Rumoured Dark Apostle

[Hellrender]

So, witht he possibility of getting a dark apostle in the codex, i started to wonder how he would be fitting in fluffwise. For a word bearers army it is rather easy, but what for Night Lords, or Thousand Sons, how would they run him, since (as far i know) those legion do not have a Dark Apostle with them.

 

What would you count as your Dark Apostle?

Would you run him as a real WB Dark Apostle?

[ThisisJimmy]

People could do a few things. Could be run as an allied WB DA, could be one of the original Chaplains from that Legion who accepted the Heresy and turned to Chaos, or people could just make use of the old fashioned count-as.

[A D-B]

I'm really psyched about this unit. It's something that's long overdue, I reckon. I think they're less "All Heresy-Era Chaplains" (Chaos seems to be moving away from "Just like Space Marines, but spiky") and more likely to be Chaos Marine Warrior-Priests.

 

A Dark Apostle of the Iron Warriors might be a great and charismatic (or vile and abusive) leader of the cult-slaves that serve as menials in their forge-fortresses, leading them into battle as bolter fodder. A Dark Apostle of the Black Legion might be a Marine who became more and more pious over the millennia, looking into the lore of the gods to become a warrior-priest, or to serve his warband as a High Priest over their slaves and ragged thralls. A Dark Apostle of the Word Bearers would like be a Chaplain in their traditional terms, either from the Heresy or simply trained and ascended to the rank in the eternity since.

[Captain Semper]

Dark Apostle of the Iron Warriors might be a great and charismatic (or vile and abusive) leader of the cult-slaves that serve as menials in their forge-fortresses, leading them into battle as bolter fodder. A Dark Apostle of the Black Legion might be a Marine who became more and more pious over the millennia, looking into the lore of the gods to become a warrior-priest, or to serve his warband as a High Priest over their slaves and ragged thralls. A Dark Apostle of the Word Bearers would like be a Chaplain in their traditional terms, either from the Heresy or simply trained and ascended to the rank in the eternity since.

 

Diverse as you make it sound, there must be a distinguishing attribute available only to Dark Apostles - otherwise all the above archetypes could be easily referring to a generic "Chaos Lord" and be left to the individual gamer to decide his background (leader of cultists, religious freak, a Chaplain of old, etc). This attribute should be unique enough to make the Dark Apostle a credible choice over a Chaos Lord AND generic enough to be applicable to all (or most) Legions/Warbands.

 

So what could this be? special rule? piece of wargear? both? Let's see... Some super nice minis will also help! :(

[A D-B]

Dark Apostle of the Iron Warriors might be a great and charismatic (or vile and abusive) leader of the cult-slaves that serve as menials in their forge-fortresses, leading them into battle as bolter fodder. A Dark Apostle of the Black Legion might be a Marine who became more and more pious over the millennia, looking into the lore of the gods to become a warrior-priest, or to serve his warband as a High Priest over their slaves and ragged thralls. A Dark Apostle of the Word Bearers would like be a Chaplain in their traditional terms, either from the Heresy or simply trained and ascended to the rank in the eternity since.

 

Diverse as you make it sound, there must be a distinguishing attribute available only to Dark Apostles - otherwise all the above archetypes could be easily referring to a generic "Chaos Lord" and be left to the individual gamer to decide his background (leader of cultists, religious freak, a Chaplain of old, etc). This attribute should be unique enough to make the Dark Apostle a credible choice over a Chaos Lord AND generic enough to be applicable to all (or most) Legions/Warbands.

 

So what could this be? special rule? piece of wargear? both? Let's see... Some super nice minis will also help! :(

 

Well, natch. But you can do that with any army; making "Marine Commander" to mean Chaplain or Captain, f'rex. I'd be pole-axed if there was no wargear and/or special rule to differentiate them - that'd be crazy.

