How effective are DA Librarians?

[Tamwulf]

This topic came about after reading the FAQ topic here. Towards the end of Page 2, several statements are made about how great the DA Librarian is and in a general way, Psykers. What do people think about using Psykers with the Dark Angels? Can other armies do it better? Should we try to develop some kind of strategy for using them when the new Codex is supposedly so close? Or do we take allies for the Psykers other armies have? Have Psykers had a large impact in your games?

 

About the Dark Angels Librarian:

He's a level one Psyker with two powers, right? But he only has one warp charge, so you lose access to 1-2 of the powers on each list (the good ones IMHO). How are you guys using the Librarian? I've pretty much come to the conclusion that unless you are a level 2 Psyker, don't bother. What am I missing here that makes a level 1 Librarian so powerful? Especially when the best LD the Dark Angels Librarian can muster is a 9. Hopefully, we get access to at least a level 2 Psyker in the next codex.

 

I really like the bonus to Deny the Witch his psychic hood provides, but it's very situational and only good for his own unit or possibly a close one. The only time this has become really useful has been against other Space Marine Armies fielding lots of Psykers.

 

To a large extent, unless the other army has gone "overboard" with Psykers, like a GK Libby and Inquisitor list, or Bugs, or IG with 2-3 Psyker Battle Squads, the powers haven't really been overwhelming. I haven't really experienced anyone taking a Psyker heavy army yet. The few times I've fought against an enemy Psyker, they've never had a really good power that complimented or synergized with their list. Anyone can really see some powerful combo's out there, but taken with the fact that the powers are all random, you need to make a leadership test, and your opponent can usually make a Deny the Witch roll against you, kind of moves the BRB Powers into the "Meh" category.

 

What does everyone here think? And remember, I'm asking from a Dark Angels point of view.

[Cpt_Reaper]

I prefer to run Ezekiel rather than a generic librarian. Sure, he might only be Mastery Level 1 but he brings a bubble of Fearless, he is in Artificer armour and has Master Crafted weapons. I don't even run my Termi-librarian anymore. Generic Librarians just don't bring enough to justify running them.

[Pyro X]

I like running mine on a bike in the RW squad with the banner/medic. with divination you only need 1 warp change unless your wanting to use

the force weapon. some times if I got the points I'll go combi plasma so I can pump out 7 plasma shots before charging in (rapid fire with 3 and 1 pistol).

[march10k]

Not worth it. Chaplains just do more.

[IndigoJack]

What do Chaplains do that a librarian with prescience can't? Chaplains make the unit their in fearless. A librarian is fearless and (thanks to the new wording in 6th) confers fearless to the unit he is in. Chaplains allow you to re-roll failed to hit on the charge, prescience allows you to re-roll failed to hurts for an entire game turn (provided you pass your psychic test). Not enough? Your librarian still has another roll on the psychic table to increase his versatility. Yes, the chaplain has a 4+ invul that the librarian does not but good model placement and challenges should help your librarian survive long enough to do some serious damage.

[MadMek83]

Way 5th and such edition codexes have mostly built, I am getting a feeling DA librarians will get nice boost up... But let's face it, chaplains to give more certainty unit fearless and getting presience in dice roll is way to uncertain to count everything for it. Chaplains seem more surefire way with less random factors than libby. Besides chappy gives nice boosts to unit without too much hasle. People are just too much concerned the Crozius Arcanum nerf. Just my humble opinion, I just started Dark Angels though.

[Seahawk]

As I put elsewhere:

 

You know, I did debate with having just a bog standard librarian, but then I compared him to Ezekiel and the choice was obvious: +1 W, Ld, Sv, and psychic power, 2 master-crafted weapons, and the book of salvation are all very much worth a mere +50 points. To point it out, it'd be:

 

15: +1 A & Ld

15: Artificer armor

15: +1 Wound

10: Master-crafting

5: +1 psychic power

??: Fearless bubble

 

Even without factoring in a cost for the Book (which is pretty darn awesome), you're already looking at a savings of about 10 points. Basically, I struggle to find a reason to take a 120 point jo schmoe over a 170 point Ezekiel.

