Kastor Krieg Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Since I got the starter, I thought I'd expand on it and make myself the characters that lack minis of their own - the Grand Master of Librarians and the Master of Deathwing. All input is welcome, as always, but please keep it nice. Zero GS used, just knife, glue, bits and imagination. And yes, I know Belial has no Terminator Honors on his shoulder - it's embossed on his left leg's greaves. He has Deathwing insignia all over him instead, because he IS the Deathwing. http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/6428/75655794.jpg http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/1940/51763154.jpg http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/3624/86641181.jpg http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/4748/18269598.jpg http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/3761/36256380.jpg http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/471/22413542.jpg http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/1862/26469753.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Komodo Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Belial's arms are longer than his legs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kastor Krieg Posted September 12, 2012 Author Share Posted September 12, 2012 No, sorry, but they are not. You're not taking into account the downward angle of the first shot, the bulk of the shoulder pad on the side shot (his actual shoulder is about mid-sword at the shot), the bent knees and so on. At most, they are about the same length, which is perfectly normal and proportional (see: The Vitruvian Man). Aside from that, it's an old metal Termie body and arms from the plastic sprue of the new Termies. AND Marines, aside from the upsized ones, are not proportional to begin with. What else did you expect? I'd really like constructive commentary, not drive-by borderline trolling one-liners, please. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Willy Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Maybe drop the sword arm down a bit on the Ezekiel, that blade seems just a tad to large to be pointing up so high, makes it look like a bit to front heavy or that he's reading a school eassy about swords. maybe have it down to his side and angle the head up to be looking at an enemy that way the blade is a nice focus but you don't have to position it towards the front of his body which kinda detracts from the act of reading the book. The direction of the head may give it a bit more direction and as a result motion without actually showing any movement. Can't really go wrong with terminators to be honest, but I think you should just invest in a plastic, the metal just looks awkward in the leg area, especially since the bolters pointed forward and looks like his upper body is running but the legs aren't quite keeping up. My two cents hope it helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Isn't Ezekiel missing his hood? If you can find one just replace the torso back with one from Grey Knights Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Willy Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 GK Psychic hoods a to small for a character psyker, needs to be bigger, use some plasticard or Green Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Or you could use one of these: http://www.modelbits.co.uk/images/dark_ang..._hooded_med.jpg http://www.modelbits.co.uk/images/dark_ang...k_vii_a_med.jpg http://www.modelbits.co.uk/images/dark_ang...k_vii_b_med.jpg http://www.modelbits.co.uk/images/dark_ang...t_style_med.jpg Ezekiel is psychic and he has a hood ;) BTW is there a reason why contrary to DA and Librarium tradition Ezekiel is not wearing a robe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bungicats Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Other than a few mould lines I saw these two look good. I agree that the sword arm on Belial may need to be postioned in manner that doesn't distract from the book. Maybe strighten the arm (ala pointing the sword) and turning the head that way? Or simply dropping it down some still keeping the point out of the dirt. BTW may I ask as to which book bit that is? Also I enjoyed the semi-feral grin on the termie head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razblood Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Erm...you do know there is an Ezekiel model right? You could probably pick him up on e-bay in metal or just wait till the Finecast one comes out. Ezekiel - Grandmaster of Librarians You would probably be better off using the DV Libby as a Zeke proxy to be honest as the only thing that could really be considered "Librariany" about your kitbash is the book in his hand. As for Belial, you would be better off building him out of plastic entirely as the metal Termie with new style plastic arms really just looks bad ;) This is not a trolling post, just my honest opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kastor