The nessesity of taking triple A in 6th

[Lord Scytha]

At first glance this might look like an asked and answered topic but trust me it isn't.

There have been a lot of discussion going on regarding the effectiveness of flyers in 6th ed. and how to counter them.

 

Though what I have not seen is a proper discussion if it's necessary to take a dedicated AAA unit in each army list in the new edition.

 

Now an AV10-12 vehicle that can zoom across the entire board in one turn and shoot at things with impunity and which can only be hit on a natural 6 by most units sounds daunting.

 

If you know you're about to face an army list were every fast attack slot is made up of flyers it's natural to bring at least some unit that can effectively take out that threat.

But what if you instead face a fairly standard list but which include a single flyer, like an IG gun line with a single Valkyrie or a vanilla marine drop pod army with a single Stormtalon.

 

Does that single flyer present a large enough threat to warrant that you bring a long a dedicated AAA unit?

Or to put it more succinctly does the inclusion of flyers in 6th ed. mean that all army lists from now on require an obligatory anti-flyer element no matter what?

 

I feel I'm not a good enough player or experienced enough with the 6th ed. to answer that question but I'd love to hear what players who are think.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(It goes without saying that this isn't the place to discuss what units are best at killing flyers or how to make flyers as effective as possible. There are already plenty of threads about that, if that's what you're interested in.)

[Iron Father Ferrum]

The thing about dedicated AA units is that, with the exception of the Hydra, everything currently in the game with Skyfire can also shoot at ground targets with no penalty (and Hydras are twin linked, so that helps them get around the snap shot issue). So really, when you say "dedicated" AA. . . well, the term isn't totally applicable.

[ShinyRhino]

In my local area, Flyers are the new best thing. IG players are fielding 2-4 Valkyries/Vendettas and Necrons are fielding 3+ Night Scythes/Doom Scythes. Some form of AA is now mandatory for anything but a prearranged, friendly game.

Most folks here have picked up the Aegis Defense Line and Quad Gun. Cheap, and fits with almost any army you will run.

Myself, I'm going for the Icarus Lascannon manned by Telion and his Scouts. The ability to use Eye of Vengeance lascannon shots against non-flyer units is great, and BS6 shots are just aces.

Our shop is easing into allowing Forgeworld units, so I'm also looking at the Whirlwind Hyperios or the Hyperios Air Defense Battery. However, those are far more specialized, and will be of minimal use against armies without Flyers. But,t he armies without flyers tend to be Eldar, Space Marines, Tau, Space Wolves, etc, all of which field skimmers of some variety. These units are still at least marginally useful against skimmer targets.

[Axagoras]

Nothing beats a Mortis Contemptor for anti air, BS5 Interceptor and Skyfire.

[Ming]

If you are going to get into ground-based AA, the best investments have both Interceptor and SkyFire. We've dabbled testing in Hydras, and other than that they are cheap, lacking interceptor they are not that effective anymore. Better to spend points on the Aegis Quad, Hyperios Air Defense Battery, or Mortis Contemptor, depending on the points you can afford and ability to tap into Forgeworld). The Hyperios Whirlwind just does not cut it being a single S8 twin-linked missile, and the Icarus lascannon (S9 plus extra buffs) both don't satisfy as much due to the lower rate of firepower. Overall, interceptor trumps all as being able to slam damage a Flyer (or deep striker) before they can actually fire on you. Note the Air Defense Battery is somewhat nerfed by being BS2(ish), but for the points of a Whirlwind variant, you can get about 4 launchers and a controller (frail due to the single controller).

 

Other units for generic marines may become more useful in a dual ground-AA role, just because of their high rate of fire: All HB-Devs (with 12 dice to glance AV11s), and TL Assault Cannon Razorbacks (4 TL S6 shots, to glance AV12), and AC/HB Preds (2 AC, 6 HB), and all-AC Dreads - all might be buffed further if you can make them twin linked.

 

Anyone want to take a math-hammer approach to shooting down a Necron Flyer at 24 Inches using each of these units to generate a comparison? And thrwo in that Tellion option for the fire-able guns?....might be worthwhile...Divide the relative damage by the point cost....

