of this plot device. It's contrived, it's artificial, and it cheapens the notion of the Lion being this brilliant strategist.

 

I think it's fair to say that the Lion's combat prowess has been vindicated. He'd never had to fight against a Primarch to the death prior to facing Curze, and certainly didn't have to fight with a Primarch that feral. At the beginning of this story, though,

he has completely dismantled and annihilated Curze. His only error is in being a typical movie villain and talking instead of killing. BUT, that kind of complaint is cheap. It's meant to be a dramatic scene.

Given this, I think it's fair to assume that the Lion

underestimated his enemy in "Savage Weapons", and that when he is on his best footing he is absolutely deadly - even to a another Primarch.

I get the feeling that, when he's sitting on his throne for days on end, he's not just sulking. I think he's absolutely focused on how exactly he's going to dismantle the individual who embarrassed him thusly. It's like all he's doing is playing an interactive combat simulator on his mind, determining how to best and most ruthlessly tear Curze apart.

And that's what he does when they meet.

 

 

Sadly, though,

no real description is given of Curze and the Lion fighting aboard the Invincible Reason. I understand why, though. The message has been delivered: don't underestimate or dismiss any Primarch, whether they be Curze, the Lion, or Lorgar.

 

 

I really do wish that last battle had seen

Sevatar fighting Corswain. Whether it was Corswain somehow beating Sevatar - unlikely, but possible given the debilitated state the Prince of Crows was in - or Sevatar beating Corswain, I think that was a fight that needed to happen.

This, especially given that its Aaron Dembski-Bowden that came up with both Sevatar and Corswain... and odds are he won't be writing about Dark Angels again anytime soon. :)

[Augustus]

Superman has a lot of abilities that make him powerful too. It does not NOT make him still ridiculously overpowered.

 

 

Dembski-Bowden told and story and a good one.

[Sviar]

May have to read this only because the Dark Angels are in it. Or are the DA only mentioned in one chapterof the book?

On a side note. Does this novel cover the the event when the NL messed up the Corax Geneseed, or are there no Raven Guards in the book?

[Phoebus]

The Raven Guard event you're referring to is shown in the novel "Deliverance".

 

As for the Dark Angels, the Lion features prominently in the Prologue. The Legion as a whole is depicted as a rather faceless enemy during the closing chapter(s), when the Dark Angels and Night Lords fight the last battle (?) of the Thramas Crusade.

[FerociousBeast]

May have to read this only because the Dark Angels are in it. Or are the DA only mentioned in one chapterof the book?

On a side note. Does this novel cover the the event when the NL messed up the Corax Geneseed, or are there no Raven Guards in the book?

That's the Alpha Legion, by the way. Night Lords aren't involved.

[A D-B]

Many, many spoilers.

 

It was really excellent until the second battle with the Dark Angels fleet. IMO Sevetar is ridiculously overpowered. The dude just wades through Dark Angels like it is nothing.

 

He wades through any Space Marines like he's a First Captain and one of the finest fighters in the Imperium. Like all First Captains.

 

However, even he notes there's something unusual about the way he fights, something he's never really understood, which allows him to keep pace with the really perfect warriors, like Sigismund. The implication is that there's a story there, not "LOL I WIN".

 

I now look back and think, "Wow the night lords are so badass that the only way the Dark Angels could ever defeat them is to use some Deus Ex Machina device. And even with that, loads of Night-Lords get away.

 

I'm not sure which novella you read, man. But the one I wrote has the Dark Angels primarch practically murdering the Night Lords primarch after mere seconds of combat; the Night Lords fleet scattered to the winds after the Dark Angels quite literally murder a third of the Legion in an ambush; the Night Lords Legion having its back broken so badly they break apart for the rest of the Heresy; and the main Night Lords fallback point - where they try to reform a fragment of the Legion - attacked again, and the Night Lords forced to flee for a second time.

 

Then, of course, the two primarchs meet again, and Curze runs away this time rather than be killed, and almost the entire Night Lords First Company is massacred to a man, and the First Captain is captured.

 

So... I mean, in all honesty, as conflicts between two Legions go, it's very specifically the most one-sided victory in the Heresy's history. If that doesn't satisfy you, expect to be very disappointed in the much more balanced fights for the rest of the civil war. I sincerely doubt any other author will show their main characters and protagonist's Legion losing this badly in any other book.

 

EDIT: Also, as for "And even with that, loads of Night-Lords get away" -- What did you expect, exactly? Did you want me to kill the Legion? We already knew from the lore that the Night Lords aren't wiped out in the Thramas Crusade. We also knew the Dark Angels weren't wiped out. In fact, we knew nothing except the two Legions fought there for years and both survived. And that was it. So instead, I chose a side to win it, and I chose the Dark Angels. I chose the Night Lords to suffer horrendous losses, while the Angels suffered almost none. (I'd also told Gav when he was going into The Lion that the Dark Angels were going to win the Thramas Crusade, but had no influence on the events there.)