[Biaz]

Dark Apostle of the Iron Warriors might be a great and charismatic (or vile and abusive) leader of the cult-slaves that serve as menials in their forge-fortresses, leading them into battle as bolter fodder. A Dark Apostle of the Black Legion might be a Marine who became more and more pious over the millennia, looking into the lore of the gods to become a warrior-priest, or to serve his warband as a High Priest over their slaves and ragged thralls. A Dark Apostle of the Word Bearers would like be a Chaplain in their traditional terms, either from the Heresy or simply trained and ascended to the rank in the eternity since.

 

Diverse as you make it sound, there must be a distinguishing attribute available only to Dark Apostles - otherwise all the above archetypes could be easily referring to a generic "Chaos Lord" and be left to the individual gamer to decide his background (leader of cultists, religious freak, a Chaplain of old, etc). This attribute should be unique enough to make the Dark Apostle a credible choice over a Chaos Lord AND generic enough to be applicable to all (or most) Legions/Warbands.

 

So what could this be? special rule? piece of wargear? both? Let's see... Some super nice minis will also help! :(

 

Well, natch. But you can do that with any army; making "Marine Commander" to mean Chaplain or Captain, f'rex. I'd be pole-axed if there was no wargear and/or special rule to differentiate them - that'd be crazy.

 

 

The latest rumours are pointing at these guys being an Elite choice, 3 per slot, like the Blood Angel priests, adding a variety of benefits too, possibly depending on the mark. I have doubts about all this, as some things come off quite far fetched, but if it's true they won't be competing with Lords in any way. If it's false and they are a HQ choice, I reckon they'll have a limited access to wargear, but provide more passive buffs. So it depends if you want a krumpin' Lord or a guy that "shares the love".

 

If they're an Elite choice, I don't really know where to start with their inclusion in my Warband. The options are endless! Not to mention I'd have to wait and see how they hold up compared to other Elities. If they're HQ's, I've already got a whole backstory prepared regarding a possessed Apostle and his retinue of also-possessed followers, and he would replace a "regular" Lord in my force. Whether this individual is from the Black Legion or the warband I plan to ally with them made from all the shiny new models GW's going to release is undecided.

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

I believe it was mentioned on the night lords warband thread, but I really like the idea that Chaplains/their traitor equilivent our embodiments of the legions, so a Emperor's Children Dark Apostle will try all excess, being the one who tries things and then shares it with his brothers, a Thousand sons one may spend all his time meitaing on the nature of the universe and the warp, a world Eaters on would be a formidable warrior who could not be touched by psykers, who coordinate the berserkers to where the most skulls may be reaped/best foes are ect.

[Kizzdougs]

I've been slowly moving away from the Word Bearers towards the Iron Warriors but all this talk of Dark Apostles is making me think twice. I wouldn't be surprised if I drop the IWs in favour of the WBs (at least for a while. I'm so fickle with my chaos loyalties you never know). Bring it on! :devil:

[totgeboren]

By the rumours I have read, they are not really the 'Dark Apostles' we know and love, but 1W Chaos Preachers with an unfortunate name. However, as they seem to be elites, and buff any squad they lead I'm really happy. I'll just call them 'Acolytes' and that's that.

 

It also seems like they can be marked, so we will most likely see pestilent preachers, charismatic demagogues, blood priests and coven leaders, in addition to the orators of the WB, the slave-masters of the IW and the cell-coordinators of the AL.

 

I think there will be room for 'Dark Apostles' in every warband now, as they represent many sorts of lesser leaders, no matter the faith. But what we should call the fallen chaplains of the WB legion I don't know. Maybe 'Grand Dark Apostles'? If the rumours are true, it's kinda silly of GW to take an established name for a specific unit and give that name to a new unit. But well see when the codex comes, which seems to be soon! ;)

[A D-B]

Maybe 'Grand Dark Apostles'?

 

That implies the Word Bearer ones are better, though. Or superior in rank.

