Flying Daemons

[Ushtarador]

Just go for it in a tourney, especially if there are lots of daemons around! Iin a friendly game it might be a little over the top, but then, maybe your friend shouldn't field the full circus as well :lol:

[CitadelArmyGuy]

I find the irony a bit delicious, nonetheless. Chaos Daemons being a codex to fear? Used to be laughable in 5th edition. What goes around comes around I suppose-- people who played Daemons to begin with are pretty happy I'm sure. Every Codex gets their day in the sun sooner or later.

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(unless you play Sisters :lol: )

[Morticon]

Chaos Daemons being a codex to fear? Used to be laughable in 5th edition.

 

We have a player down here that is absolutely fearsome with them, and played for 1st place in last year's nationals with his Daemons (lost in the game for 1st against DE though). He won the nats 2 years in a row with Daemons.

Not sure about international meta, but theyre super fearsome here.

 

Also, the new screamer boost makes them VERY highly powered.

[xGSTARx]

A lot of thoughts on how to beat the list using allies not many ideas on a pure BA. Would be be looking to ground with say assault cannon razors or something similar then maybe assault with something punchy?

[Venemox]

With snap shots, it seems to be a game of rolling a lot of dice, and nothing (BA) does it like a Rifelman Dread or a dakka Baal. The main guns on both the Rifleman and the Baal put out 4 twin linked shots. Against flyers, every hit WILL rend with the Baal's assault cannons. The 6 added strength 5 AP 4 shots on the Baal's sponson heavy bolters will put a damper on a lot of things, both in the air and on the ground.

 

Both are good all rounder choices, even with the hit they took by the virtue of being vehicle sin 6th.

[Morticon]

Against flyers, every hit WILL rend with the Baal's assault cannons.

 

Think that was like 4th ed matey.

Hits dont rend, wounds/pen rolls do.

[Rottimus]

I play against daemons quite often and do quite well...

 

I do however HATE flying MC's. They reap a fearsom tally.

 

My key unit? Sternguard, lots of them.

 

I've killed great unclean ones, bloodthirsters, daemon princes in 1 volley.

 

Now that we can move and fully rapid fire we can get 20 shots off with a 18' range (12 plus 6 for moving)

This allows you to react a little and pump 2+ to wound bolter shells into toughness 6 baddies.

 

Thats almost always at least 10 wounds. My opponent despises my sternguard. I couple usually have a sang priest attached.

That feel no pain and furious charge (if you need to) is always helpful.

 

I can big-up sternies enough, even snapfiring they'll hit a few.

 

. my two cents.

[Chaplain Admetus]

I tried that Sternguard trick on Thursday. It did not work. Its hitting the damn things that's problematic. The biggest problem is that they count as flying (so Snap-Fire only) on the turn they come down, and after that are free to do overgrown pigeon impressions involving fly-by crapping on your units.

 

I can support Rottimus' ploy of Sternguard one-shotting monstrous creatures. I myself have done it to Daemon princes, avatars, tervigons, most of a wraithlord (they needed help from the devastators to take off that last wound), just about anything nasty. The issue is getting them to the ground; once they're there the Sternies will make short work of them unless you're hopelessly unlucky or space chicken is present.

 

Frankly, the flying MC list is about the only list that worries me at ToS next month, the other culprits being Necron and IG flyer spam.

[Demoulius]

Havent played against them yet (probably will this wednesday) but from what I can gather getting rid of flying monstrous creatures is alot of more trouble then its worth :( hit them on 6's, then a 1 in 3 chance of them falling to the floor (regardless if you wound or not) seem pretty slim chances of taking one down. Not only that but they can just fly around, hitting stuff as they please without fear of reprisal :huh: they can also choose when they want to assault when they want. They just hope from gliding over to "imma smash your face" mode and charge you...

 

er...HOW is this balanced? Flying monstrous creatures were already incredible powerfull without these changes. Now theyre nigh indestructible from what I can gather...

 

Excuse the rant but I dont see why these changes were added.... at...all...