[ShinyRhino]

Note the Air Defense Battery is somewhat nerfed by being BS2(ish), but for the points of a Whirlwind variant, you can get about 4 launchers and a controller (frail due to the single controller).

 

BS3 and twin-linked now. They updated the entry again in IA: Aeronautica. The rules update FAQ also makes them Artillery units, instead of AV10 vehicle units. So, they're T6 (instead of T7), 3+ save, and 2 wounds.

[Captain Idaho]

One way around those pesky fliers is to move aggressively towards the opponent's lines. Ok it's not for everyone, but it essentially forces opponents to lose a turn's shooting because they have to move first before shooting.

 

I'm not taking any fliers or anti-air in my latest tournement list, trusting in positioning and just the sheer amount of weapons I have in my army to damage the odd flier (3 Twin linked Lascannons, twin linked Heavy Bolter, 2 "ordinary" Lascannons, a Missle Launcher, 2 Plasma guns, an Assault Cannon and Autocannon Dread, a Multi-Melta and a pair of Typhoons (2 Heavy Bolters and 4 Missile Launchers essentially!). Since an army of fliers will struggle to be on the table long enough to be a worthwhile points investment (I hope), movement could mitigate their effectiveness.

[Lord Scytha]

The thing about dedicated AA units is that, with the exception of the Hydra, everything currently in the game with Skyfire can also shoot at ground targets with no penalty (and Hydras are twin linked, so that helps them get around the snap shot issue). So really, when you say "dedicated" AA. . . well, the term isn't totally applicable.

 

Discounting forge world models the only AAA units in the game is to my knowledge the hydra and the defense line. Which means that only 50% of all AAA units in the game atm can shot at ground units without penalty.

 

But let me clarify what I mean with dedicated. I mean any unit (and it doesn't have to be one with skyfire) you bring along with the primary focus of countering flyers. If it has dual roles that just a bonus but you picked it because you wanted it to take out flyers.

 

And I don't really care if contemptor dreads are good against flyers and so on. As I said there is already a gazillion threads out there discussing just that.

 

I find Captain Idaho's and ShinyRhion's very interesting though.

 

I find the fact that currently the game suffers from a flyer spam a bit sad but if it's possible to counter them through maneuvering only that has the possibility of making the game very tactical.

 

After all no war was ever won in the air.

[Lysere]

The thing about dedicated AA units is that, with the exception of the Hydra, everything currently in the game with Skyfire can also shoot at ground targets with no penalty (and Hydras are twin linked, so that helps them get around the snap shot issue). So really, when you say "dedicated" AA. . . well, the term isn't totally applicable.

 

Discounting forge world models the only AAA units in the game is to my knowledge the hydra and the defense line. Which means that only 50% of all AAA units in the game atm can shot at ground units without penalty.

 

But let me clarify what I mean with dedicated. I mean any unit (and it doesn't have to be one with skyfire) you bring along with the primary focus of countering flyers. If it has dual roles that just a bonus but you picked it because you wanted it to take out flyers.

 

And I don't really care if contemptor dreads are good against flyers and so on. As I said there is already a gazillion threads out there discussing just that.

 

I find Captain Idaho's and ShinyRhion's very interesting though.

 

I find the fact that currently the game suffers from a flyer spam a bit sad but if it's possible to counter them through maneuvering only that has the possibility of making the game very tactical.

 

After all no war was ever won in the air.

 

 

I actually have taken dedicated AAA on one occasion. That was a bastion with an icarus, I just wanted to try it out. Usually I find if the enemy has a lot of air power they have little on the ground and vice versa, so focus on their weakest point, and if you get a shot on their aircraft go for it. One of my regular opponents likes to run a vendetta against me. If I have 3-4 AT weapons I just focus on his other vehicles until there is nothing left or it drops down to hover mode, which is usually when my predator promptly blows it out of the sky.

 

It doesn't always work, but sometimes you can get lucky with shots and take down flyers even when they are zooming, but never rely on that.