 

As an example of why that's not going to be true, there's nothing to say a Black Legion Apostle (or from any Legion) wouldn't be significantly more powerful, respected and grand than a Word Bearer who was an ex-Chaplain. You can look at the Pope, for example, back in the age when Christianity really held sway over Europe and things like Crusades were a reality of military life. The pagan leaders of X-thousand years ago sure might think he's an interloper and a newcomer, but he's got a lot more cash, power, faithful followers, and swords loyal to his cause.

 

I agree on it being an unfortunate name (it'll create confusion), but we should probably steer away from assuming the unit with the name originally is automatically better, or the elite version, just because they've been mentioned in older fluff. Sternguard and Vanguard aren't any worse than First Company Veterans just because they weren't mentioned earlier; they're just a deeper examination of the same concept. Same thing here.

 

My problem is that I struggle to take something seriously if it has "Dark" in its name. It's why the Word Bearers I write about tend to use other terms.

[totgeboren]

Yeah, 'Dark' sounds kind of silly, and I would not mind a more dignified title, but that's what has been written. But the name is not really what I was on about, it was that the chaplains of the WB have been portrayed as mighty leaders of Hosts and warbands, and not the sort of unit you would find leading cultist rabble.

Or, to be more specific, not the sort of character that should be a '3 for a slot' elites. It's not that the WB apostles are better because they are WB, it's that they have always been portrayed as HQs, the leaders, and should have rules and a profile fit for that role, which these new apostles do not seem to have.

 

I definitely don't mind getting rules for lesser preachers, but I hope there is some sort of upgrade for our Lords that allow them to combine the role of HQ with some demagoguery. I don't expect it, but it would be nice if the religious leader of my host was at least as good at inspiring hatred in his followers as the lesser preachers that lead the cultists.

[A D-B]

Yeah, 'Dark' sounds kind of silly, and I would not mind a more dignified title, but that's what was been written. But the name is not really what I was on about, it was that the chaplains of the WB have been portrayed as mighty leaders of Hosts and warbands, and not the sort of unit you would find leading cultist rabble.

Or, to be more specific, not the sort of character that should be a '3 for a slot' elites. It's not that the WB apostles are better because they are WB, it's that they have always been portrayed as HQs, the leaders, and should have rules and a profile fit for that role, which these new apostles do not seem to have.

 

I definitely don't mind getting rules for lesser preachers, but I hope there is some sort of upgrade for our Lords that allow them to combine the role of HQ with some demagoguery. I don't expect it, but it would be nice if the religious leader of my host was at least as good at inspiring hatred in his followers as the lesser preachers that lead the cultists.

 

/nod

 

For really reals.

 

I love the idea of upgrading Lords like that, to have a council of lesser warrior-priests. That'd rock on toast.

[Arachnid99]

I'll be the first to admit I don't know much about Chaos but for me the big thing is the lack of structure you have in the Imperium. Scout>Battle-Brother>Sergeant>Vet. Sergeant>Captain>First Captain>Chapter Master works great for the Ultramarines but isn't at all Chaosy. I think you guys would be much better with just a single HQ choice called Champion coming in cheap but the biggest and longest list of upgrades available in any Codex. So you could have you as a 90 point 5-5-4-4 ld 9 minor Champion or you could blow 500 points on creating a Deamon Prince, Demagogue, Combat Monster who can take on Draigo and win. With a sufficiently long list of upgrades you could create a Night Lords Talonmaster, a Word Bearers Dark Apostle or a Tzeentch Sorcerer Daemon Prince. Something big enough and broad enough that you could cover almost every variant without ever having to get trapped.

[Brother Ambroz]

I'll be the first to admit I don't know much about Chaos but for me the big thing is the lack of structure you have in the Imperium. Scout>Battle-Brother>Sergeant>Vet. Sergeant>Captain>First Captain>Chapter Master works great for the Ultramarines but isn't at all Chaosy. I think you guys would be much better with just a single HQ choice called Champion coming in cheap but the biggest and longest list of upgrades available in any Codex. So you could have you as a 90 point 5-5-4-4 ld 9 minor Champion or you could blow 500 points on creating a Deamon Prince, Demagogue, Combat Monster who can take on Draigo and win. With a sufficiently long list of upgrades you could create a Night Lords Talonmaster, a Word Bearers Dark Apostle or a Tzeentch Sorcerer Daemon Prince. Something big enough and broad enough that you could cover almost every variant without ever having to get trapped.