 

How effective is he? Incredibly. A chaplain can't protect his transport, or make nearby units Fearless, or have his reroll continue to work in the enemy turn, etc.

[IndigoJack]

Way 5th and such edition codexes have mostly built, I am getting a feeling DA librarians will get nice boost up... But let's face it, chaplains to give more certainty unit fearless and getting presience in dice roll is way to uncertain to count everything for it. Chaplains seem more surefire way with less random factors than libby. Besides chappy gives nice boosts to unit without too much hasle. People are just too much concerned the Crozius Arcanum nerf. Just my humble opinion, I just started Dark Angels though.

 

The librarian does not give the unit fearless because of a psychic power, it gives the unit fearless because it is fearless. Also, prescience is a primaris power, not one you roll for, so if you have access to divination, you can take prescience, no rolling required. The chaplain gives a boost to the unit if and only if you can get the charge. Otherwise, no re-rolling. Sure there are ways to help him, such has putting him on a bike, giving him a jump pack, or throwing his unit in a crusader, but all of these add significant price increases. All a librarian needs to do is pass a psychic test. Sure there are a few armies that can make that more difficult, but most armies rely on DtW, which cannot stop blessings.

[Cactus]

Also, the prescience power applies to shooting attacks as well as close combat, and can be cast on any friendly unit within 12" rather than just the one the librarian has joined. The psychic test is a risk* but that's the price you pay for more utility.

 

*As it happens, my librarian killed himself last week with two successive perils of the Warp. At least they were both double ones so I got the benefits of the blessing each time!

[Apahllo]

So I played 2 games today with Ezekiel leading a unit of allied stern guard, and it was deadly effective. Especially when he has precognition(which I got once).

 

First game they killed 2 10 man scout squads and a 10 man tactical squad while soaking up a lot of fire with the help from precognition.

 

The second game was against tau. Got 2 fire warrior squads 2 stealth suit team and a unit of pathfinders with perfect timing being the spell of choice and using misfortune once.

 

It's was quite the tally and was supported well by outflanking ravenwing escorted by a stormtalon. But precognition was amazing, the most effective power I know of.

 

I want to try using another DA Libby for divination on 2 squads. Maybe in a drop pod or with ravenwing/deathwing.

[IndigoJack]

I actually never thought precognition was that great, since it only affects the psyker but I can see it being used to make the librarian soak wounds.

[Apahllo]

I actually never thought precognition was that great, since it only affects the psyker but I can see it being used to make the librarian soak wounds.

Yes 2+ rerollable was awesome combined with 2+ LOS!

The primus is good too, I only used it in the last 2 turns. It really adds and extra punch to the squad. My only complaint is the whole lv1 thing, 1 power a turn is so annoying.

[Haranin]

ld 9 when other marines get 10 isn't annoying?

[Apahllo]

ld 9 when other marines get 10 isn't annoying?

It's manageable at 1 power a turn. And Ezekiel is 10 and miles better than a normal Libby. Fearless bubble, 3 wounds and a wider variety of powers.

[pueriexdeus]

Can anybody direct me to the proper pages in the BGB that outlines Psychic Powers? I cannot find them anywhere in the V6.

[BigGumbo]

Can anybody direct me to the proper pages in the BGB that outlines Psychic Powers? I cannot find them anywhere in the V6.

They're quite near the back of the reference section, if I remember correctly - definitely not where you would expect to find them in, you know, the rules section, anyway...

[Cactus]

Page 418 in the hardback edition, between the templates and the game summary.

[pueriexdeus]

Thanks

[cypherthefallenangel]

Has anyone tried telekinesis(psych scream) or pyro( fire breath) spells? Im interested in them and I was curious if they are any good.

[ForTheLion]

Has anyone tried telekinesis(psych scream) or pyro( fire breath) spells? Im interested in them and I was curious if they are any good.