[A D-B]

Allow me to share my two cents' worth.

 

My only real complaint for this story was that the Dark Angels would be so irresponsible in their security to begin with.

Really? The First Captain of the Night Lords stuck in a normal cell? Look, if the idea is to allow Sevatar to escape later on... then just have him escape and be in a different place. Otherwise, any measure short of him being put in a stasis field is an insult to his abilities.

 

 

Everything else, though? With the exception of a couple minor inconsistencies, great stuff! Just a beautifully-written story with terrific characterizations. It's easily one of the best stories I've read in a long time. Not just by Black Library... by anyone.

 

Yes, Sevatar is lethal. He has already been qualified as being one of the best warriors in all the Legiones Astartes.

Supposedly, only Sigismund was his better at fair single combat.

He kills several Dark Angels, but it's nothing gratuitous. And besides,

he has psychic powers he suppresses - telepathy and prognostication that advertise his opponent's moves.

 

 

No, the Night Lords don't just

teleport on the Invincible Reason and kill Dark Angels scot-free.

It's qualified that

by the time Sevatar makes his way to the Atramentar fighting alongside Curze, they are fighting in ever-shrinking circles against overwhelming odds. And, anyways, they lose.

The only sad thing is that this whole victory comes via a giant deus ex machina. I'm just not a fan of this plot device. It's contrived, it's artificial, and it cheapens the notion of the Lion being this brilliant strategist.

 

I think it's fair to say that the Lion's combat prowess has been vindicated. He'd never had to fight against a Primarch to the death prior to facing Curze, and certainly didn't have to fight with a Primarch that feral. At the beginning of this story, though,

he has completely dismantled and annihilated Curze. His only error is in being a typical movie villain and talking instead of killing. BUT, that kind of complaint is cheap. It's meant to be a dramatic scene.

Given this, I think it's fair to assume that the Lion

underestimated his enemy in "Savage Weapons", and that when he is on his best footing he is absolutely deadly - even to a another Primarch.

I get the feeling that, when he's sitting on his throne for days on end, he's not just sulking. I think he's absolutely focused on how exactly he's going to dismantle the individual who embarrassed him thusly. It's like all he's doing is playing an interactive combat simulator on his mind, determining how to best and most ruthlessly tear Curze apart.

And that's what he does when they meet.

 

 

Sadly, though,

no real description is given of Curze and the Lion fighting aboard the Invincible Reason. I understand why, though. The message has been delivered: don't underestimate or dismiss any Primarch, whether they be Curze, the Lion, or Lorgar.

 

 

I really do wish that last battle had seen

Sevatar fighting Corswain. Whether it was Corswain somehow beating Sevatar - unlikely, but possible given the debilitated state the Prince of Crows was in - or Sevatar beating Corswain, I think that was a fight that needed to happen.

This, especially given that its Aaron Dembski-Bowden that came up with both Sevatar and Corswain... and odds are he won't be writing about Dark Angels again anytime soon. :sweat:

 

That looks way more familiar. And, thankfully, what the reviews say.

 

I was scared for a minute, there. And now, I wish to marry you, Pheebs.

[Interrogator Stobz]

You are a lucky man Pheebs old chap, when's the engagement party :devil:

[Phoebus]

You realize that you're making me blush at work, right? And that we try to put off a pretty macho vibe at my squadron? :devil:

[Interrogator Stobz]

You don't get more "macho" than marrying another man.

 

OT: That story will be released in that Shadows of Treachery book right? I'm waiting for the paper version (to help fill the shelves) It sounds really neat and I can't wait.

 

Edit: You just changed yourself into Belial, AWESOME!

[Phoebus]

It's an amazing illustration. :)

[Brother Ambroz]

Wait you guys are talking about "reading" it. Is there someplace you can buy it and read it or do you actually mean the MP3?

[Phoebus]

It's not an MP3. You can either buy it now in eBook format or you can get a solid book copy in a few days. :)

[Arachnid99]

I've literally just finished reading it and first things first. Bugger :D the Dark Angels, one of my least favourite Legions beating the Night Lords, thanks to A D-B's Talos series my favourite Chaos Legion, like a red-headed step-child. Any Angels fans who worry about their Legion being beaten up clearly read a different book, the main problem is in the other direction. The Lion is shown acting like a Primarch; commanding his Legion, beating seven shades of poo out of everyone in sight and generally being a demi-god. Curze is shown as a frothing psychotic

who deliberately trashes his own Legions battle plans! Towards the end of the book the scene where he screws up the carefully crafted battle plan and launches a suicidal attack on the Invincible Reason is just made of stupid, though it doesn't come across too badly as Curze has been carefully depicted as being nuts from the start of the novel.