 

Now the rant is over, might I suggest having a Baal or tactical squad with heavy bolter or somesuch sit in your DZ. If one shows up fire a turn or two at it till he falls to the ground and breaks its ankle. If he falls he loses an extra wound without any kind of save and most have...what, 4? If you wound ontop of that then all the better :D I think the Baal fits the bill the most though. Zoom up (your hitting at 6's anyway) and unload all your hits on that beast. If you can cast that reroll power from the BRB on it (can you cast that on vehicles?) then all the better. A quik round of shooting should (hopefully) see it plummeting to the ground, if anything else you will get 1 or 2 hits with a good chance to wound him :)

 

Not perfect but for the points you can do a whole lot worse ;)

[Jolemai]

I tried that Sternguard trick on Thursday. It did not work. Its hitting the damn things that's problematic. The biggest problem is that they count as flying (so Snap-Fire only) on the turn they come down, and after that are free to do overgrown pigeon impressions involving fly-by crapping on your units.

 

I can support Rottimus' ploy of Sternguard one-shotting monstrous creatures. I myself have done it to Daemon princes, avatars, tervigons, most of a wraithlord (they needed help from the devastators to take off that last wound), just about anything nasty. The issue is getting them to the ground; once they're there the Sternies will make short work of them unless you're hopelessly unlucky or space chicken is present.

 

Frankly, the flying MC list is about the only list that worries me at ToS next month, the other culprits being Necron and IG flyer spam.

 

Can you fit in any AA weaponry into your force?

[Killax]

Havent played against them yet (probably will this wednesday) but from what I can gather getting rid of flying monstrous creatures is alot of more trouble then its worth :( hit them on 6's, then a 1 in 3 chance of them falling to the floor (regardless if you wound or not) seem pretty slim chances of taking one down. Not only that but they can just fly around, hitting stuff as they please without fear of reprisal :huh: they can also choose when they want to assault when they want. They just hope from gliding over to "imma smash your face" mode and charge you...

 

er...HOW is this balanced? Flying monstrous creatures were already incredible powerfull without these changes. Now theyre nigh indestructible from what I can gather...

 

Excuse the rant but I dont see why these changes were added.... at...all...

 

Now the rant is over, might I suggest having a Baal or tactical squad with heavy bolter or somesuch sit in your DZ. If one shows up fire a turn or two at it till he falls to the ground and breaks its ankle. If he falls he loses an extra wound without any kind of save and most have...what, 4? If you wound ontop of that then all the better :D I think the Baal fits the bill the most though. Zoom up (your hitting at 6's anyway) and unload all your hits on that beast. If you can cast that reroll power from the BRB on it (can you cast that on vehicles?) then all the better. A quik round of shooting should (hopefully) see it plummeting to the ground, if anything else you will get 1 or 2 hits with a good chance to wound him :)

 

Not perfect but for the points you can do a whole lot worse ;)

 

To be honest, there is just a whole lot more in 6th that is frankly said, quite retarded. Hitting flyers seems as a backwards step in 40K right now, imho.

 

Same can be said for that whole Power Axe/Power Sword bull, but that's a whole different story.

 

Long story short, use Daemon Hunters vs Daemons.

[Chaplain Admetus]

I tried that Sternguard trick on Thursday. It did not work. Its hitting the damn things that's problematic. The biggest problem is that they count as flying (so Snap-Fire only) on the turn they come down, and after that are free to do overgrown pigeon impressions involving fly-by crapping on your units.

 

I can support Rottimus' ploy of Sternguard one-shotting monstrous creatures. I myself have done it to Daemon princes, avatars, tervigons, most of a wraithlord (they needed help from the devastators to take off that last wound), just about anything nasty. The issue is getting them to the ground; once they're there the Sternies will make short work of them unless you're hopelessly unlucky or space chicken is present.

 

Frankly, the flying MC list is about the only list that worries me at ToS next month, the other culprits being Necron and IG flyer spam.

 

Can you fit in any AA weaponry into your force?

 

Not without cutting stuff that will be better against more things more often. All I could realistically do is junk my devastators or the Baal in favour of a defence line with a quad gun and a little bit more 'stuff', but against more than 1 FMC the quad gun aint gonna cut it.

[SamaNagol]

Fortifications are kind of crappy for a fast moving elite army like BA

 

And especially at 1500pts when a full Troops choice is around the 225-240 mark, it's tough to find the 75 points for them.