 

Oh yes, i run my normal liby (power armor) with Prescience and Scream always, he usualy joins belial and his command squad of dooming thundernators...they are a deathstar as well as a soaking unit. Always deployed up front where their soaking can work. I usualy end up using presc as you can guess but when i play against armies like nids (got loads of em) and other power armored armies i will always go for a scream, as the average of 3 dice is 9 and most things got LD 6-7...in fact my my best moment was when my libye managed to pull a psychic test near a swarmlord (shadows) and killed him without doing anything....swarmlord rolled like 14 on ld test! Still this is very situational

 

OP:

A liby has made it into my always bring list, alongside belial and a cyclone missile in each DW squad! Placement is key, as he dont got no invulnerable save. Im sure that just like chaos were gna get our own psychic powers in the new codesx thats said to be coming this december

[Ronin_eX]

I quite like terminator librarians with Prescience powers. It makes a great buff for a shooty Deathwing squad. And remember folks, at 2000 points we are no longer limited to merely 2 HQ slots. So long as you are already running 4+ DW squads at around that level you need not have to choose between a Librarian and a Chaplain. Being effectively ML1 is downside, but I find that so long as you aren't taking the actual Dark Angels powers they are still quite useful.

[Tamwulf]

Very interesting stuff here. Thanks for sharing everyone. It really kinda sucks that the best we can muster is a level 1 Psyker. I was really hoping the FAQ would change that.

 

The fact that we have access to Divination powers is what really makes it worthwhile. Without that, I'd be kinda hard pressed to really include one in a DA list.

 

The few replies here have the Libby attached to a real shooty unit. Has anyone thought about attaching one to a Devastator Squad behind an Aegis Defense line? I've been playing around with a C:SM army and using Aegis Defense Lines and Combat Squad Devastators. The Sergeant with his Auspex along with the four Lascannons standing next to the Quadautocannon, and the other five guys running out front. I can just imagine what a Libby with reroll dice powers would be like in the unit behind a 3++ cover save. Is that even possible with the DA? Wish I had my DA Codex... kinda out of town ATM.

 

Here's a question I wish I could answer, but again, no rule book access. Can a Libby use his powers on a transport he's embarked on? Say, a Termy Libby in a Crusader? I can see using that power on the Crusader, and just ripping up an enemy squad, while the DW Squad and Libby assault another unit. Feasible? Lot's of points, but I'd think highly effective with the current DA Meta.

 

I'm planning on fielding Ezikel with a unit of Gunslingers (DA Vets with plasma pistols and bolt pistols) in a drop pod this weekend. Should be fun!

[Jehoel]

The few replies here have the Libby attached to a real shooty unit. Has anyone thought about attaching one to a Devastator Squad behind an Aegis Defense line? I've been playing around with a C:SM army and using Aegis Defense Lines and Combat Squad Devastators. The Sergeant with his Auspex along with the four Lascannons standing next to the Quadautocannon, and the other five guys running out front. I can just imagine what a Libby with reroll dice powers would be like in the unit behind a 3++ cover save. Is that even possible with the DA? Wish I had my DA Codex... kinda out of town ATM.

Well, DA doesn't have access to the Signum and I would go with three Missile Launchers and a Lascannon (less of a point sink ;) ), but otherwise we can do that.

[elphilo]

Here's a question I wish I could answer, but again, no rule book access. Can a Libby use his powers on a transport he's embarked on? Say, a Termy Libby in a Crusader? I can see using that power on the Crusader, and just ripping up an enemy squad, while the DW Squad and Libby assault another unit. Feasible? Lot's of points, but I'd think highly effective with the current DA Meta.

 

The Libby can indeed target the transport he is embarked on. ;)

[Apahllo]

Very interesting stuff here. Thanks for sharing everyone. It really kinda sucks that the best we can muster is a level 1 Psyker. I was really hoping the FAQ would change that.

 

I'm planning on fielding Ezikel with a unit of Gunslingers (DA Vets with plasma pistols and bolt pistols) in a drop pod this weekend. Should be fun!

I believe the reason gw didn't give DA a lvl 2 is because the codex states all of the librarians (including Ezekiel) can only use 1 a turn, and I don't think faqs are for changing rules but rather clarifying or altering. A hard upgrade would be little out landish. Although I'd love to use scream and divination primus power(forgot what it's called)

 

I have don't this before!! The 10 plasma pistols and bolt pistols. Did famously well, I fact I decided to add azreal to the squad and give them all a 4+ inv.

 

Cypher squad ftw!!!!!!