However the fleshing out of Night Haunters backstory is fantastic, you really see where he's coming from and why he's such a damaged individual and it's not just Nostramo.

 

Sevatar is clearly shown as a combat beast though we only have authorial fiat he's one of the finest fighters in the Legions; Abbaddon, Raldoran and Lucius are all more "knife through hot butter" than Sevatar. Still he does beat up some tactical marines but what do you expect? He's a First Captain, tactical marines are his midday snack, and based on that novel I mean that literally. He is the most flat out creepy character I've read outside of crime fiction, I don't know how A D-B did it but he reads like a complete and total psychopath; if Khârn is a few fries short of a Happy Meal then with Sevatar they forgot to put the burger in. I'm actually slightly concerned, BL is meant to be relatively family friendly because of the age range of 40k players and I would not want a 13 year old to read the Sevatar sections, this is a depiction of an incredibly damaged mind who is pretty clearly clinically psychopathic. In fact I'm really surprised no one at BL has brought it up.

 

Anyway great novella, absolute must read for any Heresy fan, especially any Dark Angels fan as you get to see the boys in black trash the Night Lords. Just don't give it to your little brother unless you want him to wet the bed.

[Augustus]

I read you novella.

 

I also said Sevetar was overpowered even though you explained why he is such due to his psychic powers and being 1st captain. It still got old after a while. Just like superman got old after a while. He survives the the surprise attack despite allowing the others to flee while he buys time(I believe he was in the flagship Nightfall? Shame to let that one get away. Kills the dissenters in the legion. Wakes his Primarch up. Insanely(albeit awesome) boards the Dark Angels Flagship. Lays a hurting on a lot of Dark Angels (1st captain, got that) gets wounded. Wakes up later in a cell after a time finds himself unguarded..that same very awesome 1st captain. Then is thrown together with the rest of the survivors.

 

As I said, most of the novella was very good. But I grew tired of that and it is only opinion. I think the problem stems from the story being only about Sevetar and little dialogue is given when he is not a part of it. Compounded that a lot of the parts with him in it depict him doing something pretty awesome..I grew....restless)

 

The Dark Angels did destroy 1/3 of the fleet. My complaint there was due to the Deus ex Machina plot device and not skill (not your doing there) Later that device allows them to all escape. (This is probably unfair criticism as you did not create that, and for that I apologize.) The Lion defeating Curze in 60 seconds. That bit was hard to believe. Unless Curze's madness is to blame. Then it doesn't matter either way.

 

I appreciate you addressing your criticism. And I apologize for not reading your novella the way you intended. Thanks again and enjoyed it for the most part.

[The Shadow Guard]

Allow me to share my two cents' worth.

 

My only real complaint for this story was that the Dark Angels would be so irresponsible in their security to begin with.

Really? The First Captain of the Night Lords stuck in a normal cell? Look, if the idea is to allow Sevatar to escape later on... then just have him escape and be in a different place. Otherwise, any measure short of him being put in a stasis field is an insult to his abilities.

 

 

Everything else, though? With the exception of a couple minor inconsistencies, great stuff! Just a beautifully-written story with terrific characterizations. It's easily one of the best stories I've read in a long time. Not just by Black Library... by anyone.

 

Yes, Sevatar is lethal. He has already been qualified as being one of the best warriors in all the Legiones Astartes.

Supposedly, only Sigismund was his better at fair single combat.

He kills several Dark Angels, but it's nothing gratuitous. And besides,

he has psychic powers he suppresses - telepathy and prognostication that advertise his opponent's moves.

 

 

No, the Night Lords don't just

teleport on the Invincible Reason and kill Dark Angels scot-free.

It's qualified that

by the time Sevatar makes his way to the Atramentar fighting alongside Curze, they are fighting in ever-shrinking circles against overwhelming odds. And, anyways, they lose.

The only sad thing is that this whole victory comes via a giant deus ex machina. I'm just not a fan of this plot device. It's contrived, it's artificial, and it cheapens the notion of the Lion being this brilliant strategist.

 

I think it's fair to say that the Lion's combat prowess has been vindicated. He'd never had to fight against a Primarch to the death prior to facing Curze, and certainly didn't have to fight with a Primarch that feral. At the beginning of this story, though,

he has completely dismantled and annihilated Curze. His only error is in being a typical movie villain and talking instead of killing. BUT, that kind of complaint is cheap. It's meant to be a dramatic scene.

Given this, I think it's fair to assume that the Lion

underestimated his enemy in "Savage Weapons", and that when he is on his best footing he is absolutely deadly - even to a another Primarch.

I get the feeling that, when he's sitting on his throne for days on end, he's not just sulking. I think he's absolutely focused on how exactly he's going to dismantle the individual who embarrassed him thusly. It's like all he's doing is playing an interactive combat simulator on his mind, determining how to best and most ruthlessly tear Curze apart.