Krieg Posted September 12, 2012 Author Share Posted September 12, 2012 That's pretty refreshing, thanks for the feedback guys :) Maybe drop the sword arm down a bit on the Ezekiel, that blade seems just a tad to large to be pointing up so high, makes it look like a bit to front heavy or that he's reading a school eassy about swords.maybe have it down to his side and angle the head up to be looking at an enemy that way the blade is a nice focus but you don't have to position it towards the front of his body which kinda detracts from the act of reading the book. The direction of the head may give it a bit more direction and as a result motion without actually showing any movement. The intent there was him reading the spell out of the book and at the same time focusing his power through his force weapon, as battle psykers do. Hence the pose, head turned to the book, sword raised mid-way, slightly tilted forwards (I used a short bolt pistol arm, bent at the elbow, to straighten the sword arm a tad because the straight-armed sword bit is way overused). Can't really go wrong with terminators to be honest, but I think you should just invest in a plastic, the metal just looks awkward in the leg area, especially since the bolters pointed forward and looks like his upper body is running but the legs aren't quite keeping up. Belial's shown mid-stride, left foot flat on the ground, right semi lifted, about to make the next step. Sword by his side in a lowered arm, storm bolter up and firing. About to step forward, slowly moving with fire. Wanted to show the "slow and purposeful" quality of terminators, the new bodies don't have that pose anymore and I'm not good enought to reposition legs. Isn't Ezekiel missing his hood? If you can find one just replace the torso back with one from Grey Knights People are going to eat my face, probably, but I really do not like the psyker hood's visuals. Also, the "psyker hood" is not a hood at all. It's a construction of psychically attuned crystals, it's a psyker-machine. As far as I'm concerned, it's what the guy has by his head, the extended autosenses instrument. Or you could use one of these:http://www.modelbits.co.uk/images/dark_ang..._hooded_med.jpg http://www.modelbits.co.uk/images/dark_ang...k_vii_a_med.jpg http://www.modelbits.co.uk/images/dark_ang...k_vii_b_med.jpg http://www.modelbits.co.uk/images/dark_ang...t_style_med.jpg Ezekiel is psychic and he has a hood ;) See, aside from the last one, the Templarish one, they all look cheesy as hell to me, can't help it. And I can't get my hands on one, anyway. BTW is there a reason why contrary to DA and Librarium tradition Ezekiel is not wearing a robe? Same reason why my Templars don't have tabards, I do not have the bits required and can't afford to get them from abroad. Other than a few mould lines I saw these two look good. I agree that the sword arm on Belial may need to be postioned in manner that doesn't distract from the book. Maybe strighten the arm (ala pointing the sword) and turning the head that way? Or simply dropping it down some still keeping the point out of the dirt. I'll try tinkering with it, thanks :pinch: BTW may I ask as to which book bit that is? Also I enjoyed the semi-feral grin on the termie head. Another reason why I like the old termie body, too :) Erm...you do know there is an Ezekiel model right? You could probably pick him up on e-bay in metal or just wait till the Finecast one comes out. Ezekiel - Grandmaster of Librarians Yeah, and while I like the pose, the model is fugly and the pose was done way better by the starter's Company Master. http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2540241a_60010199006_DVCompanyMaster_873x627.jpg You would probably be better off using the DV Libby as a Zeke proxy to be honest as the only thing that could really be considered "Librariany" about your kitbash is the book in his hand. I'd like to have a normal Librarian and Ezekiel at the same time. And for Librariany things, that's the way I like it. He has the book, he has the special chapel-backpack, he has a lot of ornamentation and relics, his master-crafted bolt pistol in the holster. I'm quite happy with the bits I used. As for Belial, you would be better off building him out of plastic entirely as the metal Termie with new style plastic arms really just looks bad ;) As above, some liked them, some didn't. I had my reasons to use this combination, so fair enough :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gk_fury Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 I think the problem here is you're trying to create two of the most lore covered Dark Angels characters and to do that you have to get them right, otherwise a lot of people just aren't going to buy into the models. Starting with Ezekiel hes the Grand Master of Librarians of the DA chapter, he is literally the dogs boll*cks, the big daddy of librarians so he needs the robe and hood. To me that model is a sargent reading his favourate literature while holding a