Brother Captain Kezef Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 Wolfguard: TDA,TH,SS: 63pts Ultrasmurf Terminator: TDA, TH, SS: 40pts Same statline, same equipment yet the WG is much more expensive and it's only ability that the smurf lacks is counter-attack and being able to act as a squad sergeant (acute senses is pretty crap for termies now). This is the reason I didn't play my 5th ed Loganwing much, other than fun friendly games. With every WG being a haracter in 6th ed they seemed almost worth their cost, however the latest FAQ has removed that ability. I've finaly decided to abandon Wolfguard on foot and embrace the cavalry, they are worth their cost. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260745-wolfguard-overpriced/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runesch Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 They are not 20pts but 40... Runesch Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260745-wolfguard-overpriced/#findComment-3172767 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Captain Kezef Posted September 11, 2012 Author Share Posted September 11, 2012 They are not 20pts but 40... Runesch Hmm, maths fail. The point still stands however, WG are NOT worth their points, not in a competetive enviroment. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260745-wolfguard-overpriced/#findComment-3172768 Share on other sites More sharing options...
narf Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 You are correct that that wolf guard build is not worth its points, to be honest though why would you want unit like that anyways? the best way to get rid of TDA TH/SS is high volume or fire power, which every army can put out, or high volume of attacks, it only becomes an isue with BA as they also get FnP However nearly every other TDA build is: Want a Squad leader, in TDA, 33 points (same as vanilla seargeant + Power weapon) Want a heavy hitter, hidden within a unit. TDA, chainfist, unit of GH/BC will hide him well. Want cheap TDA unit, we come in a 165 for 5, and then you can upgrade to having the weapons you need rather than all having powerfists, or get a Drop pod, be on the table a turn earlier than your teleporting cousins, and come down where you want with no risk. Want a heavy support optins, TDA with cyclone/assault cannon, can be palmed off to nearly any unit. Now the WG that are not worth the points are the following: Any wolf guard with a jump pack (cant even join JP units) Any wolf guard on a bike (seriously 35 points for a 1 wound model to get a bike) Marginally more useful, but not really: Any WG is power armour, unless in scouts, or in DP unit with a combi weapon. However its your army, use what you want, if you want cheap Th/SS marine take allies. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260745-wolfguard-overpriced/#findComment-3172822 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 They are not 20pts but 40... Runesch Hmm, maths fail. The point still stands however, WG are NOT worth their points, not in a competetive enviroment. Not necessarily true. Yes, the TH/SS build is not "competitive" but only compaired to UM TH/SS which is frankly underpriced. Add in that we can have a mixed unit of long and short ranged capabilities (vs. the pure "shooty"/"choppy" choice that UMs face) makes our WG more compelling. Heck, just for fun - compare this Wolf Guard unit against a 400pt UM Termi squad of either flavor: 1 Wolf Guard Pack, 505 pts 2 Wolf Guard in Power Armour (Infantry; Assault Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Storm Shield x1; Thunder Hammer x1; Acute Senses; And They Shall Know No Fear; Counter-attack) 2 Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour (Infantry; Terminator Armour; Storm Bolter; Power Maul; Cyclone Missile Launcher; Acute Senses; And They Shall Know No Fear; Counter-attack) 5 Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour (Infantry; Terminator Armour; Storm Bolter; Wolf Claw; Acute Senses; And They Shall Know No Fear; Counter-attack) 1 Marked Wolf Guard in Power Armour (Infantry; Assault Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Mark of the Wulfen; Plasma Pistol x2; Acute Senses; And They Shall Know No Fear; Counter-attack) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260745-wolfguard-overpriced/#findComment-3172823 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brom MKIV Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 Hmm, maths fail. The point still stands however, WG are NOT worth their points, not in a competetive enviroment. Wolf guard are competitive but the th/ss build isnt. If you want all th/ss then play deathwing otherwise wolf guard are insanely flexible and aggressively costed. Thats where mixed units come in. Also consider that power axe and storm shield is 48 pts. Personally after being shoehorned into the exact same DW units for years I find it refreshing to be able to custom build units of WG. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260745-wolfguard-overpriced/#findComment-3172859 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulfebane Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 Can your UM tda have wolfclaw/chainfist and still get +1A? Or even just one claw? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260745-wolfguard-overpriced/#findComment-3172877 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannibal.Lictor Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 If you are using them as TH/SS ya they are fail, but thats because you have failed to see them for what they are and where they shine. WG are NOT assault terminators, they are sternguard that can get some awesome firepower and TDA. I run a Loganwing and it dose very well. I just played the guy that got 3rd at Nova and got a draw. Keep in mind I am not a very experienced player, and had it gone to turn 6 then things may have been different. You want TDA assault goodness, get some Lone Wolves. Hey this is six ed and shootie is king, and WG have it in spades. You want to keep your blinders on then go for it. But take a sip of my juice and kick some tail. Here are some awesome WG options: *Logan in a ten man with 2 cyclones=win. My ten man has 7 TDA 2 cyclones, and 3 PA dudes with dual plasma pistols. In the rest of my logan wing i have three 5 man TDAs asscanx2 and a HF. *Wolfpriest with SotH and 10 dudes with dual plasma pistols. Again call out infantry and reroll those flanking ones. Or dump the SotH and take a drop pod and 9 dudes with the WP. Heck go 8 and a TDA with Asscan/HF. *Dont like dual plasma, get some combi weapons with TDA Support and pods. These guys pwn hard, if you use them like an apple and not an orange, LWs are oranges. TWC are nectarines. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260745-wolfguard-overpriced/#findComment-3172990 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ragnarok Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 Yeah, we had this debate when our dex was released. If memory serves it came down to(and to summarize what has been said).... TDA/Shield-Worse Base with combi weapon or SB=Better Flexibility=better (combi weaopns, pack leaders, mixed TDA with PA WG) Now with 6th... Flexibility=Even better than in 5th due to the new power weapon types. I'm sure there is more... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260745-wolfguard-overpriced/#findComment-3173057 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 Yeah, we had this debate when our dex was released. If memory serves it came down to(and to summarize what has been said).... TDA/Shield-Worse Base with combi weapon or SB=Better Flexibility=better (combi weaopns, pack leaders, mixed TDA with PA WG) Now with 6th... Flexibility=Even better than in 5th due to the new power weapon types. I'm sure there is more... More: - Durability, no Wound Allocation Games means proper placement of models with important wargear allows you greater control over who lives and who dies. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260745-wolfguard-overpriced/#findComment-3173065 Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Volsung- Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 Would fielding a unit of Wolfguard in power armor all armed with stormbolter be a pretty decent and cheap upgrade to ultra-Grey Hunters? The way I see it, 6 Wolf Guard in PA gets two melee attacks each, right? and plus the extra points for the Stormbolter, they get two shots, minus the higher cost of TDA. Give them a combi or something to get some more specialist? I'm thinking of doing this with my Runic Armor Powerfist Wolflord and throwing them in a Razorback with a Heavy Bolter. Spice them up with Mark of Wulfen and Standards and all. Oh and a melta or combi-melta. How plausible does this sound? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260745-wolfguard-overpriced/#findComment-3173107 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 The way I see it, 6 Wolf Guard in PA gets two melee attacks each, right? and plus the extra points for the Stormbolter, they get two shots, minus the higher cost of TDA. Give them a combi or something to get some more specialist? I'm thinking of doing this with my Runic Armor Powerfist Wolflord and throwing them in a Razorback with a Heavy Bolter. Spice them up with Mark of Wulfen and Standards and all. Oh and a melta or combi-melta. How plausible does this sound? Well, first - Wolf Guard can't take a standard. Second you'd be better off with a Grey Hunter pack - Elite: Wolf Guard Pack (6#, 141 pts) 5 Wolf Guard in Power Armour (Infantry; Assault Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Close Combat Weapon; Storm Bolter x1; Acute Senses; And They Shall Know No Fear; Counter-attack) 1 Marked Wolf Guard in Power Armour (Infantry; Assault Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Mark of the Wulfen; Close Combat Weapon; Storm Bolter x1; Acute Senses; And They Shall Know No Fear; Counter-attack) Troops: Grey Hunters Pack (6#, 140 pts) 5 Grey Hunters Pack,(Infantry; Infantry; Assault Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Wolf Standard; Bolt Pistol x5; Boltgun x4; Close Combat Weapon x4; Plasma gun; Power Sword; Acute Senses; And They Shall Know No Fear; Counter-attack) 1 Grey Hunter w/ Mark of the Wulfen (Infantry; Assault Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Bolt Pistol; Boltgun; Close Combat Weapon; Acute Senses; And They Shall Know No Fear; Counter-attack; Rending in CC only) Same number of shots within 12", but the GH pack gives you a Plasmagun. Same numerb of attacks in CC, but the GH pack gives you a Power Weapon, and a Wolf Standard. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260745-wolfguard-overpriced/#findComment-3173125 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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