And that's what he does when they meet.

 

 

Sadly, though,

no real description is given of Curze and the Lion fighting aboard the Invincible Reason. I understand why, though. The message has been delivered: don't underestimate or dismiss any Primarch, whether they be Curze, the Lion, or Lorgar.

 

 

I really do wish that last battle had seen

Sevatar fighting Corswain. Whether it was Corswain somehow beating Sevatar - unlikely, but possible given the debilitated state the Prince of Crows was in - or Sevatar beating Corswain, I think that was a fight that needed to happen.

This, especially given that its Aaron Dembski-Bowden that came up with both Sevatar and Corswain... and odds are he won't be writing about Dark Angels again anytime soon. :(

 

That looks way more familiar. And, thankfully, what the reviews say.

 

I was scared for a minute, there. And now, I wish to marry you, Pheebs.

 

Sounds great Phebes! :D The books on the way so can't wait to read the whole story. By the way A-D-B, do you paint 40K marines? :P

 

It's not an MP3. You can either buy it now in eBook format or you can get a solid book copy in a few days. :)

 

So glad all those MP3 audio dramas are being released in book form. Nothing like seeing actual books standing on a shelf and smelling the pages as you read them... ebooks? Pah!! :P

 

 

if Khârn is a few fries short of a Happy Meal then with Sevatar they forgot to put the burger in.

 

Honestly, that quote actually cracked me up!! :D

 

SG

[Phoebus]

Having enjoyed Sevatar's portrayal so much... I can't wait to read about Khârn.

 

And having said that, I'm now wishing more than ever we could read some more about Corswain. Oh, well... as the French say, "le-sigh."

 

Incidentally, this story had me re-reading "Savage Weapons". I read this...

 

Sevatar nodded. ‘This is a gang tradition from ours. The hands of traitors and fools were tattooed red by their families to show them as deathmarked. A sign that no gang or family would tolerate grave failure, but that the condemned still had labours to perform before they were allowed to die.’

‘So which are you, a traitor or a fool?’

The Night Lord’s voice revealed his own smile, even if his soulless helm did not. ‘Both.’

 

... and had a thought: Sevatar earned his red hands

on Isstvan V.

As silly as it sounds - given his sociopathic tendencies - I'm almost willing to bet a paycheck that his crime was doing something... almost noble? Like letting someone go that he shouldn't have?

[A D-B]

I read you novella.

 

I also said Sevetar was overpowered even though you explained why he is such due to his psychic powers and being 1st captain. It still got old after a while. Just like superman got old after a while. He survives the the surprise attack despite allowing the others to flee while he buys time(I believe he was in the flagship Nightfall? Shame to let that one get away. Kills the dissenters in the legion. Wakes his Primarch up. Insanely(albeit awesome) boards the Dark Angels Flagship. Lays a hurting on a lot of Dark Angels (1st captain, got that) gets wounded. Wakes up later in a cell after a time finds himself unguarded..that same very awesome 1st captain. Then is thrown together with the rest of the survivors.

 

As I said, most of the novella was very good. But I grew tired of that and it is only opinion. I think the problem stems from the story being only about Sevetar and little dialogue is given when he is not a part of it. Compounded that a lot of the parts with him in it depict him doing something pretty awesome..I grew....restless)

 

I have some terrible news if you hate First Captains doing amazing things. The Dark Angels First Captain (who, let's recall, isn't even as strong as a Space Marine) will duel the Lion, almost win!, take over a portion of the Legion that the Dark Angels (and their Successors, forever!) will have in an eternal guilty crusade to keep undercover and destroy, as well as live forever in captivity mumbling prophecies. The Sons of Horus First Captain will become Warmaster of Chaos, earn the favour of every Chaos God, lead every single Legion, and become the Antichrist figure to all of Mankind. The Imperial Fists First Captain will fight through the Siege of Terra hailed as the Emperors Champion, killing countless Chaos Champions, and form the only Chapter to still fight the Great Crusade, and the Chapter closest to Legion size.

 

The equivalent to First Captain in the Thousand Sons is one of the most powerful sorcerers in existence. The equivalent in the World Eaters will be resurrected countless times by a god and allowed to live forever in blood-soaked glory. The equivalent in the Emperor's Children is the finest swordsman in all the Legions, and immortal to boot.

 

The Night Lords First Captain kills some Tactical Marines without breaking a sweat, kills some of his own men who weren't expecting to be betrayed, and sure survives a couple of ambushes. I struggle to see anything he does as particularly unrealistic, either.

 

You probably see my point, man. I do value criticism, all writers do. It's not about not accepting criticism. It's about the criticism lacking context and perspective, rendering it a little less useful.