sword, it doesn't scream librarian nevermind a badass character. Next Belial being Master of the Deathwing has to look utterly badass. I personally love the terminator kits as I believe you can get almost any pose or purpose of a model out of them. Nigh on unlimited options and configurations for customisation which the metal model you have offered doesn't work in my opinion, You can get the same legs in the Dark angels Chapter upgrade sprue, slap a body on there with the same arms and you are some way towards getting it right. Anyway I'm not knocking the conversion quality or your time and effort I just don't believe the models you have created really get across the feel of the characters in lore they are trying to represent and I feel that will be the same for others viewing. Finishing with some constructive criticism, they both need robes to cement their stature in the DA army, Ezekiel needs his hood and Belial could do with more... grandeur, as much as he has Deathwing insignia he still looks rather plain for the Master of the Deathwing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 People are going to eat my face, probably, but I really do not like the psyker hood's visuals. Also, the "psyker hood" is not a hood at all. It's a construction of psychically attuned crystals, it's a psyker-machine. As far as I'm concerned, it's what the guy has by his head, the extended autosenses instrument.I know that it is a machine and not a hood, but that machine goes on the head, and could probably be hidden underneath a real hood. If you look at the official Ezekiel. You may want to model a cable protruding from the covering hood, just to be on the safe side. See, aside from the last one, the Templarish one, they all look cheesy as hell to me, can't help it. And I can't get my hands on one, anyway. BTW is there a reason why contrary to DA and Librarium tradition Ezekiel is not wearing a robe? Same reason why my Templars don't have tabards, I do not have the bits required and can't afford to get them from abroad. Where are you and who would you have to buy them from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kastor Krieg Posted September 12, 2012 Author Share Posted September 12, 2012 I think the problem here is you're trying to create two of the most lore covered Dark Angels characters and to do that you have to get them right, otherwise a lot of people just aren't going to buy into the models. Yeah, I realize that, that's a very good point. Starting with Ezekiel hes the Grand Master of Librarians of the DA chapter, he is literally the dogs boll*cks, the big daddy of librarians so he needs the robe and hood. To me that model is a sargent reading his favourate literature while holding a sword, it doesn't scream librarian nevermind a badass character. Could be true. He's gonna stand out in my DA Army at least due to the fact that nothing's helmetless, not even the Sarge from the starter. The Sarge got a Templar style v-shaped helmet instead of his bald head. At the same time, one of the reasons I made the mini like that was that I don't see the current Ezekiel model as badass. He comes off to me as an utmost generic Space Marine Captain-With-A-Power-Sword, who happens to have a hood (like most every single Veteran) and a book dangling on his lap. Does that scream uber-psyker? Nah, more like "well-read close-combat Captain", to me. So I tried portraying the guy doing something psykery (book, force sword, definitely not a "Imma cut ya up" pose, etc.) with whatever bits I had at hand. Next Belial being Master of the Deathwing has to look utterly badass. I personally love the terminator kits as I believe you can get almost any pose or purpose of a model out of them. Nigh on unlimited options and configurations for customisation which the metal model you have offered doesn't work in my opinion, You can get the same legs in the Dark angels Chapter upgrade sprue, slap a body on there with the same arms and you are some way towards getting it right. Same problem as above - a definitely limited source of bits. Got an incomplete DA upgrade kit from a friend, some WFB bits too, did what I thought looked cool. Anyway I'm not knocking the conversion quality or your time and effort I just don't believe the models you have created really get across the feel of the characters in lore they are trying to represent and I feel that will be the same for others viewing. Finishing with some constructive criticism, they both need robes to cement their stature in the DA army, Ezekiel needs his hood and Belial could do with more... grandeur, as much as he has Deathwing insignia he still looks rather plain for the Master of the Deathwing. I think I can do the grandeur a bit more justice when I get to the painting stage, add a freehand banner here and there. I won't be able to get my hands on robes and I do not like how they obscure 70% of detail on a miniature anyway. Maybe some loincloth, maybe if I have a Templar tabard left somewhere. But, yeah, I'd leave robes