 

So you're basically suggesting the 3.5 codex. I'm sure alot of us agree it would be better than what we've got.

 

OT - I don't know how I'll fit these guys into my warband. I'll probably end up using counts as but who knows. We'll just have to see how the model(s) look when they come out.

[Arachnid99]

I'll be the first to admit I don't know much about Chaos but for me the big thing is the lack of structure you have in the Imperium. Scout>Battle-Brother>Sergeant>Vet. Sergeant>Captain>First Captain>Chapter Master works great for the Ultramarines but isn't at all Chaosy. I think you guys would be much better with just a single HQ choice called Champion coming in cheap but the biggest and longest list of upgrades available in any Codex. So you could have you as a 90 point 5-5-4-4 ld 9 minor Champion or you could blow 500 points on creating a Deamon Prince, Demagogue, Combat Monster who can take on Draigo and win. With a sufficiently long list of upgrades you could create a Night Lords Talonmaster, a Word Bearers Dark Apostle or a Tzeentch Sorcerer Daemon Prince. Something big enough and broad enough that you could cover almost every variant without ever having to get trapped.

 

So you're basically suggesting the 3.5 codex. I'm sure alot of us agree it would be better than what we've got.

 

OT - I don't know how I'll fit these guys into my warband. I'll probably end up using counts as but who knows. We'll just have to see how the model(s) look when they come out.

 

Like I said I'm not a Chaos player, you're just the target of my Crusades but I thought the 3.5 Codex was all about Legion rules? At least that's what I remember when I played against it.

[*Furyou Miko]

The 3.5 codex takes on whatever qualities of awesome people on the internet want it to have had, because of the rose-tinted eyepieces all Chaos adherents are issued with upon joining the army.

 

Mostly it was about limiting what you could take in exchange for an extra unit option or two elsewhere, and a bunch of anime-inspired upgrades for the daemon prince/chaos lord (Because, seriously, "Kai Gun"? That was literally lifted from YuYu Hakushou.)

[A D-B]

Mostly it was about limiting what you could take in exchange for an extra unit option or two elsewhere,

 

That's the edition I remember.

[*Furyou Miko]

Yeah, but GW protocols stole your rose glasses and stamped on them a while ago, boss. :P

[Aqui]

One of the Characters from my DIY Warband is a former Chaplain, so I'm looking forward to making a model for him. He won't be a Word Bearer Dark Apostle, but will fill a similar role :P

 

I'm also glad about having Cultists as my Warband has reduced numbers of Marines and relies heavily on them.

[Brother Ambroz]

Believe what you want, the point is that you had tons of options for your lords which his exactly what he was describing.

 

I wonder if these guys will be sort of like lieutenants?

[Aqui]

I wonder if these guys will be sort of like lieutenants?

 

I hope so, as it would fit my War band's fluff perfectly.

[Lord Ferox Heartcleaver]

I'll be using them as Skull-Priests of Khorne, of course. Someone needs to show the mere mortal cultists how it's done. Ideally, they'll be able to add some benefit to any unit, though as I'd prefer to have my cultists completely expendable.

[TheDarkApostle]

I'd probably work them as the 1-3 Aspiring Champion HQ choice from the Lost and the Damned armylist, leading hordes of cultists and menacing overseers and slavedrivers, albeit with a really unfortunate and poorly chosen name. (And I will continue the fight about how poorly chosen I think the name is. :D )

 

TDA

[*Furyou Miko]

I dunno, TDA... Moderators are kind of the Elites choice of the forum codex, no? :D

[TheDarkApostle]

Well, I'm a Cedo so that would make me more akin to the Heavy Support Long Fangs of the Space Wolves :D

 

TDA