 

I think most of the time I am going to have to just alpha strike the troops choices and hope I have enough stuff alive to win on objectives. And PRAY that Fateweaver doesn't get the Scoring trait

[Jorre]

The stern guard tactic works great! You do need to support them though. I usually take a storm raven with las/melta and a quad gun. That's pretty much 2 chances to ground the FMC, if not to kill them outright. On top of that 2 attack bikes with heavy bolters are great for grounding demons/harassing hard to get at demon troops and stealing line breaker!

 

I had all these in a 1750 game and was able to take down 1 kairos, 1 blood thirster, 2/3 demons princes in a game that ended turn 5!

[CitadelArmyGuy]

I had all these in a 1750 game and was able to take down 1 kairos, 1 blood thirster, 2/3 demons princes in a game that ended turn 5!

The force is strong with this one!

 

What were the dice like in that game? Did things seem on par for odds, or did you have really good fortune? (not to bring your skill into question, please that's not how I mean it)

[Jorre]

I had all these in a 1750 game and was able to take down 1 kairos, 1 blood thirster, 2/3 demons princes in a game that ended turn 5!

The force is strong with this one!

 

What were the dice like in that game? Did things seem on par for odds, or did you have really good fortune? (not to bring your skill into question, please that's not how I mean it)

 

I did have a couple really good rolls, but my dice definitely were not hot by any stretch! If you have a storm raven every weapon is twin linked except the blood strikes. Quad gun is twin linked that alone is 2 guaranteed chances to knock a bird out of the sky. Once you do the stern guard and divination libbies (more rerolls) go to town. If the raven and quad gun don't get lucky I have the attack bikes as a back up since you only need to hit to bring a bird down.

 

When you have rerolls on almost all your big guns it's easy to look like your really lucky even if your not!

 

Demons hate sternguard and can kill them very quickly and usually go out of there way to do so. So my divination libby usually has terminator armour and a storm shield. He's quite capable of tanking a demon prince in hand to hand while the sternguard krak grenade the jerk to death. He can even tank the bloodthirster if he gets the reroll saves power!

[Rottimus]

 

I did have a couple really good rolls, but my dice definitely were not hot by any stretch! If you have a storm raven every weapon is twin linked except the blood strikes. Quad gun is twin linked that alone is 2 guaranteed chances to knock a bird out of the sky. Once you do the stern guard and divination libbies (more rerolls) go to town. If the raven and quad gun don't get lucky I have the attack bikes as a back up since you only need to hit to bring a bird down.

 

 

Actually they only take 1 grounded test per unit. Not one for every hit. i.e foe example, 1 grounded test from all hits from sternguard & 1 test from all hits from a quad gun.

 

crapola I know.

[Killax]

If shooty is preferred, what about the Baal Predator with Heavy Bolters, seems like an idea altough it goes POOF when hit in any way possible.

[SamaNagol]

And nowhere in the rules does it say they lose the 'hit on 6s' caveat when they are grounded. Just that they may be assaulted

[Ushtarador]

"Page 49 – Flying Monstrous Creatures, Grounded Tests.

Change the second sentence of the third paragraph to read “A

Grounded Flying Monstrous Creature is treated as if it is in

Glide mode with immediate effect, and can therefore be

targeted normally and charged in the following Assault phase.

Furthermore, the model automatically loses the Jink special

rule (if it had it), but can otherwise revert to Swoop mode

again in its next turn.”"

 

It was a stupid and unfair interpretation anyway, good thing they recognised it.

[Jorre]

 

 

Actually they only take 1 grounded test per unit. Not one for every hit. i.e foe example, 1 grounded test from all hits from sternguard & 1 test from all hits from a quad gun.

 

crapola I know.

 

Actually that's exactly how I was playing it... 2 chances to ground the FMC being the storm raven and quad gun! Why you would assume I was rolling more than once per unit is beyond me

[BloodReavers]

How does a Flying Monsterous creature count as flying from reserves if it doesn't move more than 12 inches? I know you declare... but that only seems to work when coming on from the board edge.

[CitadelArmyGuy]

How does a Flying Monsterous creature count as flying from reserves if it doesn't move more than 12 inches? I know you declare... but that only seems to work when coming on from the board edge.

The recent main rulebook FAQ