for Vets, same way my BT Marshal, TDA Chaplain or EmpChamp do not wear tabards at all. It's veteran status equipment (mostly, because it's not so set, Vets are also portrayed and modeled without any cloth on them!), but somehow I feel that named characters are beyond that. I'd rather try pulling that off with accesories or with poses (e.g. how Belial here slowly but assuredly pushes onwards - put him on the front of 20-30 Termies and you immediately know that they will get from A to B and beyond and there's NO stopping them, nu-uh! :) I know that it is a machine and not a hood, but that machine goes on the head, and could probably be hidden underneath a real hood. If you look at the official Ezekiel. You may want to model a cable protruding from the covering hood, just to be on the safe side. Ergo, the guy will have some cables running to his bald head, good idea! :) Where are you and who would you have to buy them from? I'm in Warsaw, Poland. I have no clue, really, as most Polish bits shops that run GW bits are either defunct or do not have those I'm interested in in stock at the moment. And postage from abroad would be a lot more than the bits' worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varred Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Hi my friend. i'm also from Poland, but i live in Bielsko and our local shop has Mail Order option - you pay only foe bits and nothing for the transport. That's how i got my DA upgrade sprue to make some fallen. Next thing. Nice models however, however, however totally not 'characterish'. You've made some nice poses - yes i agree but these two guys are definatelly neither ezekiel nor belial. Maybe with some paint on them they'll lok more badass but for now they're regular marines. I think that psychic hood is not that small to be injected into skull or under the skin and deffinatelly not without some scars, deformation. The thing about belial is thet he HAS to heve a robe even if sculpted in GS, which isnt that hard after all. He is some kind of icon for Da and he has to be bare headed or hooded - it's the unwritten rule of GW 'every character on the field has to be bare headed'. And there are only 2 characters without this option. It's Kranon and Balthasar (don't speaking of Dark Eldar, because their helmets are important to their badass overall army look) Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kastor Krieg Posted September 12, 2012 Author Share Posted September 12, 2012 Hi my friend. i'm also from Poland, but i live in Bielsko and our local shop has Mail Order option - you pay only foe bits and nothing for the transport. That's how i got my DA upgrade sprue to make some fallen. Hey, mate. I actually work at a GW/Warmachine FLGS, so I could Mail Order an Upgrade Kit from here, it's more that I don't really want a whole one and can't afford a whole one. And then I'd still need a Termie body, that hooded head, a cloaked body, so on. It stacks up pretty fast :) Next thing. Nice models however, however, however totally not 'characterish'. You've made some nice poses - yes i agree but these two guys are definatelly neither ezekiel nor belial. Maybe with some paint on them they'll lok more badass but for now they're regular marines. I totally get where you're coming from. I could technically use this guy as a regular Libra and use the starter dude as Ezekiel if I give him more bits. That's doable for me on my budget :P And my "Belial" guy definitely has a lot more "DA" going for him than the regular or even starter DA termies. Since in the old metal body the head is more protruding out, maybe I can try and sculpt some hood for him to make him more Belial-y. Slap the helmet wings on the top of his armor, maybe? Give him a freehand painted standard? If I could spring the cash, I'd just go for one of Ścibor's miniatures -_- I think that psychic hood is not that small to be injected into skull or under the skin and deffinatelly not without some scars, deformation. That can be arranged, even if he will be only a regular Librarian. The thing about belial is thet he HAS to heve a robe even if sculpted in GS, which isnt that hard after all. Well, I never tried that and I don't suppose I'd manage sculpting a whole robe. He is some kind of icon for Da and he has to be bare headed or hooded - it's the unwritten rule of GW 'every character on the field has to be bare headed'. And there are only 2 characters without this option. It's Kranon and Balthasar (don't speaking of Dark Eldar, because their helmets are important to their badass overall army look) Well, I hate that rule with a passion and my armies barely have any bareheaded guys in them. Maybe some in the Marshal's Command Squad, but even Marshal himself is one of the Space Marine Chapter Master guys, with a templar helmet on his head. Another one of those I use has a bare head, but carries the exact same v-shaped helmet with him. Were I to buy Helbrecht, the first thing I'd do would be slapping a templar helmet on. That much more badass, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varred Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 I can agree w/ you that helmen mehreens are much mor badass in more cases but think about astorath, abaddon, or even cassius. What would they look like in helmets? And in my opinion Belial is kind of badass that doesn't need a helmet. You know i always imagine him as hooded bald man with bionic eye on the left side. Thimk aboput making him bare headed, but it has to be YOUR miniature, not mine nor someone else's. remember 'bout it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPK Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Some Inspiration for your Belial. I'd say he is one of the most highly converted DA characters (though he of course does not have a model). Bah, I don't think a robe is necessary either and as you can see form the link above, many DA players do not use a robe. Nor do I think he has to be bare headed - mine isn't. Even the new terminator sarge in the starter set only has a tabard and I think he would make a fine Belial - maybe just add some bits, build up his base and make him stand out with the painting. I also like Turmiel in the DV set as a proxy Zeke however I think your conversion is coming along fine. My preference would be to add an actual hood (cut from a shoulder pad perhaps?), but the paint job will definitely say "librarian" if you use the typical blue color with or without a more pronounced hood. Now, on a side note, if you plan on playing Belial, I recommend NOT using the Power sword + SB combo. Visit the DA forum for tips, there is actually a relatively new thread about how to equip him, but no matter what the sword is out. Of course, play however you want in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kastor Krieg Posted September 12, 2012 Author Share Posted September 12, 2012 Thanks! Awesome inspiration, much appreciated. Only... did I already say that "blue Librarians" does not click with me as much as "red Techmarines" and a blue guy "out of the blue" in a green-bone army sticks out like a sore thumb? My Librarian will likely be painted in DA Green or DW Bone, or maybe even in the Ravenwing pattern, why not, all special snowflake Chaplain-like. Anything but the blue. Especially since he'd get mixed up with the blue-crimson CFs I will run by DA as Allies :( EDIT: This psychic-hood-outta-shoulder-pad idea is BRILLIANT! *_* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPK Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Only... did I already say that "blue Librarians" does not click with me as much as "red Techmarines" and a blue guy "out of the blue" in a green-bone army sticks out like a sore thumb? Sorry, must have missed it. You could at least do one pad blue - but it's your propagative. If you go with the shoulder pad into a hood method, I think that would be enough to make him stand out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kastor Krieg Posted September 12, 2012 Author Share Posted September 12, 2012 I was joking, it's just that you reminded me about another non-canonic thing the Libra will have. And again, a single blue pad (e.g. the prominent "casting hand" one, with force sword and Termie Honors), will be a definitely better idea. The "shoulder-hood" will get there, but the old typ armor I used had a collar, so I will need to remove that, unless I manage to squeeze the hood in there regardless. Thanks again! :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kastor Krieg Posted September 12, 2012 Author Share Posted September 12, 2012 Does the shoulder-hood rotate with the head or is it fixed onto the armour and the head rotates wuthin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPK Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 I believe that fluff-wise, psychic hoods are fixed in place - see Ron's (he did the tutorial on the hood) conversion here . There is still a good degree of how much the Librarian can turn his head if that is what you are worried about. And yours doesn't have to be the same exact shape - you could take a little more off here or there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kastor Krieg Posted September 12, 2012 Author Share Posted September 12, 2012 Take a look at Ezekiel now. Gave him the shoulder-hood, gave him another backpack, a funky one - with a small sword strapped to it at the back and skulls on the air intake front. Better? ;) http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/4963/58477221.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varred Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 You're alomst home brother! I'd add some cabels from hood to head and go on to paintjob if u really don't like/ does't have means to buy a cloak for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Maybe you could experiment with green stuff/modelling putty to fashion a robe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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